Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

[Riley Seamus]

Re: Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

So if a team goes undefeated all year, wins every game by 5 goals, and then losses in their QF Conference tournament... they shouldn't get a bid? A season's resume isn't built on one game, good or bad.

If that was the case then you would have an argument. But that didn't happen an to be honest it's never going to happen so your analogy is a poor one. The whole NCAA program is based on one game scenarios. There are better teams that are deserving to be there than Williams. Plattsburgh two years ago lost in the semi finals of their conference and had been one of the best teams all year. They lost out because OF ONE GAME.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

If that was the case then you would have an argument. But that didn't happen an to be honest it's never going to happen so your analogy is a poor one. The whole NCAA program is based on one game scenarios. There are better teams that are deserving to be there than Williams. Plattsburgh two years ago lost in the semi finals of their conference and had been one of the best teams all year. They lost out because OF ONE GAME.

No, they didn't. Read the process...

 

[Ozz]

If that was the case then you would have an argument. But that didn't happen an to be honest it's never going to happen so your analogy is a poor one. The whole NCAA program is based on one game scenarios. There are better teams that are deserving to be there than Williams. Plattsburgh two years ago lost in the semi finals of their conference and had been one of the best teams all year. They lost out because OF ONE GAME.

Better by who's measure? You're subjective measure?

My analogy simply takes into account what you started... "No team deserved a bid when they lose in the manner that Williams did." Clearly the other 20+ games means nothing...

 

[Riley Seamus]

Re: Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

I don't disagree with you that part of the system is flawed, but this IS the system that all teams have played by. You keep harping on the Williams loss, yet it was probably the lack of tough competition this year (Fitchburg State, Canton, the down year for Norwich/Oswego) that kept Plattsburgh out of the dance. From what I gather running the numbers it was not against Williams, but actually against UWSP in which Plattsburgh was edged by the small margin (yet big when it comes to SOS). Plattsburgh lost just about every category to Williams. When you lose has nothing to do with it, just as it doesn't in ANY other NCAA playoff system. Look at March Madness....if Kansas doesn't win their league, it won't take them out of the conversation. One game (with regards to the NCAA Selection Committee) doesn't make a season, and honestly shouldn't. Hot goalie, 50-10 SOG....anything can happen in 1 game, don't ruin a perfect season over 1 game. What needs to happen is the NCAA needs to get their head out of their ..... and allow the multi-game playoffs and not penalize teams/conferences for doing it in their conference playoffs to ensure the best teams win. The old days it was a SERIES for even the National Title game. We would all love to see more Pool C bids as well, but this process is used in every sport, their not going to change it for just hockey...

I agree with you completely on having a playoff series format because usually the cream rises to the top. I keep using the Williams team as an example because if you lose to an unseeded, sub .500 team in the biggest game of the year for your team then yes that's your season. That precludes you from being considered for a bid plain and simple. There are other teams more deserving for that bid. Anyways....great insight and thanks for your posts.

 

[Ozz]

I agree with you completely on having a playoff series format because usually the cream rises to the top. I keep using the Williams team as an example because if you lose to an unseeded, sub .500 team in the biggest game of the year for your team then yes that's your season. That precludes you from being considered for a bid plain and simple. There are other teams more deserving for that bid. Anyways....great insight and thanks for your posts.

More deserving...like a team that lost 7-1 in the 'biggest game of the year for your team'?

 

[Riley Seamus]

Re: Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

Better by who's measure? You're subjective measure?

My analogy simply takes into account what you started... "No team deserved a bid when they lose in the manner that Williams did." Clearly the other 20+ games means nothing...

No......you used a fictional scenario that has nothing to do with what I am saying. If Williams had that year you stated then yes by all means the one game wouldn't be a factor. But they lost to an unseeded sub .500 team in their conference which had a total of 5 sub .500 team in it lol

 

[Riley Seamus]

Re: Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

More deserving...like a team that lost 7-1 in the 'biggest game of the year for your team'?

In the conference championship to a ranked team. Do you proof read your posts?

 

[Ozz]

You can't fix stu...stubborn.

You can argue all you want about the process and how it should be changed or not, but this year the Committee/NCAA should be applauded for applying the process correctly. The most deserving 3 teams received the at-large bids.

 

[Ozz]

In the conference championship to a ranked team. Do you proof read your posts?

I didn't realize you had the power to decide what kind of loss is an ok loss and which is unforgivable. I apologize.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

More deserving...like a team that lost 7-1 in the 'biggest game of the year for your team'?

+1 know where you're going with it lol

But in all seriousness (and not at you Ozz), back to 2013-2014....

Plattsburgh didn't get in NOT because they lost in their quarterfinal matchup, but because they lost in CRITERIA to Adrian, Geneseo, and Norwich (maybe jk) that year. We can moan and complain about the process and what not, but it's known well before the season starts on how the selections will be made. If you don't do enough in a season (don't tie Brockport x2, don't lose to Geneseo in Geneseo, don't schedule Fitchburg State, don't schedule Canton x2, don't get excited when Oswego and Norwich are losing games, or the best one yet...DON'T LOSE YOUR LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!) then NONE of this matters. Pick just about any ONE of those things and change it, and Plattsburgh has a better shot, especially the Geneseo ones.

Yes what Plattsburgh did to Williams was painful that night, but that game does not make or break Williams season, just as a 7-1 loss to Geneseo does not make or break Plattsburgh's. It's the WHOLE body of work....

 

[norm1909]

Re: Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

So if a team goes undefeated all year, wins every game by 5 goals, and then losses in their QF Conference tournament... they shouldn't get a bid? A season's resume isn't built on one game, good or bad.

This team was close to that.

They won their non-autobid Conference tournament - still didn't go. 27-1-1 and no show.

Scored 189 goals gave up 49
Beat the USA UNDER-18 Team 5-4.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

No......you used a fictional scenario that has nothing to do with what I am saying. If Williams had that year you stated then yes by all means the one game wouldn't be a factor. But they lost to an unseeded sub .500 team in their conference which had a total of 5 sub .500 team in it lol

And Plattsburgh lost 4 of the 5 Criteria used to select the teams....get over it. On top o that, it wasn't even between Plattsburgh and Williams. Williams was already in with a criteria win over UWSP. Plattsburgh lost on criteria to UWSP...

 

[Ozz]

This team was close to that.

They won their non-autobid Conference tournament - still didn't go. 27-1-1 and no show.

... and they should have been in IMO

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

This team was close to that.

They won their non-autobid Conference tournament - still didn't go. 27-1-1 and no show.

Perfect example of being beat out by the criteria. I remember all the Dawg fans crying over it....we tried to explain to them and they still didn't get it. a .500 RNK and a SOS that was beyond pathetic was not enough to overcome a good win %. I think Common Opponent was a loss for Adrian that year too... It didn't mean it was right, but its the criteria that everyone knows going in. Fair is fair....

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

... and they should have been in IMO

That's where the "criteria" becomes flawed. A great win % sure, but their SOS was sooooo low. RNK was at 1-1 if I remember right. IMO there just is not enough specific criteria. 5 is just not enough to determine a bid. Things need to be broken down more, or a simple formula used. SOS needs to be recalculated as well....

 

[Ozz]

That's where the "criteria" becomes flawed. A great win % sure, but their SOS was sooooo low. RNK was at 1-1 if I remember right. IMO there just is not enough specific criteria. 5 is just not enough to determine a bid. Things need to be broken down more, or a simple formula used. SOS needs to be recalculated as well....

I don't remember the exact numbers, but I just think the WIN was enough to overcome the difference in SOS. I do agree in more criteria though. I do not envy any group that has to make these decisions.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

I don't remember the exact numbers, but I just think the WIN was enough to overcome the difference in SOS. I do agree in more criteria though. I do not envy any group that has to make these decisions.

No, it was BAD. Like almost historic bad. The argument (right or wrong) was basically anyone with that schedule should have a decent record. Having said that, had they beaten Neumann both times, I think they would have been in (higher RNK and common opponents with Elmira who I think had the Pool C bid). H2H over Neumann.

 

[Riley Seamus]

Re: Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

I didn't realize you had the power to decide what kind of loss is an ok loss and which is unforgivable. I apologize.

Thats called an opinion.......no special powers here. The losses are completely different and in vastly different circumstances. Just stating facts. At the end of the day we will agree to disagree. As far as being stubborn you seem to have the same quality......

 

[Riley Seamus]

Re: Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

+1 know where you're going with it lol

But in all seriousness (and not at you Ozz), back to 2013-2014....

Plattsburgh didn't get in NOT because they lost in their quarterfinal matchup, but because they lost in CRITERIA to Adrian, Geneseo, and Norwich (maybe jk) that year. We can moan and complain about the process and what not, but it's known well before the season starts on how the selections will be made. If you don't do enough in a season (don't tie Brockport x2, don't lose to Geneseo in Geneseo, don't schedule Fitchburg State, don't schedule Canton x2, don't get excited when Oswego and Norwich are losing games, or the best one yet...DON'T LOSE YOUR LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!) then NONE of this matters. Pick just about any ONE of those things and change it, and Plattsburgh has a better shot, especially the Geneseo ones.

Yes what Plattsburgh did to Williams was painful that night, but that game does not make or break Williams season, just as a 7-1 loss to Geneseo does not make or break Plattsburgh's. It's the WHOLE body of work....

I agree with some of the body of work argument but c`mon losing to a ranked team in your conference championship is worse than losing to a sub .500 team that was never ranked in the QUARTER FINAL of your conference is better! lol what kool-ade are you drinking. With that loss alone Williams should`t have even been in the conversation for a bid making any criteria argument a mute point. Therefore Plattsburgh would be in.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Plattsburgh State Hockey 2015-16 - Bob's 27th work in progress ...

I agree with some of the body of work argument but c`mon losing to a ranked team in your conference championship is worse than losing to a sub .500 team that was never ranked in the QUARTER FINAL of your conference is better! lol what kool-ade are you drinking. With that loss alone Williams should`t have even been in the conversation for a bid making any criteria argument a mute point. Therefore Plattsburgh would be in.

Dude are you that dense or can you not comprehend reading? It doesn't freakn matter what you or I think of Williams. The CRITERIA is the only FREAKN argument. How hard is that to understand? Learn the freakn process. You're starting to sound like a whinny little teenage girl who didn't get to go to the prom with the quarterback. PLATTSBURGH DIDN'T GET LEFT OUT BECAUSE THEY LOST TO GENESEO ALONE! Had Williams played a ranked team in their quarter-final, they still would have beaten Plattsburgh in criteria, you know...that thing which is the ONLY thing that matters....