Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

So the owners rejected the concept of the 3 aero kits for next year, and it appears by default Dallara will supply everyone. I don't see why they would only want 1 supplier in 2012. The kits are to cost the same no matter who makes it, so it isn't like they are saving money. One thought was Chevy didn't want to do it in 2012, so Penske was against it, but the vote was 15-0, not 1-14.

What I don't understand is why are the owner's dictating what is going on here? If Bernard sets up a set of rules they don't like, tough crap. Go race somewhere else. The owners still carry around too much power. Bernard needs to take a stand right here right now. The pole on SPEED TV was 92% in favor of using the kits.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

Finally got to see an F1 race live. Vettel won from the green- never really in much doubt.

Weber got second from the same position, but he had to work from it- Alonso made it quite interesting. On that note- where did the Ferrari come from? Well, one. Masa didn't really do much.

Hamilton got in the wrong postion in turn 4 at the start when he tried to pass Weber, and ended up having to really overcome a lot of stuff to get back to 4th. Two big "if"s really cloud some good driving.

Rosberg took Button late in the race for 5th and 6th.

Love the passing, so I'm torn with the kers and wing thing- I still think that they could do similar things by forcing metal brakes and real valve springs- at least to the point in finding some variablility.... But for now- good wheel to wheel racing without real incident. Well, save for Michael- who seemed to want to collect different tire marks.....

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I missed the race today...Is there any chance someone will slow Vettel's march to #2?

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

Very good race in Turkey. I love the KERS / DRS systems on the cars. They have brought some much needed passing to F1. I just wish someone could take the fight to Vettel. Nobody has anything for him right now and the fight for the win is nonexistent but at least the action behind him is excellent.

Looks like Ferrari, or at least Alonso, have made some improvements that I think take them up to the McLaren performance and past the Mercedes and Renaults. Despite the final results, it was also nice to see Williams make improvements also. I like Rubens and it was good to see him racing for some point up until the very end.

Oh, and I think we can officially put Alguersuari on his way out at STR. Not that it really matters but it's just a matter of time, maybe a race or two more, before he is let go.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

Finally got to see an F1 race live. Love the passing, so I'm torn with the kers and wing thing- I still think that they could do similar things by forcing metal brakes and real valve springs- at least to the point in finding some variablility.... But for now- good wheel to wheel racing without real incident.

I agree 100%. Contrived passing is better than no passing at all.

How did Massa end up so low? When we left for Church he was in the fight for 5th/6th.

Great to see Alonso get the red machine onto the podium.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I agree 100%. Contrived passing is better than no passing at all.

How did Massa end up so low? When we left for Church he was in the fight for 5th/6th.

Great to see Alonso get the red machine onto the podium.

Massa has pit stop problems and then he got stuck back behind some slower cars back around 12th or so.

I don't see what the problem some people (not just here) have with the KERS / DRS systems. For me F1 is all about technical innovation and those two systems certain are innovative. It's 1000 times better than pure spec racing.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

Massa has pit stop problems and then he got stuck back behind some slower cars back around 12th or so.

I don't see what the problem some people (not just here) have with the KERS / DRS systems. For me F1 is all about technical innovation and those two systems certain are innovative. It's 1000 times better than pure spec racing.

It would be better if a team/teams came up with the KERS/DRS on thier own to get an advantage, not as a part of a changed spec, kind of like the Red Bull diffusers last year, the Penske pushrod engine and the interesting exhaust ducting this year. On the other hand, the KERS and DRS came about because of techinical innovations in other areas. I do agree it's 1000 times better than spec racing.

It think it's cool this thread has more posts than the crapcar thread. Maybe there's hope for open wheel yet.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

It would be better if a team/teams came up with the KERS/DRS on thier own to get an advantage, not as a part of a changed spec, kind of like the Red Bull diffusers last year, the Penske pushrod engine and the interesting exhaust ducting this year. On the other hand, the KERS and DRS came about because of techinical innovations in other areas. I do agree it's 1000 times better than spec racing.

It think it's cool this thread has more posts than the crapcar thread. Maybe there's hope for open wheel yet.

The obvious problem with that is that it benefits one team at the expense of all of the rest. The 500 with the pushrods was boring, except for emmo crashing.

I do appreciate the rules stretching to get an advantage- I saw that the Red Bull guys may have shown some of their flex wing tech when Vettel crashed on Friday. Recall that they pass all of the requirements, but you can still see the front wing move on the track. And this is actually pretty questionable- the rule is clearly to prevent the wings from moving- either from flexing or whatever, but the measurement is not able to detect the Red Bull movement. So is that ilegal? Is it ok to break the intended rule if you can bypass the measurement? Ferrari did it with Mikey and the flex floor.....

KERS, I think, is intended as a image thing. Eh.... DRS is clearly to open up passing, but while it does that, I also think that the other passing opportunity- out braking, is not nearly as there since all of them run brakes that are so good and so consistent. Metal brake rotors, please.

New suggestions have the teams coming up with ideas that reduce downforce- one is the front wing, and a simpler rear wing, and the other is a fuel limit. Which limits the drag, and thus the possible downforce. I like the latter idea a lot- as it means two things- engines will have to become more efficient to make more power out of the fuel (that's a competetive advantage), and they will find better ways to make downforce without drag. It's an interesting prospect.

Oh, and F1 has admitted that Fox has proposed a buyout. So apparently the teams have reacted with their own bid. F1 says they are not for sale.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

Totally unimpressed with the concept cars that were revealed by Indycar.

Concept Cars

I can understand wanting to remove the ability to interlock wheels on the ovals, but on the road coarses? Also what is up with the rear wheel "fenders"? These are starting to look like a Crapcar without the front fenders.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

Totally unimpressed with the concept cars that were revealed by Indycar.

Concept Cars

I can understand wanting to remove the ability to interlock wheels on the ovals, but on the road coarses? Also what is up with the rear wheel "fenders"? These are starting to look like a Crapcar without the front fenders.

The rear fenders just look so out of place. They totally kill the aero, racey look of the rear end. The square rear wing on the roadcouse car is hidious. The rearwing on the oval car is neatly shaped, but the rear fender just makes the back end look so bad. The shark fin is also an ugly thing. That too just kills the swoopy aero look you want just behind the driver to the rear wing. The more I look at them, the more I hate them. The current car looks better than these.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

The rear fenders just look so out of place. They totally kill the aero, racey look of the rear end. The square rear wing on the roadcouse car is hidious. The rearwing on the oval car is neatly shaped, but the rear fender just makes the back end look so bad. The shark fin is also an ugly thing. That too just kills the swoopy aero look you want just behind the driver to the rear wing. The more I look at them, the more I hate them. The current car looks better than these.

these cars do indeed look lame.

FENDERS for the rear wheels? eff that.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

Big weekend coming up.

Kimi drives a truck - where will he finish? My gut tells me no better than 20th.
F1 - can Red Bull be stopped? No.
Indy Pole Day - I'm a Penske guy, I'm rooting for Power or Briscoe.
FYI Milka finished 15th in the ARCA race (out of 31), last car on the lead lap. 10 cars dnf, there were 3 cars 3 laps down, 16-19 place, which means she really finished 28th.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I think Kimi will finish in the Top 20. there's not as much talent there

F1 - Unfortunately I see no way Red Bull loses in 2011, which I'd be ok with if MW were winning

INDY - odds have to be on Power. beyond that it's a crapshoot I think. maybe a darkorse for pole would be a guy like Conway, or Kanaan but I really doubt it.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

wow. Nice job by Alex Tagliani and a great boost for Sam Schmidt motorsports, and a great story for the 500!

that opening lap will be VERY interesting with Dixon sandwhiched between 2 guys that are going to be hungry to make a big statement in Tags, and Servia.

Franchitti running out of fuel on a qualifying lap anywhere is inexcusable. at INDY? someone's getting fired. that was a joke.

Kimi finishes 15th in trucks. not bad. with so little practice time it's heartening. I wonder now if Busch is being coy about racinging him next week in Nationwide

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

wow. Nice job by Alex Tagliani and a great boost for Sam Schmidt motorsports, and a great story for the 500!

that opening lap will be VERY interesting with Dixon sandwhiched between 2 guys that are going to be hungry to make a big statement in Tags, and Servia.

Franchitti running out of fuel on a qualifying lap anywhere is inexcusable. at INDY? someone's getting fired. that was a joke.

Kimi finishes 15th in trucks. not bad. with so little practice time it's heartening. I wonder now if Busch is being coy about racinging him next week in Nationwide

That was fun to watch! Heck of a job for Tags and Sam Sdhmidt Motorsports. Man.

(and opposite for TCG- one car ran out of fuel with a lap to go, the other lost the pole loosing fuel pressure in turn four.. DOH).

Should be fun tomorrow- start with the Spanish GP, and end with bump day.

RBR is WAY out in front in Spain, BTW. Stunning)

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

That was fun to watch! Heck of a job for Tags and Sam Sdhmidt Motorsports. Man.

(and opposite for TCG- one car ran out of fuel with a lap to go, the other lost the pole loosing fuel pressure in turn four.. DOH).

Should be fun tomorrow- start with the Spanish GP, and end with bump day.

RBR is WAY out in front in Spain, BTW. Stunning)

YES! Mark Webber on pole!

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

YES! Mark Webber on pole!

First time a pole taker didn't take a race on the Catalyna track. Great start for Alonso- taking Hamilton, Vettel, and Weber to lead the race going into 1, and stayed there until the first pits. Oddly enough, he just drifted backward from there- back to 5th, where he qualified, a lap down. I'm ok with that.

Hamilton made a race of it, kept within a second of Vettel for the last few laps, but just couldn't make the pass- couldn't even make a serious attempt. But considering the distance the RBR's were to McLaren, being that close was darned great. Button made the most of his tire saving talent to take 3rd. Vettel.. wow.

One of the great drives of the race was Heidfiled, who went from last to 8th.

Keeping an eye on Indy right now- it's raining. So far, only two have qualified today.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

GRRRRRRRR! Vettel. ****it.


INDY - WOW! Marco bumps out Hunter-Reay, and Mike Conway fails to make it in. So Andretti Autosport with 2 in and 2 out. that's really...inexcusable for a top team, but if it happened to Penske several years ago, it can happen to anyone.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

INDY - WOW! Marco bumps out Hunter-Reay, and Mike Conway fails to make it in. So Andretti Autosport with 2 in and 2 out. that's really...inexcusable for a top team, but if it happened to Penske several years ago, it can happen to anyone.

Yea, I was wondering about Andretti.

How can they be so bad at Indy- last year they had problems, too- didn't TK start at the back?

Marco- you could see the anguish in him while they waited. But he sure had the speed. Too bad Hunter-Reay didn't have a chance to use that. Conway- win a race miss teh 500.. oops. Who would have figured Danica would be the team leader.

Bummer for Matos- the announcers mentioned that they may not have enough money to finish the season.

Four women, again, with rookie Pipa Mann and Ana Beatriz finishing out the field.

Far more impressive is team owner Sarah Fisher, who put a driver in the chase for the pole. Well done Carpenter.

But so far, still the steal of the season belongs to Tags, who took team members from Andretti's cast offs. Apparently they knew what they were doing....

Now the hard part- finding time to make a race set up in between the showers this area is supposed to get all week.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

Yea, I was wondering about Andretti.

How can they be so bad at Indy- last year they had problems, too- didn't TK start at the back?

Marco- you could see the anguish in him while they waited. But he sure had the speed. Too bad Hunter-Reay didn't have a chance to use that. Conway- win a race miss teh 500.. oops. Who would have figured Danica would be the team leader.

Bummer for Matos- the announcers mentioned that they may not have enough money to finish the season.

Four women, again, with rookie Pipa Mann and Ana Beatriz finishing out the field.

Far more impressive is team owner Sarah Fisher, who put a driver in the chase for the pole. Well done Carpenter.

But so far, still the steal of the season belongs to Tags, who took team members from Andretti's cast offs. Apparently they knew what they were doing....

Now the hard part- finding time to make a race set up in between the showers this area is supposed to get all week.

Yeah, Tags (Sam Schmidt 1st and 4th on the grid!) and Carpenter are great stories. It's going to be exciting to watch for sure.

Are we finally seeing the resurgence of Newman-Haas? Servia 3rd and rookie Hinchcliffe 13th?

I think part of Andretti's problem is resources spread to thin. 5 cars @ Indy? really, even 4 cars is too many. 3 seems to be the top anyone can handle successfully (meaning have all 3 in the top 10 on a regular basis). of course, Dreyer & Reinbold entered 4 and qualified all 4 so maybe that theory is shot.

I really would love to see the Kanaan/Scheckter/Di Silvestro row at the start. if they don't take each other out they're going to move forward quickly.