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Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

joecct said:
WW-I. Civil War tactics vs. modern weaponry = senseless slaughter.
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Which is ironic, because the Civil War was Revolutionary War tactics vs. modern (for the time) weaponry = senseless slaughter.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Craig P. said:
Which is ironic, because the Civil War was Revolutionary War tactics vs. modern (for the time) weaponry = senseless slaughter.
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Pretty much every war has started out with the same tactics as the prior one ended with, while in the interim the tech has improved.

Battleships were useless in WW2. Carriers will probably all be sunk in the first ten minutes of the next war. So it goes.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Kepler said:
Pretty much every war has started out with the same tactics as the prior one ended with, while in the interim the tech has improved.

Battleships were useless in WW2. Carriers will probably all be sunk in the first ten minutes of the next war. So it goes.
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Adm. Doenitz would be proud.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Kepler said:
Pretty much every war has started out with the same tactics as the prior one ended with, while in the interim the tech has improved.

Battleships were useless in WW2. Carriers will probably all be sunk in the first ten minutes of the next war. So it goes.
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And a military genius on top of everything else. I'm impressed. And since we're the only ones with a fleet of carriers, what you mean to say is our carriers will "probably all be sunk in the first ten minutes of the next war." Does that include the ones that are always being refitted here at home? Who's going to sink them all? And how are they going to do it? And if you've got it figured out, what makes you think the Navy is unaware of the dangers? Also, apparantly, not able or willing to do anything about it?

Watching a couple of reruns of "The World at War" doesn't make you an expert on anything, as your last post clearly demonstrates.

And that meme about each war starting with the tactics from the previous war is an ignorant falsehood. The kind of thing libstains say to impress their friends at McGovern rallies. It was proven wrong in Gulf War I when we used weapons and tactics the world had never seen before to humble, humiliate and destroy "the third largest army in the world." As one wag said, after Gulf War I, Hussein had the second largest army in Iraq. The "hangar queen" Apaches and Warthogs did a job on the Basra highway. So one sided that Bush I called off the dogs. And didn't the Wehrmacht have a couple of new wrinkles for the French?
 
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Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

I think our carriers will last far longer than Kepler is predicting. The anti-missile systems on these ships now are just incredible. Not to mention that would require getting through the escort ships and aircraft as well.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

dxmnkd316 said:
I think our carriers will last far longer than Kepler is predicting. The anti-missile systems on these ships now are just incredible. Not to mention that would require getting through the escort ships and aircraft as well.
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In Houston, our business reporter was a retired Navy Captain, graduate of Annapolis, who had commanded a guided missile frigate. He said the mission of the air wing and the escort vessels is to "sanitize" the area around a carrier. It's not like we're unaware of the tempting target these bad boys present. And it's not like we're just going to sit around while somebody takes shots. Among other things, the attractiveness of carriers as targets is why they always sortie with a nuclear attack submarine, just to keep the bast*ards honest.

This guy was also very critical of the captain of the Stark, a vessel identical to the one he commanded. The captain was literally in the crapper when an air attack materialized. The Stark took two Exocet hits that killed 37 sailors. Our guy said the XO's only job is to get the captain into CIC. This captain failed to activate his Vulcan/Phalanx anti-missile system. This radar controlled gatling gun was high on the stern. The prescribed tactic is to turn away from the threat, to reduce the profile of the ship and unmask the gun, so that the incoming missile heads toward it like a catcher's mitt. The captain did none of these things and the Stark was hit. He also failed to employ other defensive systems. Modern ships are made of aluminum and a sea skimmer causes damage, but far worse is the resulting fire.
 
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Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

A cousin of mine is on the Reagan. Some of the things he tells me about that ship and its defenses is just astounding. Much less those on the carrier support group.

Between the CSGs, the Phalanx, and the SeaRAM last-resort weapons systems, you have to make one herculean effort to get to a carrier.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

dxmnkd316 said:
A cousin of mine is on the Reagan. Some of the things he tells me about that ship and its defenses is just astounding. Much less those on the carrier support group.

Between the CSGs, the Phalanx, and the SeaRAM last-resort weapons systems, you have to make one herculean effort to get to a carrier.
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Some years back, Tom Clancy did a column about the new Kirov-class soviet cruisers. The conventional wisdom was they were very dangerous. Clancy interviewed the skipper of an LA class attack submarine (think Bart Mancuso in "Hunt for Red October) who said when he sees a Kirov, he sees a Navy Cross waiting to happen.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

Old Pio said:
Some years back, Tom Clancy did a column about the new Kirov-class soviet cruisers. The conventional wisdom was they were very dangerous. Clancy interviewed the skipper of an LA class attack submarine (think Bart Mancuso in "Hunt for Red October) who said when he sees a Kirov, he sees a Navy Cross waiting to happen.
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Ha, that's a pretty fantastic line.
 
Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

dxmnkd316 said:
Ha, that's a pretty fantastic line.
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The Military Channel has done a series on designing of the next generation of carriers, which is evidently pretty far advanced. I had to look up seaRAM. Interesting combination of technologies. And like the Vulcan, has to be turned on (which the captain of the Stark failed to do) before it can be effective. I'd imagine the chance that the next captain under attack won't activate the system is pretty small.
 
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Re: Obama XXIV: Forward ... pause ... rewind ... play

5mn_Major said:
No we can't know.

I am of the opinion that if powerful nutball leaders happen in nutball countries, a nuke might get thrown (which of course would be horrible). But the armed force of a million followers will not happen. Again China doesn't do it, too rich, too happy. Russia doesn't do it, nobody it could beat in a war and the people would never support it.

Many middle eastern countries have too few people and don't have multiple millions in their army...and those that do are surrounded by other Muslim countries with their own fanatics. They don't trust other middle eastern countries...and often they don't like those in their same country. And in the end were they amazingly able to get a force together...who do they invade? India? With a billion people, no. Russia? Ask the Germans/French about invading Russia. Africa? I'm not sure why they would invade Kenya. Europe? Ten times the economy and 100x the technology, no.

The rich are too rich for conventional war. The poor are incapable of it (except for terror and a throwing a nuke). That's the way I see it going forward.
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This is why Iran is the danger that it is. They're not interested in Global domination, no matter how much they curse the Great Satan. They want more influence in their backyard, just like Persia did during the great game. They fiddled in Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, and Central Asia. I can see them going after those little chunks as well as trying to expand west (another Iran-Iraq war anyone?)

They dislike the US because we stand in their way of going after the Arabian peninsula. If we weren't there the only ones who could stop them would be the Turks. And right now, I don't see Turkey as really having the stomach for all out war. They're doing too well economically to screw it up. Now if Iran goes through Iraq and pairs up with Syria...hold on to your hats.
 
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