POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Republicans all circling the wagons defending Trump. This is why they get elected.

We are about to test a long-held conviction on the left that the right is only able to get elected because they have been able to wall off their middle class voters, with whom they calmly discuss economic freedom, from their nutbars to whom fulminate promises of religious, ethnic, and racial purification.

Now everybody knows about everybody else. We have always thought that when conservatives with human decency understood the beast in their basement they would punish the GOP.

We shall see.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

We are about to test a long-held conviction on the left that the right is only able to get elected because they have been able to wall off their middle class voters, with whom they calmly discuss economic freedom, from their nutbars to whom fulminate promises of religious, ethnic, and racial purification.

Now everybody knows about everybody else. We have always thought that when conservatives with human decency understood the beast in their basement they would punish the GOP.

We shall see.

Given the way Ryan is fellating Trump, I have no doubt that theory is wrong.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Given the way Ryan is fellating Trump, I have no doubt that theory is wrong.

What makes you think Ryan has anything to do with conservatives with human decency? Have you seen his budgets?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

What makes you think Ryan has anything to do with conservatives with human decency? Have you seen his budgets?

Ok, give me a decent one? I haven't hear one yet. The two that are fighting Trump the most right now are McCain and Graham and I wouldn't call either of them human decency either.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

But of course a sizeable portion of this country thinks it's "going too far" or "nutty" when they can't prevent gay people from getting married or when a cop can't just shoot a black person because they're inherently scary.

Part of going nutty about absurd things is keeping the front line away from important things. If we stop fighting for university safe spaces we'll be fighting lynchings and mosque burnings. Better to fight the morons on their turf than ours.

You have to pick your battles. Some comment on Twitter isnt worth it. Shaming only backs people into a corner which makes them lash out more. People dont want to live on the campus of PCU ("We're Not Gonna Protest!" ) unless they are so far left even Bernie is a centrist.

The PC movement has been in full force for a while...it isnt helping anything. When Twitter explodes because 10k white people **** their pants cause Jerry Seinfeld said "Black's Live Matter" (cause he was interviewing Lewis Black for his show) all you are doing is alienating everyone except those who fall in line. Shouting down those who disagree with you is no better just because you are standing up for a minority.

Pick the battles you can win and accomplish your goals. Stop trying to one up each other in the "which of us white folk can protect the most of them others?!?!?" Infantalizing those you deem worthy of your protection only makes it worse for everyone.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

I think what Drew is saying is that in the 60s rather than busing people down south to help with the marches, we should have bused people up and have them live in the north because boycotts never work.

There's a difference between peacefully boycotting and violently rioting.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Never change, man.

No offense Kepler but he is closer to right than you want to admit. People werent ready to be told what to believe or how they are supposed to act. I am as pro rights as you can get but even I felt a lot of places were pushing where no pushing was needed. The law of unintended consequences bit all of us in the butt...over an issue that wasnt an issue. No one was going to be policing the bathrooms and no court would have gone after someone for being in the wrong bathroom...after a month no one would have noticed or cared. (I saw it firsthand and I work at a liberal school in a liberal state)

 

[Spartanforlife4]

There's a difference between peacefully boycotting and violently rioting.

Moving the ACC title, NBA All star game and Bruce Springsteen concerts is violent?

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Ok, give me a decent one? I haven't hear one yet. The two that are fighting Trump the most right now are McCain and Graham and I wouldn't call either of them human decency either.

Pols don't count, they aren't humans. I'm talking about people -- voters -- neighbors. There are plenty; the vast majority of even Trump voters are people of conscience. Hitherto they have been uninformed and misinformed. Nobody is uninformed now -- we're literally in the streets. Granted, the Echo Chamber has them pretty misinformed, but as this administration pops the Republican Zit of "malevolence tempered by ineptitude" that has been steadily growing larger and more infected since the 1960s all over the face of America, even the dullest witted Republican voter is going to notice, "Hey -- it's not morning in America after all!"

The shills will lie, the slaves will swallow the lies, but there are millions of intelligent and decent conservatives in the US who will reject the hateful troll in the White House, the Nazis in the Tea Party, and the cowardly opportunists in the RNC. They may not come to us, but they aint gonna stay there. They will most likely just stay home and hope for a tornado to clean their Augean stables.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

1. A Democrat was elected governor.
2. The State lost millions (possibly billions) of dollars in revenus.

I guess you're right. No difference.

That democrat barely won despite the lost money. And that slim majority sure didnt vote for President as I believe NC went Red.

 

[MaizeRage]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

No offense Kepler but he is closer to right than you want to admit. People werent ready to be told what to believe or how they are supposed to act. I am as pro rights as you can get but even I felt a lot of places were pushing where no pushing was needed. The law of unintended consequences bit all of us in the butt...over an issue that wasnt an issue. No one was going to be policing the bathrooms and no court would have gone after someone for being in the wrong bathroom...after a month no one would have noticed or cared. (I saw it firsthand and I work at a liberal school in a liberal state)

Area Man Maybe Willing to Give People Rights When He Feels Like It

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Oh, there's one other issue to keep in mind: In the 60's, if you gave the protesters a microphone, they had something pertinent to say and would result in an honest debate. Today, if you give most of them a microphone, they'll either run away, or give the same talking point they've been fed and THEN run away after challenging it.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

That democrat barely won despite the lost money. And that slim majority sure didnt vote for President as I believe NC went Red.

And Chris Matthews responded "Well that's a *****..."

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Pols don't count, they aren't humans. I'm talking about people -- voters -- neighbors. There are plenty; the vast majority of even Trump voters are people of conscience. Hitherto they have been uninformed and misinformed. Nobody is uninformed now -- we're literally in the streets. Granted, the Echo Chamber has them pretty penned up, but as this administration pops the Republican Zit of "malevolence tempered by ineptitude" that has been steadily growing larger and more infected since the 1960s, all over the face of America, even the dullest witted Republican voter is going to notice, "Hey -- it's not morning in America after all!"

The shills will lie, the slaves will swallow the lies, but there are millions of intelligent and decent conservatives in the US who will reject the hateful troll in the White House, the Nazis in the Tea Party, and the cowardly opportunists in the RNC. They may not come to us, but they aint gonna stay there. They will most likely just stay home and hope for a tornado to clean their Augean stables.

Trump didn't overhwhelm the voting booth. There is not a single vote that was cast for Trump that's coming the other direction. This myth of the "independent voter" and the supposed massive amounts of Trump voters that voted for Obama is fools gold.

They may reject but they won't vote Democratic.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

That democrat barely won despite the lost money. And that slim majority sure didnt vote for President as I believe NC went Red.

Yes, and we know the answer to that. The Republican vote totals didn't change. The ***** whiny Democrats didn't like their nominee so they threw the country in the ****ter.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

You realize that this type of conversation is why the Dems have issues in Middle America right? If you assume everyone who doesnt agree with you is a racist/sexist/homophobic idiot hellbent on destroying the country and who cant hold a candle to your intelligence all while shouting them down the second they dare say anything you are destined to lose. In fact you are being as dismissive and divisive as the people you rail against. How did that work in November?

And before we hear again how it was all Hillary's fault...whither those Dem Governors? What happened in the local elections? How long has the map been shifting Red on the local level? Scooby you should know this you have been saying it for months.

 

[MaizeRage]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

I'd rather be right.

But how has appeasement worked out for your people?

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Yes, and we know the answer to that. The Republican vote totals didn't change. The ***** whiny Democrats didn't like their nominee so they threw the country in the ****ter.

True...which goes back to my original point...fight the fights worth fighting. Instead of the Bernie Bros and the #NeverHillarys fighting it out in the public election (after they lost legitimately) with the Clintonistas they should have sucked it up and done it the right way. Instead they wanted to prove a point...well they proved it! The Republicans were divided until it came down to their time in the voting booth and then, surprise surprise they got the same amount of votes they always do.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

You realize that this type of conversation is why the Dems have issues in Middle America right? If you assume everyone who doesnt agree with you is a racist/sexist/homophobic idiot hellbent on destroying the country and who cant hold a candle to your intelligence all while shouting them down the second they dare say anything you are destined to lose. In fact you are being as dismissive and divisive as the people you rail against. How did that work in November?

And before we hear again how it was all Hillary's fault...whither those Dem Governors? What happened in the local elections? How long has the map been shifting Red on the local level? Scooby you should know this you have been saying it for months.

Yes, I know. And it's not easy. And the reason it's not easy is they will vote for anyone with an R after their name. Democrats won't/don't do that. Never have. Democrats eat their young. Republicans nurture their misogynistic offspring and get them to the booth.

The only hope I have is that this time around people will learn and teach. Those of us who learned from Nader didn't teach the next generation very well. My kids are very knowledgeable in this area because I explained it to them.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: POTUS 45.2 - Same arguments, different sides

Moving the ACC title, NBA All star game and Bruce Springsteen concerts is violent?

There's more than just the Springsteen concerts, a whole list of performers refuse to play in NC until they change some of their laws. Corporations have been keeping close watch, refusing to open new locations there and instead started scouting other states. Those are real, steady jobs, not just event-type jobs.