Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I just read an article that said not only did TG get back on the board, he had 3 buddies also placed on the board. So now TG's 4 votes are the controlling majority......open wheel is doomed.

INDYCAR is considering doing the lucky dawg thing like crapcar. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on Randy, get your head out of your butt.

Also doing side by side restarts are all races. Part of me likes it for the excitement factor, but tracks with the chicanes or hairpins in the first few turns of the trark may end up hosting demo derbies. It's a miracle the F1 standing starts don't have piles-up in the first turn every race. Jury's out on that one.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I just read an article that said not only did TG get back on the board, he had 3 buddies also placed on the board. So now TG's 4 votes are the controlling majority......open wheel is doomed.

INDYCAR is considering doing the lucky dawg thing like crapcar. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on Randy, get your head out of your butt.

Also doing side by side restarts are all races. Part of me likes it for the excitement factor, but tracks with the chicanes or hairpins in the first few turns of the trark may end up hosting demo derbies. It's a miracle the F1 standing starts don't have piles-up in the first turn every race. Jury's out on that one.

I like the double-file restart idea. 3-abreast for INDY at each re-start.

I heard about TG but did NOT hear about his 3 cronies? link?

as for lucky dog. the fan response has been so overwhelmingly negative (and I'm assuming mostly because we don't want our favorite series or 2nd to F1 to mimic taxicab) that Randy is now re-considering the lucky dog idea. that to me is great. shows he's got an open mind and is listening to the fanbase. trouble is it will likely happen anyway as the owners are all for it.

Jacques Villeneuve wants to race for the $5 mil.

I say kudos to that. now bring on another F1 pilot or former pilot or two (and rumors are Raikonnen and Piquet are inquiring) and a big taxicab name and we've got the 60's all over again (or 70's w/donnie allison...and didn't cale yarborough try Indy?) for one night in vegas.

ALSO - breaking news is firestone is now on board until 2013. http://www.indystar.com/article/20110311/SPORTS0107/103110417/Firestone-IndyCar-extend-agreement-through-2013?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Sports|p

the biggest mistake (and only glaring one I see thusfar) from Randy Bernard is setting a 26-car limit per race. I'd up that to 28 or 30. I mean I was in chicagoland 2 years ago when they had 29 cars and it was fantastic

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/robin-miller-indy-500-family-fued

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/robin-miller-indy-500-family-fued

I don't want to hit the panic button but I'm certainly staring at it right now. Bernard has been a god-send to Indycar. if TG does wind up interfering it will destroy all the progess that's been made in the past year and potentially could destroy Indycar as a series.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I don't want to hit the panic button but I'm certainly staring at it right now. Bernard has been a god-send to Indycar. if TG does wind up interfering it will destroy all the progess that's been made in the past year and potentially could destroy Indycar as a series.

And if it does, he will go away, again, and someone else will come along, and rebuild it.

Indycar is already at it's lowest point in a long time- even if it's on an upswing, it can be destroyed 100%, and something will take it's place.

For sure, nothing to lose sleep over.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

And if it does, he will go away, again, and someone else will come along, and rebuild it.

Indycar is already at it's lowest point in a long time- even if it's on an upswing, it can be destroyed 100%, and something will take it's place.

For sure, nothing to lose sleep over.

I disagree with your assessment. I think Indycar is at a crossroads.

It's was, before Randy took over, at the at pretty much the rock bottom. Horrible TV ratings, no interest by the mass public, low interest by racing fans, teams hemorrhaging money, etc. Randy has, very much to my surprise, turned some things around in a very short time, and has the series heading in the right direction for the first time since the split.

When Tony makes his power-play and if he succeeds and when he goes back to his stupid ways then I see the series dying. I think they only reason it survived this long is because of the Indy 500 and the two die hard owners of Ganassi and Penske. Oh, and the willingness of the Hulman family to pump millions into IRL without a good return.

Could something come from the ashes of a destroyed Indycar series? Sure, but what kind of racing will it be? A series or simply back to a 500 and that is it? I consider myself a die hard racing fan. I will watch almost any racing as long as it has four wheels except Nascar. F1, Indycar, ALMS, Grand-Am, NHRA, etc all good with me. But even I lost most of my interest the past few years in Indycar until Tony got the boot. I just concerned that if Tony takes over again that the casual race fan will be gone quickly and even us die hards will leave sooner rather than later.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I disagree with your assessment. I think Indycar is at a crossroads.

It's was, before Randy took over, at the at pretty much the rock bottom. Horrible TV ratings, no interest by the mass public, low interest by racing fans, teams hemorrhaging money, etc. Randy has, very much to my surprise, turned some things around in a very short time, and has the series heading in the right direction for the first time since the split.

When Tony makes his power-play and if he succeeds and when he goes back to his stupid ways then I see the series dying. I think they only reason it survived this long is because of the Indy 500 and the two die hard owners of Ganassi and Penske. Oh, and the willingness of the Hulman family to pump millions into IRL without a good return.

Could something come from the ashes of a destroyed Indycar series? Sure, but what kind of racing will it be? A series or simply back to a 500 and that is it? I consider myself a die hard racing fan. I will watch almost any racing as long as it has four wheels except Nascar. F1, Indycar, ALMS, Grand-Am, NHRA, etc all good with me. But even I lost most of my interest the past few years in Indycar until Tony got the boot. I just concerned that if Tony takes over again that the casual race fan will be gone quickly and even us die hards will leave sooner rather than later.

Well, tomato, tomaato. They are a year from the lowest of the low- a single series that a few watched, but mostly just the 500.

And yes, I think the 500 is iconic enough that something will start from the ashes based on that single race.

I'm not an investor, just a fan/watcher. But I also know that people will find a way to race, and that open wheel racing on round tracks has been around for 100 years- it will keep going in some way or another. Many fans go to Indy to drink, they don't really care what kind of open wheel cars race, as long as the race is interesting, and the drivers are interesting. Since TV is rated so low, if it goes away for a short time, not many people will even notice.

All I can do is hope for the best, but I personally don't see anypoint worry about it. Plenty of things I like have gone away over time, and I still enjoy life. This is just another one of those things I like. And I don't stand to lose any money over this drama.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

Well, tomato, tomaato. They are a year from the lowest of the low- a single series that a few watched, but mostly just the 500.

And yes, I think the 500 is iconic enough that something will start from the ashes based on that single race.

I'm not an investor, just a fan/watcher. But I also know that people will find a way to race, and that open wheel racing on round tracks has been around for 100 years- it will keep going in some way or another. Many fans go to Indy to drink, they don't really care what kind of open wheel cars race, as long as the race is interesting, and the drivers are interesting. Since TV is rated so low, if it goes away for a short time, not many people will even notice.

All I can do is hope for the best, but I personally don't see anypoint worry about it. Plenty of things I like have gone away over time, and I still enjoy life. This is just another one of those things I like. And I don't stand to lose any money over this drama.

For me TG controlling the shots in Indycar would push me to the brink as a fan. all of his ideas to me have been ****ty. from all-american fields, to all-ovals, to the natually aspirated engines. I mean can't someone somewhere just come in and buy that effing racetrack from that family once and for all? everyone has a price.

I wouldn't lose sleep over Indycar going away I suppose but it would make summers less fun. I won't spend dime one on Indycar if TG wrests control from the one decent CEO-type they've had, possibly ever.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

For me TG controlling the shots in Indycar would push me to the brink as a fan. all of his ideas to me have been ****ty. from all-american fields, to all-ovals, to the natually aspirated engines. I mean can't someone somewhere just come in and buy that effing racetrack from that family once and for all? everyone has a price.

I wouldn't lose sleep over Indycar going away I suppose but it would make summers less fun. I won't spend dime one on Indycar if TG wrests control from the one decent CEO-type they've had, possibly ever.

My real point is IF TG forced Indycar to fail, whatever open wheel racing came after hulman george, you would probably be a fan. I know I would be, still.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

My real point is IF TG forced Indycar to fail, whatever open wheel racing came after hulman george, you would probably be a fan. I know I would be, still.

I think your being naive that a new series will automatically exist if Indycar goes under.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I think your being naive that a new series will automatically exist if Indycar goes under.

considering how many open wheel racing series there are out there, why?

From dirt to SCCA amateur, including some that follow Indycar around, but are not that associated with them- there are tons of choices out there.

Moreso that there will be a number of "obsolete" cars that have nothing better to do. Heck, you can even choose to use A1GP cars to start your own series.

I think you guys are being alarmist that there wont be open wheel racing to watch in the US.

Think about it in a different manner- for the most part, all of CART was bought by a couple of rich guys as the series died. And they managed to keep it going for a few years without the 500. It only takes a few rich guys, and people will line up to race, add in Indy, and you've got a race series that will be followed not only nationally, but world wide.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

If Indycar fails, only Penske or Ganassi could resurect it because of the lack of funds to grow one up from the ground up. And they'd have to pick it up and follow right along without missing a beat.

If Indycar dies and is dead for a yr or more before ressurction, whatever fanbase there is will just get into the routine of following other racing series and more than likely not come back to a series devoid of most of what used to be Indycar. Would I watch used A1GP cars tool around? Not if Penske isn't in it. When CART was at the end and were on Spike and Penske switched to the IRL, I stopped watching CART and watched the IRL. How would you convince ABC or ESPN to telecast a brand new series with no backing, no history and no INDY 500 to hang your hat on?

Hopefully TG will lay low and allow RB to continue to do his magic.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

If Indycar fails, only Penske or Ganassi could resurect it because of the lack of funds to grow one up from the ground up. And they'd have to pick it up and follow right along without missing a beat.

If Indycar dies and is dead for a yr or more before ressurction, whatever fanbase there is will just get into the routine of following other racing series and more than likely not come back to a series devoid of most of what used to be Indycar. Would I watch used A1GP cars tool around? Not if Penske isn't in it. When CART was at the end and were on Spike and Penske switched to the IRL, I stopped watching CART and watched the IRL. How would you convince ABC or ESPN to telecast a brand new series with no backing, no history and no INDY 500 to hang your hat on?

Hopefully TG will lay low and allow RB to continue to do his magic.

OR

Someone else would pick up the remaining pieces and start putting it together. There's no reason anyone would have to start from scratch- there are plenty of choices out there. From what's left of an IRL car to the A1GP cars- there's no void in cars.

And as evidenced by what Ganassi and Penske did, the 500 doesn't NEED them- they need the 500. The fact that such a mismanaged program like the IRL attracted the top CART teams should show you that. ABC wants the 500 to happen- it's part of their core. They don't have access to NASCAR or whatnot- so they would be part of it too. And since ESPN = ABC- I suspect they would get in on it, too. While ESPN does cover nascar a lot, and no Indy car, realistically, they also show no racing at all- even with the access of Indycar.

You all see the glass half emtpy. I see 3 glasses.

If marginal series like ALMS can survive, a replacement of Indycar is possible for sure. It just has to be interesting and fast.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I think the more accurate difference between Alfa and myself is not so much my pessimistic attitude but that I don't want to, nor will I, watch a half-assed series that is suppose to be the top OWR in the US. I've been down that road and won't do it again. History has proven that is all that TG knows how to do. I think a lot of racing fans are just like me and won't do that again. There is a reason the series has horrible TV rating, a bad TV contract, and not sponsorships. TG!

The reason series like ALMS and Grand-Am survive is that they are cheap (for racing) and nobody expects anything great from them. An Indy car series on the other hand I think most people do expect a lot of and it isn't cheap to do.


Oh, and I think ABC has almost zero interest in an Indy car series other than if they have a Indy 500 race. Even then I am not sure they would be all that broken up about it if it went away. As far as ESPN....they have less than zero interest in it. They are strickly a football/basketball station.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

I think the more accurate difference between Alfa and myself is not so much my pessimistic attitude but that I don't want to, nor will I, watch a half-assed series that is suppose to be the top OWR in the US. I've been down that road and won't do it again. History has proven that is all that TG knows how to do. I think a lot of racing fans are just like me and won't do that again. There is a reason the series has horrible TV rating, a bad TV contract, and not sponsorships. TG!

I see the same thing, and remember the years that I didn't see a single CART race (never knew where they were) and didn't pay attention to IRL. And here I am again. A year or 2 before the cars change to something... (not sure if they are interesting or not).

And I don't see much USAC interest nationally pre-CART, outside of the 500.

I see all of you as so passionate about open wheel racing that after a year of not having it, dealing with a year or 2 of questionable racing will be a lot better than nothing. You all love open wheel racing too much to walk away. I think.

 

[MattS]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

You all love open wheel racing too much to walk away. I think.

I will just pay even more attention to F1 than I already do!

Maybe add in a little GP2 and since Alexander Rossi is driving in the Renault 3.5 series this season, I will pay more attention to that too.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

You all love open wheel racing too much to walk away. I think.

It has to have something to hold my interest. I'm a Penske fan from way back, if he left Indycar, I'd probably walk away. I walked away from CRAPCAR once the cars had to fit a common template. I liked it when you could clearly tell a T-Bird from a Monte Carlo. I wish I had more time to watch the British & Austrialian Touring Cars. I used to love the Trans Am series, but once it left ESPN, I lost track of it. I did find it on the web last year, but it seemed like a shell of it's former glory. My best racing memories were getting a paddock pass @ Elkhart Lake in the late 80's. On Saturday, We'd watch the CART practices and qualifying and watch the Trans Am and Indy Lites race. We'd be driving up curvey hwy 67 in my tricked out 81 Mercury Capri and get torched by Porsche's and Ferarri's along the straights. Then we'd park in the lot and just walk around there and look at the awesome machines. I apologize for digressing. I guess all I want is to share an experience like that with my boys.

F1....So there's a bit of controversy about the over-take wing, since it's regulated you can only use it in certain zones and if you are within a certain distance of the car ahead. I'm reserving judgement on it, but I'm not a big fan of contrived passing in general. Why don't they just ditch a ton of downforce and use superhard tyres to generate closer running to eachother?

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

It has to have something to hold my interest. I'm a Penske fan from way back, if he left Indycar, I'd probably walk away. I walked away from CRAPCAR once the cars had to fit a common template. I liked it when you could clearly tell a T-Bird from a Monte Carlo. I wish I had more time to watch the British & Austrialian Touring Cars. I used to love the Trans Am series, but once it left ESPN, I lost track of it. I did find it on the web last year, but it seemed like a shell of it's former glory. My best racing memories were getting a paddock pass @ Elkhart Lake in the late 80's. On Saturday, We'd watch the CART practices and qualifying and watch the Trans Am and Indy Lites race. We'd be driving up curvey hwy 67 in my tricked out 81 Mercury Capri and get torched by Porsche's and Ferarri's along the straights. Then we'd park in the lot and just walk around there and look at the awesome machines. I apologize for digressing. I guess all I want is to share an experience like that with my boys.

To be honest if NASCAR was more like Super GT in Japan, V8 Supercars, or the DTM, it would be some of the best racing ever.

Unfortunately, like pretty much all racing, Indycar is becoming stale and boring. Same chassis', same engine supplier, same tire supplier etc. I'd watch more if there was something interesting to watch but Indycar is just Honda engine/Dallara chassis with Driver X vs Honda engine/Dallara chassis with Driver Y, kinda boring. (Not that I watch NASCAR either and I work for a company that's a major NASCAR sponsor)

Of course Indycar could be worse, it could be Formula 1. I can't watch F1 now either, too anti-American, too stale. F1 won't be happy until every race is on a Tilke track built in Asia somewhere with only Ferrari and Mercedes racing.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

To be honest if NASCAR was more like Super GT in Japan, V8 Supercars, or the DTM, it would be some of the best racing ever.

Interesting you bring that one up- since NASCAR and the v8 Supercars are almost mirror series- spec cars (all the chassis are exactly the same), spec engine (see chassis), on tight tracks. The fact that they all have EFI and IRS doesn't make them better than NASCAR, since ALL of the cars are the same. Supercars are just as spec as NASCAR.

The one part that does separate the aussies- tuning difference. Watching the races, it's pretty obvious that they allow the vehicle adjustments to be wide enough to separate the haves from the have nots.

DTM is another really interesting note, too- since it's partnering with DP next year, and making a more worldwide series. not sure if that includes the Super GT or not. But it brings one of your highlights directly in contact with the NASCAR lowlight, since DP is owned by Nascar...

To a degree, I'm ok with spec racing, since it's still good racing. But I agree that making the formula interesting outside of just the drivers is a lot more fun.

Saying that, I'd be pretty confident that given the opportunity, there would be enough to support a very strong series. The real problem comes up when the cost of fielding a competetive car vs. just fielding a car becomes so high that you just have one or two winners. Technically, McLaren and Penske killed CanAm- just by pure domination- it got boring to watch, and pointless to spend money to compete. there has to be a ballance somewhere.

What's funny- F1's biggest problem is the same as NASCAR's- aero. Reduce the donwforce enough to make the drivers really drive, and allow temporary abuse to pass. that will make it interesting. For F1- massively reduce downforce + use iron brakes, for NASCAR- get rid of the splitter/spoiler in front (and ignore the driver who whine about not being able to go WOT around a track... duh- drive).

F1 would be a lot more balanced from top to bottom if aero was a much, much smaller player. Then again, I would force them to use metal valve springs.... so that they can run bigger engines.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2011, hurry, before we downsize your engines....

My real point is IF TG forced Indycar to fail, whatever open wheel racing came after hulman george, you would probably be a fan. I know I would be, still.

yes, I would be fan of what came afterTG, I'm just saying going back to TG would turn me off entirely until he was gone