Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

[manurespreader]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

Overall I thought it was a great olympics. No security issues, and great weather with tons of fans and good sportsmanship.I thought the British were good hosts. My favorite event was men's eights, with the 4 x 100 second. I also loved the kenyan guy's world record run in the 800.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

I thought many of the British successes were fun to watch and often had goose-bumps from seeing it happen before the home fans, especially Murray and Mo Farah. And I know as a US soccer fan I'm supposed to root against Mexico but I wasn't unhappy to see them win the men's gold. I thought they played very well and they don't have any Jared Borgettis (sp?) to p**s me off.

 

[Patman]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

Could be. But the involvement of a BALCO "chemist" is troubling.

from what i've read elsewhere... the other countries don't test nearly as frequently as the U.S. and the Euros.

But... the bigger thing is the game has stopped being how to beat the system and instead its how to game the system... cycling gave us a view into this... just enough doping in just enough cycles to avoid competition windows. In international weightlifting a lot of attention is given as to when and how to come off of drug protocols

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

from what i've read elsewhere... the other countries don't test nearly as frequently as the U.S. and the Euros.

But... the bigger thing is the game has stopped being how to beat the system and instead its how to game the system... cycling gave us a view into this... just enough doping in just enough cycles to avoid competition windows. In international weightlifting a lot of attention is given as to when and how to come off of drug protocols

Which is why I raise the question about whether we're heading toward elimination of doping concerns. Just like we eliminate concerns about amateurism. Doping is getting more sophisticated every day. And the ability to catch it seems like it's not keeping up. So why not just give out medals for "chemists" and quit all this loser talk about who's doping and who's not? Problem solved: everybody's doing it.

 

[Farce Poobah]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

Which is why I raise the question about whether we're heading toward elimination of doping concerns. Just like we eliminate concerns about amateurism. Doping is getting more sophisticated every day. And the ability to catch it seems like it's not keeping up. So why not just give out medals for "chemists" and quit all this loser talk about who's doping and who's not? Problem solved: everybody's doing it.

Because then there will be immense physical damage to athletes, and we'll all feel guilty about cheering for someone that our money killed off. So instead we have rules to protect athletes, but that also protect our consciences.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

Because then there will be immense physical damage to athletes, and we'll all feel guilty about cheering for someone that our money killed off. So instead we have rules to protect athletes, but that also protect our consciences.

Maybe there will be "immense physical damage to athletes," maybe not. There certainly was the case with East German swimmers and other athletes. But that was over 30 years ago. Cheating has progressed significantly since then. And will probably get more sophisticated down the road, both in terms of detection avoidance and of risks to athletes. I mean, you read about high school athletes juicing. Certainly without the involvement of their coaches, but some are doing it. And what does a young kid "learn" about cheating when he looks at Barry Bonds? And others?

If doping is an open secret and as prevalent as some suggest, why not just bring it out into the open?

 

[Patman]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

Maybe there will be "immense physical damage to athletes," maybe not. There certainly was the case with East German swimmers and other athletes. But that was over 30 years ago. Cheating has progressed significantly since then. And will probably get more sophisticated down the road, both in terms of detection avoidance and of risks to athletes. I mean, you read about high school athletes juicing. Certainly without the involvement of their coaches, but some are doing it. And what does a young kid "learn" about cheating when he looks at Barry Bonds? And others?

If doping is an open secret and as prevalent as some suggest, why not just bring it out into the open?

I promise you, people will push the harmful limits to win.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

I promise you, people will push the harmful limits to win.

Absolutely-the rewards are just too great. Win a gold medal or 2 and get a TV contract for a reality show, advertising companies lining up to hand you millions, book deals and movie rights-I suppose Gabby Douglas' mom will not need to declare bankruptcy after all? Everyone ask yourself this question-would you, at about age 20, take some chemical that may/may not be dangerous and even life shortening down the road 30-40 years, if you knew it could guarantee youan 8 figure fortune per year for a significant number of years? Thinking about it now-at my current older age-I would not want to shorten my life at all. But if i was asked that question as a much more naive 18 year old who just cannot fathom what life would be like 40 years down the road-I honestly do not know how i would answer the question.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

Absolutely-the rewards are just too great. Win a gold medal or 2 and get a TV contract for a reality show, advertising companies lining up to hand you millions, book deals and movie rights-I suppose Gabby Douglas' mom will not need to declare bankruptcy after all? Everyone ask yourself this question-would you, at about age 20, take some chemical that may/may not be dangerous and even life shortening down the road 30-40 years, if you knew it could guarantee youan 8 figure fortune per year for a significant number of years? Thinking about it now-at my current older age-I would not want to shorten my life at all. But if i was asked that question as a much more naive 18 year old who just cannot fathom what life would be like 40 years down the road-I honestly do not know how i would answer the question.

This is most certainly true for me too. Wisdom sometimes comes with age. If you think about it, people who are in their 20s now have seen exponential gains in medicine. I am sure that more than a few assume there will be a fix discovered before they get anything really awful.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

I have a few questions of our medical professionals. I assume that blood doping is not effective any longer since they begin testing several weeks before events now. But lets say I'm doing steroids and I stop 2 months before whatever event I am entering, how much benefit will I lose by stopping. In other words won't the muscles atrophy? how much am I losing by stopping?

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

I have a few questions of our medical professionals. I assume that blood doping is not effective any longer since they begin testing several weeks before events now. But lets say I'm doing steroids and I stop 2 months before whatever event I am entering, how much benefit will I lose by stopping. In other words won't the muscles atrophy? how much am I losing by stopping?

That is the key question. How fast do athletes lose any competitive edge they gain with each type of enhancement? It is different for blood doping and erythrocyte production stimulating drugs than with traditional steroids. But what about the newer classes of drugs that have been undetectable? Much of the answer depends on how long before a competition you have to clear the offending substance from your body in order to test negatively. The ideal cheating substance would be one in which you could take it until just before a competition-then have something to cover it up or clear it from your system (even undergoing dialysis if you had to or some odd form of chelation therapy). Perhaps testing merthods will be found that work sort of like an A1C test for diabetes-in which red blood cells are testing and give you a 90 day picture of what your blood sugars have been like. Accurate testing would be needed to determine use of any drug or substance for a considerable pre competition time. Ane the testing may have to be on multiple substrates-perhaps blood sample, urine sample, hair analysis and if we want to go so far-a tissue specimen like a liver biopsy. I sincerely doubt that this will ever get that far. Tests will get better for sure, at least for substance we know about. But cheating will still be done and newer and less detectible enhancements used. There is just too much at stake for these athletes to not do it.
One other thought-why not make each athlete undergo a lie detector test before a competition? I am sure a few simple questions could be devised that would ascertain whether they had done anything that was suspicious and they then could be singled out for special testing.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

This is most certainly true for me too. Wisdom sometimes comes with age. If you think about it, people who are in their 20s now have seen exponential gains in medicine. I am sure that more than a few assume there will be a fix discovered before they get anything really awful.

Very true-I for one was a fairly wild child. I did a lot of things in my younger days that I would never even remotely think of doing now and often wonder what the heck was i thinking. That is why i posed the question. The mentality of a competing 18 year old is just so different from how I view things now. I cannot even speak for myself as to how i would react and whether I would try enhancements for competitions so i certainly cannot remotely imagine how others would feel. As a physician who has treated numerous athletes and body builders I can say that the results of the drugs are dramatic and substantial.

 

[Patman]

This is most certainly true for me too. Wisdom sometimes comes with age. If you think about it, people who are in their 20s now have seen exponential gains in medicine. I am sure that more than a few assume there will be a fix discovered before they get anything really awful.

People assume that about a whole lot of things as it is now.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

For me, the single biggest surprise of this Olympics was/is that Fatboy Slim is white. I know, right?

Been listening (albeit lightly - few times a year) to a couple of albums that, how should I put this, that I don't have the cover art to (ARRRRGH Matey!) for many years now.

During the closing ceremonies I was like "THAT'S Fatboy Slim!?! !!"

I also didn't know he was British...

My wife said "That guy's a tool."

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

For me, the single biggest surprise of this Olympics was/is that Fatboy Slim is white. I know, right?

Been listening (albeit lightly - few times a year) to a couple of albums that, how should I put this, that I don't have the cover art to (ARRRRGH Matey!) for many years now.

During the closing ceremonies I was like "THAT'S Fatboy Slim!?! !!"

I also didn't know he was British...

My wife said "That guy's a tool."

Yeah, but the Walken video is way cool.

 

[Scarlet]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

For me, the single biggest surprise of this Olympics was/is that Fatboy Slim is white. I know, right?

And OLD!!

I enjoyed the closing ceremonies more than the opening ceremonies. I thought it was very cool for them to play up what they're known for - their music. Good for all those acts that participated. Loved seeing George Michael and as he has performed Queen songs before, I was curious as to why he did not sing with them and Jessie J did. Is she really that big of an act? I only know one of her songs. I was bummed that NBC felt they had to force us to watch another one of their fall shows and didn't just show the entire closing ceremonies in one fell swoop. I did not stay up to watch The Who perform. And I have no idea if they did their long closing credits.

I miss the Olympics already!!! I really should start planning now to try and go to Rio in 2016.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

No U2, no David Gilmour nor Roger Waters (together or solo), no Stones, no Page nor Plant, no Stone Roses, no Corrine Bailey Rae, no Adele, no Cure (well I would enjoy it anyway), no Robbie Williams....

I know they can't have everyone come back but dammit...

 

[Craig P.]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

no David Gilmour nor Roger Waters (together or solo)

Especially given that they covered a Pink Floyd song.

 

[Deleted member 3166]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

No U2, no David Gilmour nor Roger Waters (together or solo), no Stones, no Page nor Plant, no Stone Roses, no Corrine Bailey Rae, no Adele, no Cure (well I would enjoy it anyway), no Robbie Williams....

I know they can't have everyone come back but dammit...

Robbie Williams was going to perform with Take That but his wife's due date was close to the closing ceremony date and he didn't want to commit and then have to back out for the birth of his child.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

No U2, no David Gilmour nor Roger Waters (together or solo), no Stones, no Page nor Plant, no Stone Roses, no Corrine Bailey Rae, no Adele, no Cure (well I would enjoy it anyway), no Robbie Williams....

I know they can't have everyone come back but dammit...

Not to get all technical, but U2 is not British.


I gotta think that those others were asked, so if they weren't there, it was probably their choice.

Except of course the Stone Roses. Can't imagine that they were asked.