Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

The press wasn't the main point, which was that he's done a lot for his liberal base, just not all the things they want done, which is apparently why he's being compared to Richard Nixon.

I was comparing him to Nixon based on both intrusion into the economy and tax structure preference. Nixon backed price controls and flirted with proposing a guaranteed minimum income. That makes Obama look like Friedrich August Hayek. Nixon also started the ball rolling on arms limitation and there's Obama again, getting called a dirty socialist every step of the way of what would be mild standards for Ronald Reagan.

As far as what Obama has done for his liberal base, there's repealing DADT (which will be viewed someday as about as "liberal" as the Voting Rights Act) and there's HCR (the plan for which was virtually identical to the Republican plan of the 1990's, before they were taken prisoner by insane zombies, and which will be viewed someday as about as "liberal" as social security though, to be fair to you, I'm sure every administration will overhaul it until it's completely unrecognizable... well, actually, that's still social security. )

On everything else I can think of, Obama's governing as center or (though likely not by preference) even center-right. Not that you'd know it from all the seizures from the chattering classes (see what I did there? Easy, aint it?)

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Oh, BS.

I've said to social security a thousand times on here. You're the partisan not me if you believe that Paul Ryan's budget is anything other than a partisan hatchet job.

Not sure what you mean by "said to social security. But, I'm sure it's how your bipartisan, even though you almost never take the Dems or Obama to task, but somehow blast conservatives constantly. We've done that dance around where you think you are on issues and politics a thousand times. I tend to be conservative, but not always, and I have significant issues with the Republicans and a lot of things they've done. The Dems just tend to be even worse IMHO.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I was comparing him to Nixon based on both intrusion into the economy and tax structure preference. Nixon backed price controls and flirted with proposing a guaranteed minimum income. That makes Obama look like Friedrich August Hayek. Nixon also started the ball rolling on arms limitation and there's Obama again, getting called a dirty socialist every step of the way of what would be mild standards for Ronald Reagan.

As far as what Obama has done for his liberal base, there's repealing DADT (which will be viewed someday as about as "liberal" as the Voting Rights Act) and there's HRC (which will be viewed someday as about as "liberal" as social security though, to be fair to you, I'm sure every administration will overhaul it until it's completely unrecognizable... well, actually, that's still social security. )

On everything else I can think of, Obama's governing as center or (though likely not by preference) even center-right. Not that you'd know it from all the seizures from the chattering classes (see what I did there? Easy, aint it?)

So, Obama does a bunch of stuff for liberals, but in your eyes it's not really liberal stuff because someday it won't be viewed as liberal, so he's not really a liberal. That's a good bit of contortion you're undertaking. Don't throw out your back.

I don't think he's center-right on much of anything, part of it is just the realities of the job and the U.S. position in the world and all that sometimes you have to go with positions that you wouldn't choose if you had full latitude and a blank slate.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

So, Obama does a bunch of stuff for liberals, but in your eyes it's not really liberal stuff because someday it won't be viewed as liberal, so he's not really a liberal. That's a good bit of contortion you're undertaking. Don't throw out your back.

It's not a "bunch of stuff," though. It's 2 flipping things, only one of which was a "liberal" thing (gay equality is already so accepted by anybody under 50 that it's as dead a letter as women's suffrage).

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Not sure what you mean by "said to social security. But, I'm sure it's how your bipartisan, even though you almost never take the Dems or Obama to task, but somehow blast conservatives constantly. We've done that dance around where you think you are on issues and politics a thousand times. I tend to be conservative, but not always, and I have significant issues with the Republicans and a lot of things they've done. The Dems just tend to be even worse IMHO.

I've offered to gut SS and Medicare. Ryan is not gutting ANYTHING except clearly Democratic programs. There is no cut to defense, and any cuts to corporate welfare are offset by tax cuts.

Thus your support of his budget is partisan. Just like he is.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I don't think he's center-right on much of anything, part of it is just the realities of the job and the U.S. position in the world and all that sometimes you have to go with positions that you wouldn't choose if you had full latitude and a blank slate.

The rebuttal to that is one letter: Dubya. Granted, he exploited a national tragedy as cover, but he rammed a genuinely radical agenda down our throats without a hint of "the realities of the job" and acted like a little tinpot tyrant abroad despite "the U.S. position in the world." I actually thought the American political system would prevent that sort of horror prior to his administration, but given the right tripwires there's no protection at all: the President is one powerful muthafucka.

The only place he failed was privatizing social security (which in retrospect would have been pretty funny -- if the GOP had won that on a straight party-line vote they'd probably have gone the way of the Whigs with the crash).

And the next time the Unilateral Executive might be a lefty, so I wouldn't be too happy about it.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

It's not a "bunch of stuff," though. It's 2 flipping things, only one of which was a "liberal" thing (gay equality is already so accepted by anybody under 50 that it's as dead a letter as women's suffrage).

I just don't have all day to go back and comb through and make a big list for you, but you know as well as I do that he's done far more than just those two things.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I've offered to gut SS and Medicare. Ryan is not gutting ANYTHING except clearly Democratic programs. There is no cut to defense, and any cuts to corporate welfare are offset by tax cuts.

Thus your support of his budget is partisan. Just like he is.

He's a politician. You expect him to be totally nonpartisan? Fact is, you take him to task for proposing at least something to fix the budget, but don't take the Dems and Obama to task for not proposing anything to fix the budget. That tells me you're either hypocritical or a Dem supporter. Take your pick.

I do agree that Ryan's proposal would be better to tackle even more issues, including cutting defense spending signficantly. But, you choose to only focus on what he doesn't propose, while ignoring what he has proposed and the fact that he's actually interested in a subject that has been largely ignored by both sides of the aisle for far too long.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I just don't have all day to go back and comb through and make a big list for you, but you know as well as I do that he's done far more than just those two things.

LOL

He's used the left just like W used the right. He hasn't accomplished a single thing that wouldn't have happened anyway. His health care plan doesn't even count cause he caved on the public option.

Kepler's right. He's right of Nixon.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I just don't have all day to go back and comb through and make a big list for you, but you know as well as I do that he's done far more than just those two things.

"You know as well as I"? Jesus, Bob; don't even. I mean, really -- why even try to have a civil conversation when faced with BS like that.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

"You know as well as I"? Jesus, Bob; don't even. I mean, really -- why even try to have a civil conversation when faced with BS like that.

Yawn. Try contributing to the discussion to receive a longer response.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I just don't have all day to go back and comb through and make a big list for you, but you know as well as I do that he's done far more than just those two things.

Wait...I thought he hadn't accomplished anything, now you say he's accomplished a lot...get your talking points straight.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Wait...I thought he hadn't accomplished anything, now you say he's accomplished a lot...get your talking points straight.

Where you been? You're usually all over this stuff a lot quicker. I think you're confusing me with someone else, again.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Where you been? You're usually all over this stuff a lot quicker. I think you're confusing me with someone else, again.

Yeah, must have been someone else posting as Bob Gray over in the Elections 2012 thread.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Quid pro quo. Show me an instance of a Tea Partier willing to comprimise at all on a budgetary issue, and you might have a point. When they won't play ball, what's in it for anyone else to agree to any cuts when it only further emboldens them to maintain their hardline edge?

Again, The GOP originally proposed a $32 billion cut to this year's budget. The Dems have agreed to $33 billion, and it's still not good enough, because the goal line's shifted. The Tea Party is cheering for the government shutdown because they're that delusional.

Bingo...there is no compromise at this point. The loony side of both parties has taken foothold.

And Bob...not one liberal would agree with you on whether Obama has been a "good little liberal". He may be left of you and the people you support but he is nowhere near as to the left as Clinton was...he isnt even as far to the left as HE was in '08. If expanding government is all it takes to be a lefty then there hasnt been a true Righty since before Reagan. (and your mention of the gays is hilarious since they have been attacking him almost since day one about gay marraige and DADT and his promises he has yet to keep there)

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Yeah, must have been someone else posting as Bob Gray over in the Elections 2012 thread.

I guess you're locationally challenged. This stuff means what was posted in this thread, and you took longer than usual to harangue me.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I guess you're locationally challenged. This stuff means what was posted in this thread, and you took longer than usual to harangue me.

I apologize for not monitoring this thread 24/7 to correct your mistakes immediately.

Edit: Damm! 5 whole minutes passed between your post and my reply. I'll try to do better in the future.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Bingo...there is no compromise at this point. The loony side of both parties has taken foothold.

And Bob...not one liberal would agree with you on whether Obama has been a "good little liberal". He may be left of you and the people you support but he is nowhere near as to the left as Clinton was...he isnt even as far to the left as HE was in '08. If expanding government is all it takes to be a lefty then there hasnt been a true Righty since before Reagan. (and your mention of the gays is hilarious since they have been attacking him almost since day one about gay marraige and DADT and his promises he has yet to keep there)

Of course. The liberals thought Obama was going to bring paradise on earth after all the promises, hype, etc. The relationship was always doomed to sour, due to totally unrealistic assumptions on the part of liberals (same thing applies to the gay issues, where he has done a lot of what they wanted, just not everything, or fast enough to satisfy them). I remember talking to a neighbor during the campaign and I commented about how ridiculous both candidates were in claiming they'd do all this stuff, yet also balance the budget. She said that of course Obama said he had a cut for every dollar of new spending he was proposing, so of course he would do exactly that. Totally unrealistic. But, hey, it's good spin. He's had to be somewhat of a centrist for various reasons, but he also has times when his liberal tendencies are on full display if one pays attention.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I apologize for not monitoring this thread 24/7 to correct your mistakes immediately.

Edit: Damm! 5 whole minutes passed between your post and my reply. I'll try to do better in the future.

Usually you do seem to be monitoring my posts 24/7. You're slipping.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

but he also has times when his liberal tendencies are on full display if one pays attention to Fox "News".

Fixed.