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Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I don't think there's ever going to be such a thing as a fool-proof system. Every form of government (dictator, republic, even anarchy) has at least one "flaw", and humans have the uncanny desire (and ability, for that matter) to exploit the flaw to their advantage.
We should go to a "loser pays" tort system like most of the rest of the world. Cut down on lawsuit happy lawyers and frivolous lawsuits.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

We should go to a "loser pays" tort system like most of the rest of the world. Cut down on lawsuit happy lawyers and frivolous lawsuits.

Where the loser pays all court fees and lost wages, along with any damages? That'd eliminate a number of the extortion cases.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

We should go to a "loser pays" tort system like most of the rest of the world. Cut down on lawsuit happy lawyers and frivolous lawsuits.

So I suppose your a huge backer of single payer as well then...

Obama really should have committed to a bit of tort reform. It would have made the Dems have some skin in the health care game and would likely have given the Republicans something to crow about. All the numbers on tort reform Obama claimed during the health care bill indicated they were small numbers. Sadly those small numbers are exactly why he should have included them, not excluding them.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

So I suppose your a huge backer of single payer as well then...

Obama really should have committed to a bit of tort reform. It would have made the Dems have some skin in the health care game and would likely have given the Republicans something to crow about. All the numbers on tort reform Obama claimed during the health care bill indicated they were small numbers. Sadly those small numbers are exactly why he should have included them, not excluding them.

He wasn't referring to health care, but rather the justice system.

Currently, the system favours attorneys, because even if you successfully defend a lawsuit, you have lost court fees, attorney fees, and any lost wages that would otherwise be made at your job. Essentially, if I were the governor and I wanted to make money for my state, it would be in my best interest to instruct the police commissioner to pull over every single person seen, regardless of whether or not they actually committed a crime. At the same time, I would then instruct the Attorney General to always try to get a plea bargain. In addition, I would then double or triple court fees and have the money from the excess go directly to the state. If any citizen tried to sue for extortion, I would then instruct the Attorney General to filibuster as long as possible in order to coerce the citizen into dropping the case.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

The right to try to get rich is in the Declaration of Independence. Nowhere is that right articulated in the Constitution.

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Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

We should go to a "loser pays" tort system like most of the rest of the world. Cut down on lawsuit happy lawyers and frivolous lawsuits.
No it wouldn't. Not even close. In fact, you might very well see more lawsuits.

Lawyers have typically been paid under one of two fee arrangements -- paid on an hourly basis or paid a percentage of a final recovery for their clients (contingency fee). The defendants in a lawsuit will always be paying their attorney on an hourly basis since they aren't seeking to make a recovery upon which a contingent fee is based (some clients may have a lawyer on retainer, or be paying on a "job" basis, but that's the exception and not the rule.)

The plaintiffs, usually, are paying a contingency fee. The norm is probably somewhere between 25% and 50% of any recovery, sometimes subject to court approval.

In the vast majority of lawsuits there is no "fee shifting" as you propose. This means that before a lawyer will start a lawsuit in which he or she is to receive a contingency fee, the lawyer will evaluate the potential damages available to determine whether the prospective contingency fee is worth the time and risk (of no recovery at all) associated with the case.

Right now about the only fee shifting that ever occurs is when it is either specified in a prior agreement between the parties (think, your promissory note and mortgage on your house) or where set out by statute passed by the legislature. Statutory fee shifting is common in things like employment related disputes over wages, discrimination, etc...

Let's say you have a case where you claim you suffered a broken finger as a result of a defective machine designed by John Deere. No lawyer will ever take that case. You might have a few thousand dollars in medical bills, no real permanent disability. A lawyer can't hire the necessary design engineer necessary to make such a case fly for the damages he or she might expect to recover.

But now add fee shifting to the equation. If the attorney believes that in addition to the actual damages sustained that the attorney might be able to recover from John Deere $200,000 in attorneys fees through "fee shifting", the case becomes much more attractive. The attorney is basically working on John Deere's "dime."

The reason legislatures and Congress enacted fee shifting in cases like employment discrimination is to make them attractive to plaintiff's lawyers. Otherwise no one is going to take a case where you might only recover 6 months wages as damages for someone who was making $24,000/year. A lawyer wouldn't take such a case if he or she was only going to make $3000 as a fee.

If you want to create an environment in which every minor grievance is now a basis for an actual lawsuit, then by all means enact fee shifting rules.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

It's almost as if people schooled on economic theory by community college drop-outs on right wing talk radio host don't know what they're talking about. Who'd have thought it?

It's a mystery all right. Why do libstains, especially the most condescending, arrogant and pompous ones, seem to have so much knowledge about what goes on on "right wing radio." I should think they would amuse themselves some other way.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

No it wouldn't. Not even close. In fact, you might very well see more lawsuits.

Lawyers have typically been paid under one of two fee arrangements -- paid on an hourly basis or paid a percentage of a final recovery for their clients (contingency fee). The defendants in a lawsuit will always be paying their attorney on an hourly basis since they aren't seeking to make a recovery upon which a contingent fee is based (some clients may have a lawyer on retainer, or be paying on a "job" basis, but that's the exception and not the rule.)

The plaintiffs, usually, are paying a contingency fee. The norm is probably somewhere between 25% and 50% of any recovery, sometimes subject to court approval.

In the vast majority of lawsuits there is no "fee shifting" as you propose. This means that before a lawyer will start a lawsuit in which he or she is to receive a contingency fee, the lawyer will evaluate the potential damages available to determine whether the prospective contingency fee is worth the time and risk (of no recovery at all) associated with the case.

Right now about the only fee shifting that ever occurs is when it is either specified in a prior agreement between the parties (think, your promissory note and mortgage on your house) or where set out by statute passed by the legislature. Statutory fee shifting is common in things like employment related disputes over wages, discrimination, etc...

Let's say you have a case where you claim you suffered a broken finger as a result of a defective machine designed by John Deere. No lawyer will ever take that case. You might have a few thousand dollars in medical bills, no real permanent disability. A lawyer can't hire the necessary design engineer necessary to make such a case fly for the damages he or she might expect to recover.

But now add fee shifting to the equation. If the attorney believes that in addition to the actual damages sustained that the attorney might be able to recover from John Deere $200,000 in attorneys fees through "fee shifting", the case becomes much more attractive. The attorney is basically working on John Deere's "dime."

The reason legislatures and Congress enacted fee shifting in cases like employment discrimination is to make them attractive to plaintiff's lawyers. Otherwise no one is going to take a case where you might only recover 6 months wages as damages for someone who was making $24,000/year. A lawyer wouldn't take such a case if he or she was only going to make $3000 as a fee.

If you want to create an environment in which every minor grievance is now a basis for an actual lawsuit, then by all means enact fee shifting rules.

Well, now we know where John Edwards got to.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

It's a mystery all right. Why do libstains, especially the most condescending, arrogant and pompous ones, seem to have so much knowledge about what goes on on "right wing radio." I should think they would amuse themselves some other way.

You have to admit they don't change their discussions very often. And just like Fox news, they are the most entertaining. Plus Jason Lewis is alright.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

The "fee shifting" SJHovey brings up is pretty clearly a strawman - nobody would seriously propose that. (would they?)

I think it's pretty common sense that the intent of a "loser pays" reform would be:

1) If the plaintiff wins, he gets the award from the suit and has to pay his lawyers out of the award, keeping anything left over for himself. The defendant pays his own lawyers plus the amount of the award. This is exactly how it works now.
2) If the plaintiff loses, he pays his lawyer fees (if any - none if his attorney is working on a pure contingency basis) PLUS the defendant's (reasonable) lawyer fees as apportioned by the judge.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

It's a mystery all right. Why do libstains, especially the most condescending, arrogant and pompous ones, seem to have so much knowledge about what goes on on "right wing radio." I should think they would amuse themselves some other way.

That would certainly explain why they're always ****ed off. They're masochists.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

It's a mystery all right. Why do libstains, especially the most condescending, arrogant and pompous ones, seem to have so much knowledge about what goes on on "right wing radio." I should think they would amuse themselves some other way.
Like spreading their toxic, bitter, hate filled insecurities and bigotry on a hockey message board daily because they're a withered old zero?
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Did anyone hear about how Brandon Raub was committed to psychiatric treatment for posting an anti-Obama message on his Facebook page? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/21/brandon-j-raub-marine-detained_n_1817484.html

Stalin did this when he took power, except he conscripted executions and hard Siberian labour. The media, for years, has been placing an iron curtain by showing only American happenings. We are slowly becoming a fascist USSR.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Got discussed in the Aurora movie massacre thread last month because he included comments about beheading people on the facebook and it sounded more like they committed a guy who was debating going out and committing his own atrocity as opposed to political speech.

Pretty sure there wasn't any agreement on whether this was a proper action or overreaction to recent events.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Got discussed in the Aurora movie massacre thread last month because he included comments about beheading people on the facebook and it sounded more like they committed a guy who was debating going out and committing his own atrocity as opposed to political speech.

Pretty sure there wasn't any agreement on whether this was a proper action or overreaction to recent events.

C'mon, threats about beheading are clearly anti-Obama postings given his known support of the head cartel.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Got discussed in the Aurora movie massacre thread last month because he included comments about beheading people on the facebook and it sounded more like they committed a guy who was debating going out and committing his own atrocity as opposed to political speech.

Pretty sure there wasn't any agreement on whether this was a proper action or overreaction to recent events.

It sounds like they finally released him, but who knows what damage was done to him by the doctors. They go through these procedures just quickly enough to make any court order ineffective. http://communities.washingtontimes..../judge-orders-brandon-raub-released-hospital/
 
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