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Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

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Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

The most interesting thing to me about the Presidential election coming up is the dynamic between the Republicans trying to destroy themselves (see kill Medicare) and the inability of either party to bother getting the economy stabilized (what happened to jobs, jobs, jobs?). Usually if the economy is bad the President gets a walk, but it might not happen this time.

More good Economic news.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

unofan said:
$140T in long term liabilities is about 10x national GDP. As long term debt goes, that's not unsustainable. Uncomfortable, sure. Higher than we should accept? Sure. But it's still doable.
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I shook my head at the 86% tax increase. If people think the Clinton tax increase was the "largest in history", they have no idea what they're in for when all these pension funds go bust and the bill comes due. Then again, we'll probably just try to inflate this problem away like we're doing now - and then cook the books to deny inflation is even occurring. I hope those of you who like traveling abroad do so soon, because at this rate, none of us will be able to afford it in 10 years as the dollar value gets flushed down the toilet.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Bob Gray said:
Not another argument that one side or the other is dumb. :eek: Both sides have smart and dumb people. But, it's easy to deride folks you disagree with as simply being dumb. But, that's both lazy and inaccurate.
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Bob, this is very true in general, but in this specific event you have a party where Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, and Donald Trump are considered possible presidential nominees. Even one of those people being in the discussion should be completely insane. Dan Quayle would be considered a genius by current GOP standards, and that absolutely reflects on the people supporting those candidates.

It's early and hopefully this is just celebutante name recog, but good God, if any of those folks gets anywhere in the primaries they should abolish the party for lack of seriousness.
 
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Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Bob Gray said:
Not another argument that one side or the other is dumb. :eek: Both sides have smart and dumb people. But, it's easy to deride folks you disagree with as simply being dumb. But, that's both lazy and inaccurate.
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There are intellectual conservatives. I just doubt that they have any power within the GOP at this point in time.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Kepler said:
Bob, this is very true in general, but in this specific event you have a party where Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, and Donald Trump are considered possible presidential nominees. Even one of those people being in the discussion should be completely insane. Dan Quayle would be considered a genius by current GOP standards, and that absolutely reflects on the people supporting those candidates.

It's early and hopefully this is just celebutante name recog, but good God, if any of those folks gets anywhere in the primaries they should abolish the party for lack of seriousness.
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There have been plenty of dicey candidates on both sides of the aisle over the years. I just find it ridiculous when someone tries to paint one side of the political spectrum as stupid overall. There's plenty of criticism to be leveled at both sides of the spectrum, but I don't think there's some great divide in the intellectual level of either side. But, I know it's a big piece of the Dems' PR machine to paint the Reps' candidates as stupid and all, and some of the simpler folk out there will buy into it without much thought.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Bakunin said:
I shook my head at the 86% tax increase. If people think the Clinton tax increase was the "largest in history", they have no idea what they're in for when all these pension funds go bust and the bill comes due. Then again, we'll probably just try to inflate this problem away like we're doing now - and then cook the books to deny inflation is even occurring. I hope those of you who like traveling abroad do so soon, because at this rate, none of us will be able to afford it in 10 years as the dollar value gets flushed down the toilet.
Click to expand...

Ten years? You're mighty optimistic! The dollar is already tumbling and I don't see any reason why it won't continue to in the near term future.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

I don't know why intelligence is automatically considered to be such a good thing. The people involved in the near-destruction of the global financial system were certainly extremely bright (the concepts of mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps aren't exactly "Sarah Palin-level thinking"). Bernanke, Greenspan, and their fellow federal reserve stooges aren't exactly dense, either - yet their policies inflated two horrendously damaging asset bubbles and are now fueling dollar depreciation and inflation.

Comically stupid politicians are certainly easy to make fun of - but when you get right down to it, how much damage do they do when compared to misguided brainy types?
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Bakunin said:
I don't know why intelligence is automatically considered to be such a good thing. The people involved in the near-destruction of the global financial system were certainly extremely bright (the concepts of mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps aren't exactly "Sarah Palin-level thinking"). Bernanke, Greenspan, and their fellow federal reserve stooges aren't exactly dense, either - yet their policies inflated two horrendously damaging asset bubbles and are now fueling dollar depreciation and inflation.

Comically stupid politicians are certainly easy to make fun of - but when you get right down to it, how much damage do they do when compared to misguided brainy types?
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I'll disagree here somewhat. The real guys (private enterprise) that brought down the financial markets got their money out on time. That's about as smart as it gets. The guys you're talking about should have been more heavily involved in oversight and weren't. They probably weren't dumb or smart in that regard just naive.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Bakunin said:
I don't know why intelligence is automatically considered to be such a good thing. The people involved in the near-destruction of the global financial system were certainly extremely bright (the concepts of mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps aren't exactly "Sarah Palin-level thinking"). Bernanke, Greenspan, and their fellow federal reserve stooges aren't exactly dense, either - yet their policies inflated two horrendously damaging asset bubbles and are now fueling dollar depreciation and inflation.

Comically stupid politicians are certainly easy to make fun of - but when you get right down to it, how much damage do they do when compared to misguided brainy types?
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I agree with Scooby. The folks on wall street had some idea that an unregulated derivative market was dangerous, but why both to change anything if you are making a ton of money? Plus when you have friends in the presidential cabinet, and on the federal reserve, it seems like these guys can get away with anything. Bonuses on some wall street banks have probably gone up since 2008. How many of these guys have been charged?

These folk are intelligent. They got their profits, and continue to do so unimpeded. Its almost as if there is a set of laws for people like us, and another set of laws for people like them.

I digress.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Bob Gray said:
There have been plenty of dicey candidates on both sides of the aisle over the years. I just find it ridiculous when someone tries to paint one side of the political spectrum as stupid overall. There's plenty of criticism to be leveled at both sides of the spectrum, but I don't think there's some great divide in the intellectual level of either side. But, I know it's a big piece of the Dems' PR machine to paint the Reps' candidates as stupid and all, and some of the simpler folk out there will buy into it without much thought.
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And a big part of the conservative PR machine is to paint Dems as stupid. It's also incredibly ironic that in decrying labeling people stupid you use "simple" as an insult. ;)

I was having a political discussion with conservative friends a few days ago and we arrived at the following conclusion: the only truly unpardonable offense we find in our interlocutors is when we think they are making assumptions about us based on their generalizations. If somebody listens to me and then, based on what I've said, concludes I'm wrong, or even that I'm stupid, it won't make me happy but I can at least walk away not taking too much offense -- they just have different ideas or values from me. But if somebody thinks to themselves, "well, this guy is a liberal, therefore he is X, Y, and Z," that's when I lose all respect and just think they're a wind-up toy.

Demagogues are always explaining "when (the opponent) says that, they really mean this," because their hatred can only take hold if the listener is programmed with thought-terminating circuit breakers that trip whenever they encounter cognitive dissonance.

We all have an implicit sandwich board reading "don't assume you know anything about me other than what I've told you." Real offense starts when somebody starts trying to "fill in the blanks." And of course, since we're all human, and that's a large part of how human intelligence makes sense of the chaos of the world, we're all always doing it to some extent, so offense is rampant. :)
 
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Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Bob Gray said:
There have been plenty of dicey candidates on both sides of the aisle over the years. I just find it ridiculous when someone tries to paint one side of the political spectrum as stupid overall. There's plenty of criticism to be leveled at both sides of the spectrum, but I don't think there's some great divide in the intellectual level of either side. But, I know it's a big piece of the Dems' PR machine to paint the Reps' candidates as stupid and all, and some of the simpler folk out there will buy into it without much thought.
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"We're smart, they're stupid" is the Orwellian "final commandment" of modern liberalism, and as a consequence, the modern Democrat party. Virtually every Republican president of my lifetime has been characterized as "too stupid": Ike, Ford, Reagan (especially Reagan) and Bush II (despite his better SAT's and grades at Yale than you know who). I've mentioned before, one name they leave off the "too stupid" list is Nixon. You'd have to be hitting the crack pretty hard to suggest the trickster was too stupid.

This is manifestly true, although I can't explain it. And no amount of "both sides do it" rationalization can change the facts. Look at the political threads. Is there any Republican/conservative phenomenon comparable to the daily, hourly, minute by minute slamming of Palin and Bachmann? The liberal posters are like middle school boys, sniggering over a purloined copy of Playboy. Have these ladies said some dumb things? You betcha. Are they alone in this regard? Not by a long shot. Yet you won't find dozens (hundreds?) of posts pointing out, and getting aroused by the gaffes of Democrats.

Palin is in a special category: nothing about her or her family is off limits. Make jokes about her "retarded" son? No probem. Any objection is dismissed as "false outrage," "the echo chamber," "she brings it on herself," "nobody reads Wonkette." Most of us agree the Obama "birther" nonsense is a silly distraction. Yet many liberals, including a well regarded columnist and blogger, assert this boy is really not Sarah Palin's child at all, despite irrefutable evidence that he is. I have no explanation for this phenomenon. But you don't have to be "looking for the pony" to acknowledge it.
 
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Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Pio,

You didn't have to go and make Scooby mad by bringing up questions regarding Obama to make your broader point.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Bob Gray said:
Pio,

You didn't have to go and make Scooby mad by bringing up questions regarding Obama to make your broader point.
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BHO makes my legs tingle. Or maybe it's just my underwear riding up.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Bob Gray said:
Pio,

You didn't have to go and make Scooby mad by bringing up questions regarding Obama to make your broader point.
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Again. You've got a brick wall for a head apparently. Yes, I lean left. I do. But, there is absolutely very little I like about Obama. My reaction to Old Pio's ridiculous diatribe on liberals had/has absolutely NOTHING to do with Barack Obama. I didn't vote for the man, I'm not going to vote for the man. Frankly having you equate everything I say to him is getting a little old. I don't equate everything you say to Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly do I? No. I suppose I could if you want me to.
 
Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

ScoobyDoo said:
Again. You've got a brick wall for a head apparently. Yes, I lean left. I do. But, there is absolutely very little I like about Obama. My reaction to Old Pio's ridiculous diatribe on liberals had/has absolutely NOTHING to do with Barack Obama. I didn't vote for the man, I'm not going to vote for the man. Frankly having you equate everything I say to him is getting a little old. I don't equate everything you say to Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly do I? No. I suppose I could if you want me to.
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My "diatribe" seems "ridiculous" to you because you think picking on three year old handicapped kids (at least Sarah Palin's three year old handicapped kid) is "fair comment." It's a gutter standard, but at least it's a standard.
 
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Re: Obama XXI: Kenyan Muslins are ruining this country!

Old Pio said:
Virtually every Republican president of my lifetime has been characterized as "too stupid": Ike, Ford, Reagan (especially Reagan) and Bush II (despite his better SAT's and grades at Yale than you know who).
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Are you saying Carter, Clinton and Obama haven't been slandered ceaselessly? Its called politics.
 
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