ObamaRama 8

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I dunno, one could argue Junior fu@k#ed us up more than even OBL did.

True. Neither one of them would have been on the man of the decade list without the other.

 

[rufus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Deregulation hurt those who are responsible as well. Pretty much everyone who isn't a phat cat is being hurt by this economy.

Yeah, but the hurt isn't quite as painful sitting on a couple million in your NYC townhouse.

I'll take that hurt anyday, especially if it was me phukking up that caused it.

 

[ScottM]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I mean, corporations have been walking away from their obligations for decades, and nary a whimper from you about their ethical responsibilities and lack of accountability. If it's perfectly fine for corporations, meaning, it makes sense from a purely business, bottom line sense, why shouldn't people behave the same way? If it's better for their bottom line to simply walk away, then that's what they should do.

Nice try, again. However, the difference between the Morgan/Blackstone deal and the deadbeats who "strategically default" is that Morgan will most likely be doing other business with their lenders again and they came to an agreement which left everyone a bit unhappy.

Most individuals who walk away do it on their own with no agreement with their lender. And if they do it us, we sue their asses where we can, and take their bank accounts, and anything else we can attach. It will suck for these idiots who walk away and then have to contend with a judgment sitting on their credit report for 10-20 years. Good luck getting a decent job, or anything else. At least a foreclosure or short-sale drops off after 7 years, and a BK after 10.

 

[rufus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Right, you cut deals for corporations, but won't for individuals. We've already seen this where banks can and will re-write the terms of a loan to help benefit corporations, but won't, even outright refuse, to do so for mortgage holders. You play hardball with individuals and then take whatever you can get from them, but you softpedal corporations.

 

[walrus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Right, you cut deals for corporations, but won't for individuals. We've already seen this where banks can and will re-write the terms of a loan to help benefit corporations, but won't, even outright refuse, to do so for mortgage holders. You play hardball with individuals and then take whatever you can get from them, but you softpedal corporations.

Gee, welcome to the real world.Money has always bought justice, not sure why you're shocked at that?

 

[Handyman]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Gee, welcome to the real world.Money has always bought justice, not sure why you're shocked at that?

Well he thinks the Left is above such forms of BS...he is an idealist who thinks a spot on a political spectrum actually means something. I applaud him for that even if it is ridiculously misguided. (and he is nowhere near as bad as some of the others who post around here on both sides!)

The rich screw the poor in hopes of getting richer or staying rich. Big Business cares about Big Business and the Govt cares about what Big Business cares about. There is no Left or Right, right or wrong it is those who can afford to be heard and the rest of us.

"Halls of justice painted green, money talking..."

 

[Old Pio]

Re: ObamaRama 8

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cruise-missiles-strike-yemen/story?id=9375236

Way to go, Mr. President! Always nice to think of these bastiches flying through the air with fewer than the normal number of appendages.

note: The Navy version of cruise missles (the Tomahawk) has a 1000 lb warhead, while the Air Force version has a 2000 lb warhead. Makes a very big bang. 8th century, say hello to 21.

 

[walrus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Well he thinks the Left is above such forms of BS

He's not the only one on here that believes that

 

[rufus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Gee, welcome to the real world.Money has always bought justice, not sure why you're shocked at that?

Not shocked, just don't like it much. Especially when others start lecturing about people's lack of accountability and their moral shortcomings, while ignoring or excusing the same from the corporate world.

 

[SteveP]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Joe Friday does it again!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IRYAqekvj4I&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IRYAqekvj4I&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[solovsfett]

Re: ObamaRama 8

well, Ben Nelson sold out. $ going to Nebraska.

I can't wait to see how many of these sell-outs and bums get thrown out in 2010. If this bill weren't such a cancer in terms of it's scope/policy and in the fact it will take a magician to undo, it's *ALMOST* worth them passing this, to see how many of these dip****s lose their career over their singular marxist dare I say almost communist goals.

I'm saying right now about a 10 seat swing in the Senate, and rougly 45-55 in the house.

that's the hope and change we want. not the 400million in new taxes to pay for people who don't want or don't care about insurance.

most of us have a hard enough time making our own ends meet, needless to say helping pay for others?

ugh

 

[DrDemento]

Re: ObamaRama 8

well, Ben Nelson sold out. $ going to Nebraska.

I can't wait to see how many of these sell-outs and bums get thrown out in 2010. If this bill weren't such a cancer in terms of it's scope/policy and in the fact it will take a magician to undo, it's *ALMOST* worth them passing this, to see how many of these dip****s lose their career over their singular marxist dare I say almost communist goals.

I'm saying right now about a 10 seat swing in the Senate, and rougly 45-55 in the house.

that's the hope and change we want. not the 400million in new taxes to pay for people who don't want or don't care about insurance.

most of us have a hard enough time making our own ends meet, needless to say helping pay for others?

ugh

You won't see any 10 seat swing in the senate-there are only 33 or 34 races for the senate being held and I would guess that 25-30 of them are a lock for the incumbent. The house is a different story with all 435 seats up for election-but there too many seats are vitual locks and I am just ot sure how many will be competitive. I do agree, however, that this bill was rushed through with all the faults intact.

 

[walrus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

I can't wait to see how many of these sell-outs and bums get thrown out in 2010. If this bill weren't such a cancer in terms of it's scope/policy and in the fact it will take a magician to undo, it's *ALMOST* worth them passing this, to see how many of these dip****s lose their career over their singular marxist dare I say almost communist goals.

You don't seem to understand, it doesn't matter who is in there.They'll sell us down the river either way. Term Limits are the only thing that could save us. Once those guys are in, they're in for life and they know it

 

[solovsfett]

Re: ObamaRama 8

You won't see any 10 seat swing in the senate-there are only 33 or 34 races for the senate being held and I would guess that 25-30 of them are a lock for the incumbent. The house is a different story with all 435 seats up for election-but there too many seats are vitual locks and I am just ot sure how many will be competitive. I do agree, however, that this bill was rushed through with all the faults intact.

maybe. But I wouldn't underestimate how much of a game-changer this is. We're a country that leans closer still to the rugged individualism that was such a defining element of our first years. We're more Ayn Rand, then Saul Alinsky.

As for locks...I'm not as certain.....In Wisconsin for example, Russ Feingold. Lock, right?

but if Tommy Thompson runs against him and campaigns on the healthcare bill, pro-military, pro-USA (vs obama's world-wide apology tour), anti cap and trade, etc. etc. The dems lose what was seen as a lock.

this 2010 election is going to be enormous and I may be overly optimistic right now but I honestly think a 10 seat swing in the senate is on it's way.

I marked in bold some people who may be in trouble in 2010.

weigh in, some of the states/senators I'm not so sure on

Retiring Senators
Ted Kaufman (D) of Delaware
Kit Bond (R) of Missouri
Sam Brownback (R) of Kansas
Mel Martinez (R) of Florida (to be replaced by Marco Rubio?)
George Voinovich (R) of Ohio

Democratic incumbents
Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas
Barbara Boxer of California
Michael Bennet of Colorado
Christopher Dodd of Connecticut
Daniel Inouye of Hawaii
Roland Burris of Illinois
Evan Bayh of Indiana
Barbara Mikulski of Maryland
Harry Reid of Nevada
Kirsten Gillibrand of New York
Chuck Schumer of New York
Byron Dorgan of North Dakota
Ron Wyden of Oregon
Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania
Patrick Leahy of Vermont
Patty Murray of Washington
Russ Feingold of Wisconsin

Republican incumbents
Richard Shelby of Alabama
Lisa Murkowski of Alaska
John McCain of Arizona
Johnny Isakson of Georgia
Mike Crapo of Idaho
Chuck Grassley of Iowa
Jim Bunning of Kentucky
David Vitter of Louisiana
Judd Gregg of New Hampshire
Richard Burr of North Carolina
Tom Coburn of Oklahoma
Jim DeMint of South Carolina
John Thune of South Dakota
Bob Bennett of Utah

 

[solovsfett]

Re: ObamaRama 8

You don't seem to understand, it doesn't matter who is in there.They'll sell us down the river either way. Term Limits are the only thing that could save us. Once those guys are in, they're in for life and they know it

Ok, I agree. We need term limits, and 2 or 3 runs at the senate is fine. more than that is too much. You're right. Guys like Kohl, Dodd, Reid, McCain, they all think it's the supreme court once they get in.

oh, and some tort reform would help so my doctor buddies don't have to tell their patients they've got to run 1 million tests to insure what they found (even though they're 99.9 repeating certain) couldn't possibly be say ebola or some 1 in a million thing, just in case so they don't get sued.

 

[SteveP]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Interesting comments from Nat Hentsoff, who thinks O "is possibly the most dangerous and destructive president we have ever had."

Even worse than W.

I am beginning to think that this guy is a phony. Obama seems to have no firm principles that I can discern that he will adhere to. His only principle is his own aggrandizement. This is a very dangerous mindset for a president to have.

 

[Patman]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Interesting comments from Nat Hentsoff, who thinks O "is possibly the most dangerous and destructive president we have ever had."

Even worse than W.

Obama believes as many hard line but "pragmatic" Dems/socialists... we cannot achieve tremendous change (that which the screamers desire) without a major backlash and possible schism of the United States... instead what we shall do is work incrementally in slowly shaping the world and passing laws that incrementally take us where we need to go.

Even this bill has the tools here... once the industry shows that its incapable of being holistic and perfect in a manner that they proscribe... which is to say that the market for consumer health insurance starts to fail... then they will declare the ultimate failure of health insurance as a failure regardless of how one feels about the morality of universal health care.

My guess is Obama like others believe in the long march though Obama probably thought he could use his NLP enabled stature to advance the march a little faster. Obama was seen as a generational liberal savior because they thought they could use him and his personality affectations to finally make their principles as those principles of society as they morally and truly should be. Remember that progressives believe in progress... towards some ill-defined goal that often looks like Communism... the conservatives are more agnostic to the ideal of society save that it must be efficient which is why they are perceived as heel-dragging. Of course with conservatives there is also a strong religious element so to many they view their ideal society through Christ but in contemporary Christianity in the US there they are agnostic to economic dictum.

When you talk to democrats, even those around here, they seem themselves as the vanguard of the enlightened and are self-righteous through that. Its hard to go against such a current of assured belief.

edit: I will say this... Obama has to be the most decietful person that I'm aware of that has ascended to the title of the president... the lies of his campaign were brazen and many... the obvious ones that should make people choke was the transparency pledge. How can you be OK with such brazenness without admitting that you believe in "by any means necessary"?

 

[rufus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Well I sure hope you're mad at the 'moderate' Dems and the Repubs who managed to strip the real reforms from the bill, while keeping the handouts to the insurance biz in the form of the mandates. New bill costs $871 billion, $20 billion more than the public option plan.

The CBO has concluded that, on average, premiums will be the same as they would have been if the Senate had the public option, but that the public option saved the federal government more money by putting downward pressure on the premiums of low-cost private plans, which will be heavily subsidized.

No public option, everyone required to purchase insurance, if you can't afford it the government will subsidize, why would insurance companies keep premiums low, when the government can just kick in more money to the subsidies?

Hope all you deficit hawks are proud of what you've wrought here. Hope you bring your ire down on all those fiscal conservatives and all the Dems who opposed this on concerns about cost who have succeeded in killing a plan that would have cost less than what you have now.

 

[Patman]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Hope all you deficit hawks are proud of what you've wrought here. Hope you bring your ire down on all those fiscal conservatives and all the Dems who opposed this on concerns about cost who have succeeded in killing a plan that would have cost less than what you have now.

Oh, sweet, I hadn't realized Kool-aid brought back the psychedelic cyanide flavor back.

 

[walrus]

Re: ObamaRama 8

Well I sure hope you're mad at the 'moderate' Dems and the Repubs who managed to strip the real reforms from the bill, while keeping the handouts to the insurance biz in the form of the mandates. New bill costs $871 billion, $20 billion more than the public option plan.


No public option, everyone required to purchase insurance, if you can't afford it the government will subsidize, why would insurance companies keep premiums low, when the government can just kick in more money to the subsidies?

Hope all you deficit hawks are proud of what you've wrought here. Hope you bring your ire down on all those fiscal conservatives and all the Dems who opposed this on concerns about cost who have succeeded in killing a plan that would have cost less than what you have now.

IF all these things are wrong why are they passing the bill?