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ObamaRama 8

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Re: ObamaRama 8

ScoobyDoo said:
The fact is we deregulated what was already regulated. When things were regulated things were fine, when they were deregulated we had the SNL crash, and now the recent dereg has caused the "Too Big To Fail" crash.

That's the point that was being made.
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Deregulation was only a small part of the reason for the S&L crash. Like the most recent crisis, you can look at the policies that the gov't put in place that made the bubble and burst possible.

Economic Breakdown of the S&L Crisis Causes
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

ScottM said:
The fact of the matter is that all of the "regulation" in the world cannot overcome wilfull, irresponsible behavior by those involved.
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True. But rampant deregulation only serves to open the floodgates, so to speak. Why worry about your irresponsible behavior when consequences are taken away?

Would it also open the doors for honest people to make more money? Perhaps. But that's never anywhere near as garaunteed as criminal people taking advantage of an unchecked system.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Handyman said:
Yes but what about the irresponsible behavior of the average person...the schmucks who take out loans they can't pay for or credit cards they can't pay off. All the regulation in the world can't stop them. (people defaulted before, they default now, they will in the future)
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That's not the point. It doesn't hurt those who are irresponsible, it punishes those who are responsible. You're looking at overregulating everyone for the sins of a few.

Of course, it is a basic liberal tenet: When something happens, make a law. Ban it or tax it.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Slap Shot said:
The governement didn't force any policy regarding the housing industry onto anyone, but lenders and borrowers voluntarily took advantage of the loosened qualifications. Krugman had a good piece on that earlier in the week.
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And now O'Bammer is pressing banks to loosen their lending guidelines with regards to business. Anyone else feeling a touch of deja vu here?
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

MinnFan said:
Deregulation was only a small part of the reason for the S&L crash. Like the most recent crisis, you can look at the policies that the gov't put in place that made the bubble and burst possible.

Economic Breakdown of the S&L Crisis Causes
Click to expand...

You can say whatever you want about what caused what and who caused who. THE FACT is that the S and L crash did not happen before a deregulation occurred, and the latest crash didn't happen before one either. If we had left well enough alone with the regs that were put in place in FDR's days we would be fine, and I've heard many a smart person say that on TV and radio.

And NOW look at what will happen. We'll go too far the other way which is always what happens. You'd figure the deregulators would learn that but no they never learn. We repeat history around here like it never happened.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Plante26 said:
And now O'Bammer is pressing banks to loosen their lending guidelines with regards to business. Anyone else feeling a touch of deja vu here?
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I've got mixed feelings about this. Yeah, yeah, lower taxes I get that but short of that on the one hand a huge big complaint is that many small business owners or pending small business owners are handcuffed to the point of being rendered incapable of making a profit or even starting up. Yet as you note could this bring more harm than good and drag us further into the sh***er?
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Plante26 said:
That's not the point. It doesn't hurt those who are irresponsible, it punishes those who are responsible. You're looking at overregulating everyone for the sins of a few.

Of course, it is a basic liberal tenet: When something happens, make a law. Ban it or tax it.
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But shouldn't that be the point? Predatory loans are bad, deregulation is bad, but in the end if I cant pay for the loan I am applying for isnt that MY FAULT? I am all for blaming the banks and the lawmakers that suckle at their teet but jesus if you are a cocktail waitress you should not be taking out loans for $200,000 to buy a house.

This country is one big Culture on No Responsibility and that is what is taking us down. The problem is no politician will ever admit that or they will be a FORMER politician.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

joecct said:
Can we put the Congress in there?
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No. they are exempt from most laws. :mad:

The better question is if corporations should be treated as individual and sent to debtors prison. or at least the executives and the board. :)
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Handyman said:
This country is one big Culture on No Responsibility and that is what is taking us down. The problem is no politician will ever admit that or they will be a FORMER politician.
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Name a politician that takes responsibility
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Handyman said:
But shouldn't that be the point? Predatory loans are bad, deregulation is bad, but in the end if I cant pay for the loan I am applying for isnt that MY FAULT? I am all for blaming the banks and the lawmakers that suckle at their teet but jesus if you are a cocktail waitress you should not be taking out loans for $200,000 to buy a house.

This country is one big Culture on No Responsibility and that is what is taking us down. The problem is no politician will ever admit that or they will be a FORMER politician.
Click to expand...

I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Handyman said:
But shouldn't that be the point? Predatory loans are bad, deregulation is bad, but in the end if I cant pay for the loan I am applying for isnt that MY FAULT? I am all for blaming the banks and the lawmakers that suckle at their teet but jesus if you are a cocktail waitress you should not be taking out loans for $200,000 to buy a house.

This country is one big Culture on No Responsibility and that is what is taking us down. The problem is no politician will ever admit that or they will be a FORMER politician.
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Of course I'm in the same boat with you in regards to people overextending themselves. I've said it before: Americans have decided that they are always the victim, and there's no one telling them otherwise. Politicians, attorneys, parents, social workers, teachers.....I could go on forever. But no one EVER points the finger at themselves. It's always someone else that is screwing them. There is zero accountability for way too many people--as evidenced by the masses that are walking away from their homes rather than buckling down and finding a way to make ends meet.....like our parents and grandparents did.

Now, there's no stigma attached to being on welfare.....or having bad credit.....or having their home foreclosed upon. Seriously, I could go on forever. Of course, not too many people have pointed the finger at the homeowners as the perpetrators of this entire financial mess, because it was homeowners defaulting on their mortgages that started the domino effect.

That said, the overregulation that is coming down on the financial industry is going to hurt the average hard-working American worse than it will those who aren't accountable for their financial irresponsibility. And on the flip side: Make sure that financial institutions are making good decisions/investments by letting them know that if they fawk up, we're not helping them. We might help their competitors buy up the pieces of their failing corporations (which is how TARP should have gone down), but we're not floating them a loan again. And you're d*mn right: No politician will outright say anything about the irresponsibility of the majority of American people--in fact, the politicians are the ones that have legislated this country into the culture of entitlement and unaccountability that has permeated the nation. A d*mn shame, it is.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Plante26 said:
That's not the point. It doesn't hurt those who are irresponsible, it punishes those who are responsible. You're looking at overregulating everyone for the sins of a few.
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Deregulation hurt those who are responsible as well. Pretty much everyone who isn't a phat cat is being hurt by this economy.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

joecct said:
The Washington Post is down to the final 2 in the Person of the Decade. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/discussions/best-of-the-decade/most-influential/index.html

Who do you choose? Bush 43 or Osama Bin Laden?
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Bin Laden...not only did he cause the worst terrorist attack on American Soil but he is still alive running around. Not to mention his actions set in motion a series of events that shifted the ideals and the actions of this country.

Look at as before, and look at us after it is night and day.
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Handyman said:
Bin Laden...not only did he cause the worst terrorist attack on American Soil but he is still alive running around. Not to mention his actions set in motion a series of events that shifted the ideals and the actions of this country.

Look at as before, and look at us after it is night and day.
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I dunno, one could argue Junior fu@k#ed us up more than even OBL did.


If you can't laugh at that lighten up
 
Re: ObamaRama 8

Plante26 said:
There is zero accountability for way too many people--as evidenced by the masses that are walking away from their homes rather than buckling down and finding a way to make ends meet.....like our parents and grandparents did.
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Does your ire extend to the same crooks who got us into this mess in the first place?
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/12/does-morgan-stanley-walking-away-from.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CalculatedRisk+%28Calculated+Risk%29


Morgan Stanley ... plans to relinquish five San Francisco office buildings to its lender two years after purchasing them from Blackstone Group LP near the top of the market.

“This isn’t a default or foreclosure situation,” [Alyson Barnes, a Morgan Stanley spokeswoman] said. “We are going to give them the properties to get out of the loan obligation.”
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I mean, corporations have been walking away from their obligations for decades, and nary a whimper from you about their ethical responsibilities and lack of accountability. If it's perfectly fine for corporations, meaning, it makes sense from a purely business, bottom line sense, why shouldn't people behave the same way? If it's better for their bottom line to simply walk away, then that's what they should do.

And no, this whole thing wasn't caused by people defaulting on their mortgages. That was the tipping point, but it wouild have been but a ripple in a pond except for the fact that those mortgages had been carved up and reprocessed into so many other investment vehicles, sliced and diced so many times that there was ultimately nothing of any tangible value in those vehicles, all bought by your hero banks leveraging themselves to the hilt, and then spinning credit default swaps off over these vehicles, over and over again so you had something like $60 trillion of CDS's covering stuff barely worth 1 percent of that amount.

When mortgages started defaulting, our financial giants started calling their notes due, and since none of them had any money or assets to cover them, here we are.

When you hold an asset that's supposedly worth a couple million that suddenly turns out to be worthless, and since it is now worthless, there are insurers on the hook for 100's of millions, millions they don't have, you can easily see how it degenerates into the mess we've seen.
 
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