theprofromdover
The Original Dope Detector
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
Someone's OJ was bitter this morning.
Someone's OJ was bitter this morning.
USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
- Status
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
Again, that's the point. As new generations drift further and further away from values/culture rooted in a specific time/place, the things that the crabs are ******ing about also drift over time with them.
To be honest, I don't see a lot of difference between today's crabby old guy, and the crabby old guy of 1950. Maybe crabby old guy of 1950 is more likely to use racial slurs.
At the end of the day though, both generations of crabby old guy think that the current generation is dumber, lazier, and more morally corrupt than theirs.
Again, that's the point. As new generations drift further and further away from values/culture rooted in a specific time/place, the things that the crabs are ******ing about also drift over time with them.
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
This is actually an incorrect statement. A study came out recently (which I'll try to link when I have time) that showed people in fact don't become more conservative as they get older.
EDIT: Found it:
Amidst the bipartisan banter of election season, there persists an enduring belief that people get more conservative as they age -- making older people more likely to vote for Republican candidates.
Ongoing research, however, fails to back up the stereotype. While there is some evidence that today's seniors may be more conservative than today's youth, that's not because older folks are more conservative than they use to be. Instead, our modern elders likely came of age at a time when the political situation favored more conservative views.
In fact, studies show that people may actually get more liberal over time when it comes to certain kinds of beliefs. That suggests that we are not pre-determined to get stodgy, set in our ways or otherwise more inflexible in our retirement years.
Contrary to popular belief, old age can be an open-minded and enlightening time.
"Pigeonholing older people into these rigid attitude boxes or conservative boxes is not a good idea," said Nick Dangelis, a sociologist and gerontologist at the University of Vermont in Burlington.
"Rather, when they were born, what experiences they had growing up, as well as political, social and economic events have a lot to do with how people behave," he said. "Our results are showing that these have profound effects."
Early in American history, elders ran the country's governmental, religious and political institutions, and they were revered and even feared by younger generations. But those reins of power began to loosen in the early 1800s, Dangelis said. By the middle of that century, society's focus had turned to the value of youth, as expressed by Thoreau and the Romantics, who often emphasized the negatives of old age.
As young people gained power, they gave the nation a refreshing sense of freedom and progress. By the turn of the 20th century, people had come to see old age as a social problem. In many ways, we have yet to overcome that stereotype.
Today, the image is ubiquitous in popular culture: A rigid gray-haired grump, who is closed-minded and set in his or her curmudgeonly ways. To some extent, that belief emerged from a real observation: Surveys that ask about attitudes towards things like premarital sex or race relations reveal that people older than 60 express more conservative views than people between the ages of 25 and 39. By extension came the assumption that older people used to be more liberal.
The problem with these studies, Dangelis said, is that they compare two demographics at one moment in time without offering a picture of the older cohort when they were younger. So, in a 2007 paper in the journal American Sociological Review, Dangelis and colleagues started to address that problem.
Using surveys taken between 1972 and 2004, the researchers found that groups of people actually became more tolerant, not more conservative, after age 60 -- calling into question some enduring myths about old age. Survey questions addressed attitudes about boundaries of privacy (such as the right to die), historically subordinate groups (such as women and Blacks) and civil liberties (for groups like atheists).
But that study had limitations, too. For one thing, each survey included a different set of people. So the researchers could compare the attitudes of people who were 25 in 1972, for example, with the attitudes of people who were 35 in 1982.
What's still missing, though, are long-term studies that actually follow individuals over time to see how their beliefs change.
In lieu of that kind of research, which is too difficult to do, researchers are now using complicated statistics to tease apart the effects of getting older from the effects of being a certain age at a certain moment in time.
Results, which are just starting to emerge, suggest that each belief follows its own complicated pattern. Seniors seem to have become more liberal about subordinate groups, for example, but more conservative about civil liberties.
Overall, what's happening in society at large as people come of age seems to matter most in determining the starting point for their core beliefs, said Karl Pillemer, a sociologist and gerontologist at Cornell University, who conducted more than 1,000 in-depth interviews with seniors for his book, "30 Lessons for Living: Tried and True Advice from the Wisest Americans." From there, people's attitudes can evolve as they age. And flexibility often trumps rigidity.
"Older people said very surprising things about being old," Pillemer said. "One of those things was that old age was a quest for adventure and a time to try new things. Many older people describe themselves as feeling freer or clearer."
Late in life, his research shows, people often become more open, more tolerant, and more appreciative of compassion. Even if they started out conservative, they may become less extreme in their conservatism.
"Many describe themselves as open to ideas or open to new ways of thinking, and they come back to a sense of much greater tolerance for different points of view," he said. "I had someone say, 'I used to think I was always right, but now that I'm 80, I'm not so sure I'm always right.'"
Tags: American History, Generations, Political Issues, Voters
This is actually an incorrect statement. A study came out recently (which I'll try to link when I have time) that showed people in fact don't become more conservative as they get older.
EDIT: Found it:
Amidst the bipartisan banter of election season, there persists an enduring belief that people get more conservative as they age -- making older people more likely to vote for Republican candidates.
Ongoing research, however, fails to back up the stereotype. While there is some evidence that today's seniors may be more conservative than today's youth, that's not because older folks are more conservative than they use to be. Instead, our modern elders likely came of age at a time when the political situation favored more conservative views.
In fact, studies show that people may actually get more liberal over time when it comes to certain kinds of beliefs. That suggests that we are not pre-determined to get stodgy, set in our ways or otherwise more inflexible in our retirement years.
Contrary to popular belief, old age can be an open-minded and enlightening time.
"Pigeonholing older people into these rigid attitude boxes or conservative boxes is not a good idea," said Nick Dangelis, a sociologist and gerontologist at the University of Vermont in Burlington.
"Rather, when they were born, what experiences they had growing up, as well as political, social and economic events have a lot to do with how people behave," he said. "Our results are showing that these have profound effects."
Early in American history, elders ran the country's governmental, religious and political institutions, and they were revered and even feared by younger generations. But those reins of power began to loosen in the early 1800s, Dangelis said. By the middle of that century, society's focus had turned to the value of youth, as expressed by Thoreau and the Romantics, who often emphasized the negatives of old age.
As young people gained power, they gave the nation a refreshing sense of freedom and progress. By the turn of the 20th century, people had come to see old age as a social problem. In many ways, we have yet to overcome that stereotype.
Today, the image is ubiquitous in popular culture: A rigid gray-haired grump, who is closed-minded and set in his or her curmudgeonly ways. To some extent, that belief emerged from a real observation: Surveys that ask about attitudes towards things like premarital sex or race relations reveal that people older than 60 express more conservative views than people between the ages of 25 and 39. By extension came the assumption that older people used to be more liberal.
The problem with these studies, Dangelis said, is that they compare two demographics at one moment in time without offering a picture of the older cohort when they were younger. So, in a 2007 paper in the journal American Sociological Review, Dangelis and colleagues started to address that problem.
Using surveys taken between 1972 and 2004, the researchers found that groups of people actually became more tolerant, not more conservative, after age 60 -- calling into question some enduring myths about old age. Survey questions addressed attitudes about boundaries of privacy (such as the right to die), historically subordinate groups (such as women and Blacks) and civil liberties (for groups like atheists).
But that study had limitations, too. For one thing, each survey included a different set of people. So the researchers could compare the attitudes of people who were 25 in 1972, for example, with the attitudes of people who were 35 in 1982.
What's still missing, though, are long-term studies that actually follow individuals over time to see how their beliefs change.
In lieu of that kind of research, which is too difficult to do, researchers are now using complicated statistics to tease apart the effects of getting older from the effects of being a certain age at a certain moment in time.
Results, which are just starting to emerge, suggest that each belief follows its own complicated pattern. Seniors seem to have become more liberal about subordinate groups, for example, but more conservative about civil liberties.
Overall, what's happening in society at large as people come of age seems to matter most in determining the starting point for their core beliefs, said Karl Pillemer, a sociologist and gerontologist at Cornell University, who conducted more than 1,000 in-depth interviews with seniors for his book, "30 Lessons for Living: Tried and True Advice from the Wisest Americans." From there, people's attitudes can evolve as they age. And flexibility often trumps rigidity.
"Older people said very surprising things about being old," Pillemer said. "One of those things was that old age was a quest for adventure and a time to try new things. Many older people describe themselves as feeling freer or clearer."
Late in life, his research shows, people often become more open, more tolerant, and more appreciative of compassion. Even if they started out conservative, they may become less extreme in their conservatism.
"Many describe themselves as open to ideas or open to new ways of thinking, and they come back to a sense of much greater tolerance for different points of view," he said. "I had someone say, 'I used to think I was always right, but now that I'm 80, I'm not so sure I'm always right.'"
Tags: American History, Generations, Political Issues, Voters
Last edited:
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
Yup, I've seen a lot more people I know move to be more conservative as they grow older than move the other direction. Another thing that tends to move people to be more conservative is when they start families and look around them and consider more seriously what kind of society their kids will have to grow up and live in.
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
True. But this ignores the major demographic trends. Older conservatives may continue to keep up with minorities...but for how long. Also, baby boomers have had a major impact on the last decade yet their influence won't last forever.
Youre a good poster...but soo wrong on this. The guy in the cave is po'd off in any case. Its the hearts and minds of the average person at stake here (the military reached that opinion about 50 years ago)...and regret does earn sympathy. And no this is not a first amendment issue as some mistakenly think. Just as with the KKK and Westboro...actions can be legal but we can regret them nonetheless.
True. But this ignores the major demographic trends. Older conservatives may continue to keep up with minorities...but for how long. Also, baby boomers have had a major impact on the last decade yet their influence won't last forever.
Youre a good poster...but soo wrong on this. The guy in the cave is po'd off in any case. Its the hearts and minds of the average person at stake here (the military reached that opinion about 50 years ago)...and regret does earn sympathy. And no this is not a first amendment issue as some mistakenly think. Just as with the KKK and Westboro...actions can be legal but we can regret them nonetheless.
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
Ummm...guys, while I appreciate individual observations as much as the next person, the bottom line is collectively people aren't getting more conservative as they get older, they always held conservative views even in their younger years.
Ummm...guys, while I appreciate individual observations as much as the next person, the bottom line is collectively people aren't getting more conservative as they get older, they always held conservative views even in their younger years.
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
So somehow your individual observation is fact. You make me chuckle.
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
Hmm...would you not say that having children and a mortgage payment makes a person more fiscally conservative? that when one switches over from having someone else foot most of the bills to becoming responsible to pay the bills oneself, nothing changes?
Hmm...would you not say that having children and a mortgage payment makes a person more fiscally conservative? that when one switches over from having someone else foot most of the bills to becoming responsible to pay the bills oneself, nothing changes?
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
I wouldn't say that at all. How many people with mortages and kids have bought houses they couldn't afford, took equity out of their homes to go on vacation, go to casinos on the credit card and have 5 cards maxed out where they're only paying the minimum balance? That's not college kids doing most of that. Its your so-called fiscally responsible adults.
Where you may be getting confused is with the WWII generation, people who are now in their 80's. They are extremely fiscally conservative but that wasn't a result of getting older. It was instilled in them at a very young age as they lived through the Great Depression and it stayed with them.
Bob, I already posted a study on this issue that has nothing to do with my observations vs yours. I'd suggest you go back and read it and then take it up with the authors.
I wouldn't say that at all. How many people with mortages and kids have bought houses they couldn't afford, took equity out of their homes to go on vacation, go to casinos on the credit card and have 5 cards maxed out where they're only paying the minimum balance? That's not college kids doing most of that. Its your so-called fiscally responsible adults.
Where you may be getting confused is with the WWII generation, people who are now in their 80's. They are extremely fiscally conservative but that wasn't a result of getting older. It was instilled in them at a very young age as they lived through the Great Depression and it stayed with them.
Bob, I already posted a study on this issue that has nothing to do with my observations vs yours. I'd suggest you go back and read it and then take it up with the authors.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
(1) More property. Young people tend to have higher ideals about giving people an equal shot. The older you get, the more property you accumulate, and the more your attention turns to protecting what's yours. Essentially, older people are more "selfish," in the sense that they have higher bills and more things depending upon them, and they become more invested in looking after number one.
(2) The moving social backdrop. 90 year olds grew up when Jews and Catholics were resented and feared like Muslims are today. 70 years olds grew up when women were considered flighty decorations not to be taken seriously. 50 years olds grew up when blacks were considered either stupid or violent. 30 year olds grew up when gays were considered worthy of scorn and schoolyard bullying. Because America works, the bigotries we were raised with make us embarrassing socially conservative relics when we are old.
A couple reasons why people may become more conservative as they get older:
(1) More property. Young people tend to have higher ideals about giving people an equal shot. The older you get, the more property you accumulate, and the more your attention turns to protecting what's yours. Essentially, older people are more "selfish," in the sense that they have higher bills and more things depending upon them, and they become more invested in looking after number one.
(2) The moving social backdrop. 90 year olds grew up when Jews and Catholics were resented and feared like Muslims are today. 70 years olds grew up when women were considered flighty decorations not to be taken seriously. 50 years olds grew up when blacks were considered either stupid or violent. 30 year olds grew up when gays were considered worthy of scorn and schoolyard bullying. Because America works, the bigotries we were raised with make us embarrassing socially conservative relics when we are old.
FadeToBlack&Gold
8647
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
Without a link to a source, that study holds about as much water as a Wikipedia article. Just a thought.
Without a link to a source, that study holds about as much water as a Wikipedia article. Just a thought.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
Twas ever thus.
I'm sure the first ape generation that left the trees was called lazy and spoiled by their parents. "Why when I was your age I used to swing through the trees to and from school four miles a day -- uphill both ways!"
The crabby old guy is evergreen. My parents are, for better or worse, exhibit A in the Greatest Generation -- lived through the Depression, fought in WW2 ("the big one"), bettered themselves through the GI bill and pulled their family from second generation immigrant bohunk to college educated, well, bohunk I guess... And they remember crabby old man sitting on the porch in the 40's telling about how it's been all down hill since the Spanish American War and kids today have no respect, work ethic, blah blah blah.To be honest, I don't see a lot of difference between today's crabby old guy, and the crabby old guy of 1950. Maybe crabby old guy of 1950 is more likely to use racial slurs.
At the end of the day though, both generations of crabby old guy think that the current generation is dumber, lazier, and more morally corrupt than theirs.
Twas ever thus.
I'm sure the first ape generation that left the trees was called lazy and spoiled by their parents. "Why when I was your age I used to swing through the trees to and from school four miles a day -- uphill both ways!"
Last edited:
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
Well, you posted some study by some academic from the liberal bastion of Vermont. Guess we should just close the thread down, as there's nothing further to talk or think about and there certainly couldn't be any possibility of there being valid alternative views or understandings.
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
Ask and ye shall receive:
http://news.discovery.com/human/voter-conservative-aging-liberal-120119.html
Oh, and Bob, what kind of un-American person trashes The Discovery Channel? What are you, some kind of communist?
Ask and ye shall receive:
http://news.discovery.com/human/voter-conservative-aging-liberal-120119.html
Oh, and Bob, what kind of un-American person trashes The Discovery Channel? What are you, some kind of communist?
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
I did live in the same dorm as a guy whose uncle was a vice president (I think) of the US Communist party, IIRC. In today's world, that probably is enough to charge me for Stalin's starvation of the Ukraine or something.
So the Discovery Channel is now our prime source for determining social/political trends in our nation? This just gets better.
I did live in the same dorm as a guy whose uncle was a vice president (I think) of the US Communist party, IIRC. In today's world, that probably is enough to charge me for Stalin's starvation of the Ukraine or something.
Foxton
Banned
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
Lacking any substance of his own, Bob Gray reaches deep within his bag of tricks, past his abortion probulator, and pulls out 'dismiss out of hand'! His argument is super ineffective against those with cognitive abilities but will be loudly parroted by those without!
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
That's what I love about America. No matter what the argument is or who did the study you can always SCREAM bias and it makes it all go away. Even science has been corrupted in this way.
All that's left is math. And that's on its way to having bias just like everything else. Once that happens all bets are off.
That's what I love about America. No matter what the argument is or who did the study you can always SCREAM bias and it makes it all go away. Even science has been corrupted in this way.
All that's left is math. And that's on its way to having bias just like everything else. Once that happens all bets are off.
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
Yup, even simple math gets blasted nowadays.
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
I didn't think a guy of Bob's age could spin this much without getting dizzy, but no big deal. I put a study out there which people can debate or cry and run off over, but I personally found it be a thoughtful study on an issue that tends to get taken for granted as being true (older people get more conservative) but which may not be backed up by actual data. People are more than welcome to post a study that shows the opposite if they'd like.
I didn't think a guy of Bob's age could spin this much without getting dizzy, but no big deal. I put a study out there which people can debate or cry and run off over, but I personally found it be a thoughtful study on an issue that tends to get taken for granted as being true (older people get more conservative) but which may not be backed up by actual data. People are more than welcome to post a study that shows the opposite if they'd like.
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!
I would posit it could be the family. I have no evidence on me now, but I thought I recalled that single people are more likely to stay Dem even as they get older. One school of thought is that when you're single, we're all us. When you're a family and, you get protective. The paternal instinct you know. Frankly, I don't know how someone overseeing a family has the same time to keep up with events that singles do.
Just a thought...
I would posit it could be the family. I have no evidence on me now, but I thought I recalled that single people are more likely to stay Dem even as they get older. One school of thought is that when you're single, we're all us. When you're a family and, you get protective. The paternal instinct you know. Frankly, I don't know how someone overseeing a family has the same time to keep up with events that singles do.
Just a thought...
- Status