gopheritall
New member
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
**** CCHA. The NCAA should take away their autobid after this crap!
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riverchief1
New member
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
LOL. The CCHA won't go out quietly, extending its life.
LOL. The CCHA won't go out quietly, extending its life.
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
which if going by the rules means there would be no autobid from the CCHA... that would be awesome... especially since they're making us wait so freaking long.
which if going by the rules means there would be no autobid from the CCHA... that would be awesome... especially since they're making us wait so freaking long.
brassbonanza
Super Serial
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
They could do the calculation based upon each of the two possible outcomes of the CCHA title game, just like Priceless has been doing before late games in Alaska.
They could do the calculation based upon each of the two possible outcomes of the CCHA title game, just like Priceless has been doing before late games in Alaska.
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
The selection show wouldn't be the point after which the conference effectively forfeits its automatic qualifier; it's happened a couple of times in the past in basketball that I can remember where a conference tournament has not finished by the time the selection show had to go to air (and ISTR one time it was the SEC champion that hadn't been determined yet), and the brackets shown on there had some "slashes" in a seeded bracket position wherein the two teams playing in a conference championship, that would likely have ended in the same seed band regardless of what the result was, were shown.
If the game does not conclude before 11:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time on Sunday, March 17th, 2013, they *might*...(continues below).
I quoted it in the other thread:
(a) Conference competition must be conducted in the applicable sport and the conference champion in that sport must be determined not later than the date on which participants are selected for the NCAA championship, either by regular in-season conference competition or a conference meet or tournament, as indicated at the time of application. If a conference’s competition to determine its automatic qualifier is unexpectedly terminated (e.g., due to inclement weather), the conference may designate its qualifier, provided it has established objective criteria for making that designation and has communicated that information to the appropriate sports committee by a specified deadline. (Revised: 8/13/93)
So it very well could be the case that if the CCHA final were to stretch until after midnight (and thus being on a new day), they could lose the bid. That being said (a) if the game is scheduled to start at 2:05, it's not likely to take ten hours before the game is decided (not likely, but plausible), (b) the NCAA is probably likely to take the delay into account, and hold off on ultimately deciding until the CCHA game concluded (since it's not like the CCHA planned for the game to take ten hours long).
The selection show wouldn't be the point after which the conference effectively forfeits its automatic qualifier; it's happened a couple of times in the past in basketball that I can remember where a conference tournament has not finished by the time the selection show had to go to air (and ISTR one time it was the SEC champion that hadn't been determined yet), and the brackets shown on there had some "slashes" in a seeded bracket position wherein the two teams playing in a conference championship, that would likely have ended in the same seed band regardless of what the result was, were shown.
If the game does not conclude before 11:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time on Sunday, March 17th, 2013, they *might*...(continues below).
I quoted it in the other thread:
(a) Conference competition must be conducted in the applicable sport and the conference champion in that sport must be determined not later than the date on which participants are selected for the NCAA championship, either by regular in-season conference competition or a conference meet or tournament, as indicated at the time of application. If a conference’s competition to determine its automatic qualifier is unexpectedly terminated (e.g., due to inclement weather), the conference may designate its qualifier, provided it has established objective criteria for making that designation and has communicated that information to the appropriate sports committee by a specified deadline. (Revised: 8/13/93)
So it very well could be the case that if the CCHA final were to stretch until after midnight (and thus being on a new day), they could lose the bid. That being said (a) if the game is scheduled to start at 2:05, it's not likely to take ten hours before the game is decided (not likely, but plausible), (b) the NCAA is probably likely to take the delay into account, and hold off on ultimately deciding until the CCHA game concluded (since it's not like the CCHA planned for the game to take ten hours long).
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
Also remember, though, that the basketball selection is still subjective. They could very well say SEC winner and SEC loser for two of the spots. Because hockey is entirely mathematical, you can't exactly do that.
Also remember, though, that the basketball selection is still subjective. They could very well say SEC winner and SEC loser for two of the spots. Because hockey is entirely mathematical, you can't exactly do that.
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
I know it would never happen, but I would love to see hoops go entirely mathmatical. I'd be curious to see if high mid-majors get more bids. They will already get quite a few this year with the A-10 and Mountain West.
I know it would never happen, but I would love to see hoops go entirely mathmatical. I'd be curious to see if high mid-majors get more bids. They will already get quite a few this year with the A-10 and Mountain West.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
This thread has gotten harder to find since it got "sticky". I am used to seeing "sticky" threads that I ignore, about USCHO hiring and HOF nominations.
This thread has gotten harder to find since it got "sticky". I am used to seeing "sticky" threads that I ignore, about USCHO hiring and HOF nominations.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
If one could find a composite result data file, it could be massaged into the same form as the hockey one is.
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
I always use the "thread tools" on the right above the top post to add and manage subscribed threads. The list of subscribed can be accessed by the "quick links" just above that and center-left
This thread has gotten harder to find since it got "sticky". I am used to seeing "sticky" threads that I ignore, about USCHO hiring and HOF nominations.
I always use the "thread tools" on the right above the top post to add and manage subscribed threads. The list of subscribed can be accessed by the "quick links" just above that and center-left
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
My recollection being potentially faulty is a possibility, but I also recall neither team would have failed to make it as an at-large, so the only thing it *might* have changed was seeding. Other leagues at the low-end of things were simply slotted in such that the only thing that mattered in the long run was the identity of the team filling that #16 slot.
The broader point being, the NCAA will likely know going into Sunday almost everything they need to know to seed and bracket the tournament, to the point that it barely matters what the CCHA final result is. For example, if it's a Miami/WMU final, there may not be much difference in where people go. Slot in a Miami-Bowling Green final, and all you have to do is an if/then with whoever ends up being "last in"; Bowling Green-Michigan State? Then it literally doesn't matter.
My recollection being potentially faulty is a possibility, but I also recall neither team would have failed to make it as an at-large, so the only thing it *might* have changed was seeding. Other leagues at the low-end of things were simply slotted in such that the only thing that mattered in the long run was the identity of the team filling that #16 slot.
The broader point being, the NCAA will likely know going into Sunday almost everything they need to know to seed and bracket the tournament, to the point that it barely matters what the CCHA final result is. For example, if it's a Miami/WMU final, there may not be much difference in where people go. Slot in a Miami-Bowling Green final, and all you have to do is an if/then with whoever ends up being "last in"; Bowling Green-Michigan State? Then it literally doesn't matter.
brassbonanza
Super Serial
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
But at the same time, because the PWR is completely mathematical, if the theoretical CCHA championship game went to 10 OT's, and into the selection show, they could create two brackets and say, if the result is this, here's the bracket, if the result is this, here's the bracket. ESPN sure as hell isn't going to wait for the CCHA game to finish, and I can't imagine the NCAA is terribly thrilled that the CCHA moved their game to Sunday, either so I can't imagine them saying sure, we'll push back our selection show to midnight!
But at the same time, because the PWR is completely mathematical, if the theoretical CCHA championship game went to 10 OT's, and into the selection show, they could create two brackets and say, if the result is this, here's the bracket, if the result is this, here's the bracket. ESPN sure as hell isn't going to wait for the CCHA game to finish, and I can't imagine the NCAA is terribly thrilled that the CCHA moved their game to Sunday, either so I can't imagine them saying sure, we'll push back our selection show to midnight!
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
The guy that does the DOS based sim games usually computes a pair wise for other sports... IIRC, it ain't pretty
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
Here we go...
http://www.dolphinsim.com/ratings/ncaa_mbb/
Here we go...
http://www.dolphinsim.com/ratings/ncaa_mbb/
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
In what sense isn't it pretty? I would think that in many cases the common opponent criteria would rely on just one or two games which wouldn't be good, but RPI and TUC should be similar to hockey. Am I wrong?.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Pairwise and Bracketology 2013 Edition
I wonder what he is doing to get his Pairwise. It can't be the same as what we call PWR since he gets values for teams with RPI<.5.
I wonder what he is doing to get his Pairwise. It can't be the same as what we call PWR since he gets values for teams with RPI<.5.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Patman
Rodent of Unusual Size
And I'm not saying somebody else couldn't do it... If you have PWR coded up then its just a matter of processing a different set of team names.
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As to the other comment, I've seen it in the past and I think when I did look at it, it was a bit messed up, IIRC.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
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