Open Wheel Racing 2021, anyone there to watch?

[Russell Jaslow]

I thought it was Liberty : FIA :: ESPN : MLB

No.

Liberty sells the sport. FIA polices the sport.

 

[Kepler]

No.

Liberty sells the sport. FIA polices the sport.

Oh, Liberty is the promoter, not the media arm? I guess that makes sense -- Sky is the media arm.

Is there any analogy in American sports? The PGA maybe? Or WWE? (only somewhat joking)

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Oh, Liberty is the promoter, not the media arm? I guess that makes sense -- Sky is the media arm.

Is there any analogy in American sports? The PGA maybe? Or WWE? (only somewhat joking)

I can't think of one where the responsibilities of a sport are so clear cut divided between two entirely separate groups.

 

[Jimjamesak]

I can't think of one where the responsibilities of a sport are so clear cut divided between two entirely separate groups.

Most sports outside of North America have a similar setup to F1 where one entity controls the business side and a governing body controls the rules. Think soccer, cricket, rugby, even hockey outside North America.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Good ending to the race today. If only the race was one lap more or Lando hadn't skid twice on the one lap that lost him about 0.2 seconds.

Funny Sky projected a 100% chance of a safety car and although plenty of cars went into the gravel no one drew one. Although I'm surprised there wasn't one for Albon when he said his tire wasn't on correctly and was limping around the course.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Most sports outside of North America have a similar setup to F1 where one entity controls the business side and a governing body controls the rules. Think soccer, cricket, rugby, even hockey outside North America.

Interesting. Shows you how much I pay attention to the setup of European sports outside of F1 (and MotoGP).

 

[solovsfett]

Interesting!
https://racer.com/2024/05/23/mario-andretti-claims-liberty-ceo-personally-threatened-to-block-team/

I don’t give a damn who initiated the conversation the fact the Liberty Media CEO would say something that insane is going to have massive repercussions for the sport in america. Everyone loves Mario Andretti here. How dumb is the Liberty media CEO?

 

[Kepler]

Interesting!
https://racer.com/2024/05/23/mario-a...to-block-team/

I don’t give a damn who initiated the conversation the fact the Liberty Media CEO would say something that insane is going to have massive repercussions for the sport in america. Everyone loves Mario Andretti here. How dumb is the Liberty media CEO?

I don't understand any of this. It seems like the Andretti/Cadillac F1 team would be a license to print infinite money for everyone involved. Just tell them to pay a trillion dollars to the other teams for dilution. Or just buy Gene out and fold the embarHassment.

This violates every rule of greed I understand to be the root for "civilized" human behavior since Adam Smith. I don't get it.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

I don't understand any of this. It seems like the Andretti/Cadillac F1 team would be a license to print infinite money for everyone involved. Just tell them to pay a trillion dollars to the other teams for dilution. Or just buy Gene out and fold the embarHassment.

This violates every rule of greed I understand to be the root for "civilized" human behavior since Adam Smith. I don't get it.

I believe the expansion price goes way up in 2028. As they say in Spaceballs, “we’re not just doing this for money. We’re doing it for a shit load of money!”

 

[MichVandal]

I don't understand any of this. It seems like the Andretti/Cadillac F1 team would be a license to print infinite money for everyone involved. Just tell them to pay a trillion dollars to the other teams for dilution. Or just buy Gene out and fold the embarHassment.

This violates every rule of greed I understand to be the root for "civilized" human behavior since Adam Smith. I don't get it.

I think they are more concerned that the income won’t increase by 10% to make sure everyone else makes more money. For sure Cadillac brings nothing significant to f1, since it’s even a bit player in the US, let alone nothing special in Europe. And that also goes for GM, since they don’t have any brands in the EU anymore. F1 is far bigger in the EU than the US, so the increase in the US has to be pretty massive to cover the increase of teams.

Can’t look at this dispute from an only US perspective.

As for Andretti the name, does it help Indycar? Maybe a little, but, again, they are more like AJ Foyt, meaning they are a name from the past. It would be a good story if they won Indycar, but given Indycars struggles, it would not make a lasting impression. So how can one reasonably expect a name from the 70’s to have enough impact to make everyone money? There are a handful of former drivers who could do it- all of them multiple champions.

 

[solovsfett]

I think they are more concerned that the income won’t increase by 10% to make sure everyone else makes more money. For sure Cadillac brings nothing significant to f1, since it’s even a bit player in the US, let alone nothing special in Europe. And that also goes for GM, since they don’t have any brands in the EU anymore. F1 is far bigger in the EU than the US, so the increase in the US has to be pretty massive to cover the increase of teams.

Can’t look at this dispute from an only US perspective.

As for Andretti the name, does it help Indycar? Maybe a little, but, again, they are more like AJ Foyt, meaning they are a name from the past. It would be a good story if they won Indycar, but given Indycars struggles, it would not make a lasting impression. So how can one reasonably expect a name from the 70’s to have enough impact to make everyone money? There are a handful of former drivers who could do it- all of them multiple champions.

I would debate the point about Mario being a name from the past. His name resonates and will reverberate in the popular culture long after he’s gone. He’s a bench mark (Won an F1 title, won an INDY 500, won INDYCAR series title, won Daytona 500 and other stock car races, won dirt track races, etc). He’s been named dropped
in more hip hop songs than John Gotti.

his name is synonymous with speed as well as class. And when he speaks people on both sides of the Atlantic listen.

this comment from Liberty Media’s CEO is going to cost F1 in the short and long run if he doesn’t walk them back.

GM may mean nothing in Europe but they sure as hell have an enormous footprint in the U.S. and that footprint could easily grow the sport of F1 here far beyond what they’ve ever had previously and what they have currently.

think a GM commercial with Mario Andretti and Kyle Larson in friendly competition wouldn’t bring a huge spotlight to F1 here?

 

[Russell Jaslow]

I would debate the point about Mario being a name from the past. His name resonates and will reverberate in the popular culture long after he’s gone. He’s a bench mark (Won an F1 title, won an INDY 500, won INDYCAR series title, won Daytona 500 and other stock car races, won dirt track races, etc). He’s been named dropped
in more hip hop songs than John Gotti.

his name is synonymous with speed as well as class. And when he speaks people on both sides of the Atlantic listen.

this comment from Liberty Media’s CEO is going to cost F1 in the short and long run if he doesn’t walk them back.

I agree with this. Whatever the truth is behind that conversation, the American public will believe Mario long before they believe any CEO. This has become a bad PR scenario for Liberty Media. You don't pick a fight with Mario and expect to get away with it.

 

[MichVandal]

I would debate the point about Mario being a name from the past. His name resonates and will reverberate in the popular culture long after he’s gone. He’s a bench mark (Won an F1 title, won an INDY 500, won INDYCAR series title, won Daytona 500 and other stock car races, won dirt track races, etc). He’s been named dropped
in more hip hop songs than John Gotti.

his name is synonymous with speed as well as class. And when he speaks people on both sides of the Atlantic listen.

this comment from Liberty Media’s CEO is going to cost F1 in the short and long run if he doesn’t walk them back.

GM may mean nothing in Europe but they sure as hell have an enormous footprint in the U.S. and that footprint could easily grow the sport of F1 here far beyond what they’ve ever had previously and what they have currently.

think a GM commercial with Mario Andretti and Kyle Larson in friendly competition wouldn’t bring a huge spotlight to F1 here?

In the US only. So the F1 growth due to the team has to be huge in the US to cover the dilution of payments.

And that’s the rub.

Names don’t mean much in F1 otherwise Prost F1 and Stewart F1 would have gone a lot farther. Let alone Senna’s nephews and Fittapald…. The only offshoot names that ever accomplished anything was Villenuve
and Hill.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

In the US only. So the F1 growth due to the team has to be huge in the US to cover the dilution of payments.

And that’s the rub.

Names don’t mean much in F1 otherwise Prost F1 and Stewart F1 would have gone a lot farther. Let alone Senna’s nephews and Fittapald…. The only offshoot names that ever accomplished anything was Villenuve
and Hill.

I agree with you except your last sentence doesn't mean anything. We are not talking driving talent. We are talking business brand. Names mean something in a business brand (until they fail, like the examples you give), and can be parlayed into money, if done right.

But what I'm really referring to is LM CEO getting into a p*ss*ing contest with Mario. That's a bad take for LM. A very bad take, regardless of whether Andretti F1 would succeed or whether LM was right to reject them or how different Michael is from his father. LM can't win that battle (in America).

 

[MichVandal]

I agree with you except your last sentence doesn't mean anything. We are not talking driving talent. We are talking business brand. Names mean something in a business brand (until they fail, like the examples you give), and can be parlayed into money, if done right.

But what I'm really referring to is LM CEO getting into a p*ss*ing contest with Mario. That's a bad take for LM. A very bad take, regardless of whether Andretti F1 would succeed or whether LM was right to reject them or how different Michael is from his father. LM can't win that battle (in America).

But everyone is banking on the “Andretti” brand. And given the past decade of performance, that’s it- the name and the aura of Mario.

Can’t really say much about the fight between Liberty and Mario. We got one side, and one interpretation of what was said.

 

[Kepler]

Names don’t mean much in F1 otherwise Prost F1 and Stewart F1 would have gone a lot farther. Let alone Senna’s nephews and Fittapald…. The only offshoot names that ever accomplished anything was Villenuve
and Hill.

I thought Williams was an offshoot name? And McLaren?

Too bad Adrian Newey doesn't start a constructor team.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Can’t really say much about the fight between Liberty and Mario. We got one side, and one interpretation of what was said.

This is the only thing I'm commenting on. I don't care about the rest. Heck, I agree with most of what you say about the rest. But for this, I'll say it again. It doesn't matter which side we get or the interpretation or what was said. Mario wins this battle before the first shot is fired. Hands down.

 

[MichVandal]

I thought Williams was an offshoot name? And McLaren?

Too bad Adrian Newey doesn't start a constructor team.

Sure, but neither team were given wins and championships. Willams barely held on with just the name. And had to be sold with the stipulation that the name stays.

 

[MichVandal]

This is the only thing I'm commenting on. I don't care about the rest. Heck, I agree with most of what you say about the rest. But for this, I'll say it again. It doesn't matter which side we get or the interpretation or what was said. Mario wins this battle before the first shot is fired. Hands down.

As much as I like Mario, not to me. I’d like to know more, like why does congress care all of a sudden?

 

[Jimjamesak]

As much as I like Mario, not to me. I’d like to know more, like why does congress care all of a sudden?

Because GM is lobbying and Liberty Media is already on Congress’s s- list over Ticketmaster and Live Nation (they own both) so this gives Congress another reason to attack them.