dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
But what's better than "forced" "progress"?
But what's better than "forced" "progress"?
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Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
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Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
with no secret ballot, mandatory membership and dues collected by government. Call for Mr. de Tocqueville.
with no secret ballot, mandatory membership and dues collected by government. Call for Mr. de Tocqueville.
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Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
Calypso Louis says the US has no moral authority to intervene in Libya adding that BHO was "selected" and "elected" by j-e-w-s. What a p.o.s. that guy is:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-ap-us-farrakhan-civil-rights,0,1600860.story
Calypso Louis says the US has no moral authority to intervene in Libya adding that BHO was "selected" and "elected" by j-e-w-s. What a p.o.s. that guy is:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-ap-us-farrakhan-civil-rights,0,1600860.story
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
I always wonder whether a-holes like this or Pat Robertson or, back in the day, Jerry Falwell aren't just Westboro Baptist'ing us all.
I always wonder whether a-holes like this or Pat Robertson or, back in the day, Jerry Falwell aren't just Westboro Baptist'ing us all.
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
I'll add another one to the list: Billy James Hargis. Remember? 60's Southern fried televangelist of some significance whose career crashed in flames when a young woman undergoing premarital counseling announced she had "known" Rev. Hargis in a biblical sense. And her future husband announced he had, too. These confessions came on their wedding day. Oops. BTW, his son, BJH, II sings for the Houston Gilbert and Sullivan Society.
I don't defend Falwell, but it's a bit unfair to mention him in the same breath with Calypso Louis. I don't believe Falwell was ever implicated in a political murder. If she were still alive, Betty Shabazz would explain it. Plus, Calypso Louis and the beloved Cynthia McKinney are in a class by themselves when it comes to anti-semitism. And Falwell never peddled quack aids cures, and didn't have a "minister of health" in his organization who fronted the cruel fraud on poor co-religionists while at the same time encouraging them to eschew orthodox treatments. Because, as we all know, aids is a plot by "whitey" to kill off African Americans.
In the 80's Calypso Louis was coming to Houston for a hate-a-thon and I asked some AA reporter friends why black leaders in town didn't speak out against him. They said the dudes were scared of Calypso Louis, the same way you'd be scared of, say, Al Capone. People get dead around Calypso Louis.
I'll add another one to the list: Billy James Hargis. Remember? 60's Southern fried televangelist of some significance whose career crashed in flames when a young woman undergoing premarital counseling announced she had "known" Rev. Hargis in a biblical sense. And her future husband announced he had, too. These confessions came on their wedding day. Oops. BTW, his son, BJH, II sings for the Houston Gilbert and Sullivan Society.
I don't defend Falwell, but it's a bit unfair to mention him in the same breath with Calypso Louis. I don't believe Falwell was ever implicated in a political murder. If she were still alive, Betty Shabazz would explain it. Plus, Calypso Louis and the beloved Cynthia McKinney are in a class by themselves when it comes to anti-semitism. And Falwell never peddled quack aids cures, and didn't have a "minister of health" in his organization who fronted the cruel fraud on poor co-religionists while at the same time encouraging them to eschew orthodox treatments. Because, as we all know, aids is a plot by "whitey" to kill off African Americans.
In the 80's Calypso Louis was coming to Houston for a hate-a-thon and I asked some AA reporter friends why black leaders in town didn't speak out against him. They said the dudes were scared of Calypso Louis, the same way you'd be scared of, say, Al Capone. People get dead around Calypso Louis.
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Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
I was referring more to the "make the most incendiary public statement possible and then get rich off the ensuing media flap" effect that Falwell and Robertson were masters of (9/11 was caused by feminists, Katrina is punishment for gays, blah blah blah). WBC gives us a paradigm of con men who are nakedly in it for financial gain and Jerry and Pat may simply have been playing the same game. Using evangelical religion is a beautiful human shield because no matter the nature of any criticism leveled against them, they can immediately scream about the war on Christianity and 50 million boobs lap it up (buy their books, attend their seminars, watch their media, etc). And because of demographics, they even have access to government when the Republicans are in charge, and that of course opens up all sorts of other checking accounts (abstinence-only "health" programs? Ka-CHING!)
I was referring more to the "make the most incendiary public statement possible and then get rich off the ensuing media flap" effect that Falwell and Robertson were masters of (9/11 was caused by feminists, Katrina is punishment for gays, blah blah blah). WBC gives us a paradigm of con men who are nakedly in it for financial gain and Jerry and Pat may simply have been playing the same game. Using evangelical religion is a beautiful human shield because no matter the nature of any criticism leveled against them, they can immediately scream about the war on Christianity and 50 million boobs lap it up (buy their books, attend their seminars, watch their media, etc). And because of demographics, they even have access to government when the Republicans are in charge, and that of course opens up all sorts of other checking accounts (abstinence-only "health" programs? Ka-CHING!)
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
Understood. After the Reagan victory in '80 Falwell was strutting around taking major credit for the win because of the "Moral Majority." Somebody pointed out that a rooster who crows when the sun comes up can come to believe the sun comes up because he crows. Compared to his contemporaries, Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart (riding up and down the Airline Highway trolling for hookers in his sweat pants with the crotch cut out) I always thought Jerry was a cut above. And way smarter.
Understood. After the Reagan victory in '80 Falwell was strutting around taking major credit for the win because of the "Moral Majority." Somebody pointed out that a rooster who crows when the sun comes up can come to believe the sun comes up because he crows. Compared to his contemporaries, Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart (riding up and down the Airline Highway trolling for hookers in his sweat pants with the crotch cut out) I always thought Jerry was a cut above. And way smarter.
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
You really don't like us Christians do you? Or is it just the handful of high profile folks who are political and have had missteps, but you don't have an issue with the normal folks who go through life and try to do good to their neighbor and all?
You really don't like us Christians do you? Or is it just the handful of high profile folks who are political and have had missteps, but you don't have an issue with the normal folks who go through life and try to do good to their neighbor and all?
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
Christians are fine. Christianity can be an admirable way of looking at life and stresses many of the "angels of our better nature." It has limitations and a few unpleasant vestigial elements, but so does every philosophy.
There are con men (both high profile and local yokel) who use Christianity to get rich and they are worthy of nothing but scorn, and their use of Christianity as a whole to defend themselves is shameful.
Christians are fine. Christianity can be an admirable way of looking at life and stresses many of the "angels of our better nature." It has limitations and a few unpleasant vestigial elements, but so does every philosophy.
There are con men (both high profile and local yokel) who use Christianity to get rich and they are worthy of nothing but scorn, and their use of Christianity as a whole to defend themselves is shameful.
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Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
Thanks for the clarification. I can understand this perspective from you. I guess I mostly just see you blasting it, so I kinda figured you just didn't like any of us, rather than a few of the bad apples.
Thanks for the clarification. I can understand this perspective from you. I guess I mostly just see you blasting it, so I kinda figured you just didn't like any of us, rather than a few of the bad apples.
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
So tonight's big address to the nation will be delivered from the National Defense University.
Does this guy even know where the Oval Office is, or how to get in?
<embed src="http://cnettv.cnet.com/av/video/cbsnews/atlantis2/cbsnews_player_embed.swf" scale="noscale" salign="lt" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" background="#333333" width="425" height="279" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" FlashVars="si=254&uvpc=http://cnettv.cnet.com/av/video/cbsnews/atlantis2/uvp_cbsnews.xml&contentType=videoId&contentValue=50102310&ccEnabled=false&hdEnabled=false&fsEnabled=true&shareEnabled=false&dlEnabled=false&subEnabled=false&playlistDisplay=none&playlistType=none&playerWidth=425&playerHeight=239&vidWidth=425&vidHeight=239&autoplay=false&bbuttonDisplay=none&playOverlayText=PLAY%20CBS%20NEWS%20VIDEO&refreshMpuEnabled=true&shareUrl=http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7360779n&adEngine=dart&adPreroll=true&adPrerollType=PreContent&adPrerollValue=1" />
So tonight's big address to the nation will be delivered from the National Defense University.
Does this guy even know where the Oval Office is, or how to get in?
<embed src="http://cnettv.cnet.com/av/video/cbsnews/atlantis2/cbsnews_player_embed.swf" scale="noscale" salign="lt" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" background="#333333" width="425" height="279" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" FlashVars="si=254&uvpc=http://cnettv.cnet.com/av/video/cbsnews/atlantis2/uvp_cbsnews.xml&contentType=videoId&contentValue=50102310&ccEnabled=false&hdEnabled=false&fsEnabled=true&shareEnabled=false&dlEnabled=false&subEnabled=false&playlistDisplay=none&playlistType=none&playerWidth=425&playerHeight=239&vidWidth=425&vidHeight=239&autoplay=false&bbuttonDisplay=none&playOverlayText=PLAY%20CBS%20NEWS%20VIDEO&refreshMpuEnabled=true&shareUrl=http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7360779n&adEngine=dart&adPreroll=true&adPrerollType=PreContent&adPrerollValue=1" />
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
Sure, there are only a "few bad apples," but they tend to be very high profile and extremely wealthy. And every time one of these charletans is unmasked, someone asks the question about damaging the message. I think not. However, I continue to wonder about the poor souls who keep watching these clowns on TV (presumably sending them money) even after their peccadillos have been exposed. Bennie Hinn, anyone with the last name Roberts or Swaggert and my personal favorite, Robert Tilton. It's my understanding that in college Tilton used to entertain friends at parties with his gag "preacher" character. Only later he learned he could gin up a TV ministry featuring that character that at its peak was taking in 80 million bucks a year. Now THERE's an obscenity. At least we'll always have Tilton's videos to inspire us:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK_RGgEwsGY
Sure, there are only a "few bad apples," but they tend to be very high profile and extremely wealthy. And every time one of these charletans is unmasked, someone asks the question about damaging the message. I think not. However, I continue to wonder about the poor souls who keep watching these clowns on TV (presumably sending them money) even after their peccadillos have been exposed. Bennie Hinn, anyone with the last name Roberts or Swaggert and my personal favorite, Robert Tilton. It's my understanding that in college Tilton used to entertain friends at parties with his gag "preacher" character. Only later he learned he could gin up a TV ministry featuring that character that at its peak was taking in 80 million bucks a year. Now THERE's an obscenity. At least we'll always have Tilton's videos to inspire us:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK_RGgEwsGY
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
With very rare exceptions, I don't watch any of that TV stuff. It is unfortunate that some of those folks abuse the situations to make money and all. To me, unless you're housebound and can't get out to meet with other believers, I don't understand why people would watch that stuff. The relationships you develop when gathering face-to-face, which to me is a very important aspect of the whole thing, would be missing from someone watching a televangelist, not to mention I don't think a lot of what's presented is very good, especially the prosperity gospel stuff that's all too prevalent. Gotta feel bad for Jesus, being so misrepresented.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
These jerks are just sea foam while, like any great philosophy, Christianity is a whole ocean. They aren't going to damage the message.
Tilton reminds me of L. Ron Hubbard -- a pulp science fiction writer who famously complained to his editor John Campbell about being paid a penny a word, "someday I should create a religion and make some real money." Of course, Hubbard was also insane and wound up buying his own scam.
These jerks are just sea foam while, like any great philosophy, Christianity is a whole ocean. They aren't going to damage the message.
Tilton reminds me of L. Ron Hubbard -- a pulp science fiction writer who famously complained to his editor John Campbell about being paid a penny a word, "someday I should create a religion and make some real money." Of course, Hubbard was also insane and wound up buying his own scam.
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
Plus, there are important theolgical questions. When one of these dudes with the bad hair proclaims somebody at home is "healed," are they "healed" when the program is being taped or when it is played back? We have learned these TV ministries target well to do suckers with personal appeals and phone calls to make sure the money is coming in.
I agree completely, fellowship is an important part of worshiping. Something which is completely absent with televangelists.
The only televangelist (and he really doesn't fit the definition) who follows appropriate business practices is Billy Graham. For decades, while on the road, he wouldn't have a woman in his hotel room without someone else being present. His ministry is periodically audited by outside accountants. And he, and everyone else associated with the ministry, is a salaried employee, whose compensation is determined by an independent board. Not his wife, brother in law or son. In other words, he can't do what Jim and Tammy Faye used to do, write a check on a ministry account for around 30K and then head to K-Mart on an expedition for tasteless clothing. My favorite PTL abuse was when they built a two story home for handicapped children WHICH HAD NO ELEVATOR.
And even for very lonely or handicapped people, most cities provide televised services every Sunday from real local churches. Not from some cheap, tacky TV church, a real church. Why don't these people watch THOSE services? Plus many of the larger churches will come and get a worshiper who can't otherwise make it on his own. What is it about televangelists that keeps the suckers coming back for more, even when they know or should know they're being scammed? Peter Popoff is back in business, selling "holy water" or something. And he's evidently got money enough available to buy the time to put his religious infomercial on the air. At some point, you run out of compassion for people who seem to need to be hoodwinked.
Plus, there are important theolgical questions. When one of these dudes with the bad hair proclaims somebody at home is "healed," are they "healed" when the program is being taped or when it is played back? We have learned these TV ministries target well to do suckers with personal appeals and phone calls to make sure the money is coming in.
I agree completely, fellowship is an important part of worshiping. Something which is completely absent with televangelists.
The only televangelist (and he really doesn't fit the definition) who follows appropriate business practices is Billy Graham. For decades, while on the road, he wouldn't have a woman in his hotel room without someone else being present. His ministry is periodically audited by outside accountants. And he, and everyone else associated with the ministry, is a salaried employee, whose compensation is determined by an independent board. Not his wife, brother in law or son. In other words, he can't do what Jim and Tammy Faye used to do, write a check on a ministry account for around 30K and then head to K-Mart on an expedition for tasteless clothing. My favorite PTL abuse was when they built a two story home for handicapped children WHICH HAD NO ELEVATOR.
And even for very lonely or handicapped people, most cities provide televised services every Sunday from real local churches. Not from some cheap, tacky TV church, a real church. Why don't these people watch THOSE services? Plus many of the larger churches will come and get a worshiper who can't otherwise make it on his own. What is it about televangelists that keeps the suckers coming back for more, even when they know or should know they're being scammed? Peter Popoff is back in business, selling "holy water" or something. And he's evidently got money enough available to buy the time to put his religious infomercial on the air. At some point, you run out of compassion for people who seem to need to be hoodwinked.
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Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
Famously, with the feds closing in on Elron, literally overnight, his Scientology hokum became a "religion" and his Dianetics salesmen became ministers, reporting to work wearing crosses. And that little toad who runs the enterprise now (Miscavage) seems to be a major league loon, too.
It's always so informative when a high school dropout like Tom Cruise positions himself as an expert on psychiatry.
Famously, with the feds closing in on Elron, literally overnight, his Scientology hokum became a "religion" and his Dianetics salesmen became ministers, reporting to work wearing crosses. And that little toad who runs the enterprise now (Miscavage) seems to be a major league loon, too.
It's always so informative when a high school dropout like Tom Cruise positions himself as an expert on psychiatry.
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Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
The whole thing I don't get (and maybe I missed it) is this NATO taking the lead. Seriously, who in NATO is really going to do anything besides us and the Brits? Maybe the Germans or the Italians Only because they need the Libyan oil) , but anyone else? Really? I'm just not buying it.
The whole thing I don't get (and maybe I missed it) is this NATO taking the lead. Seriously, who in NATO is really going to do anything besides us and the Brits? Maybe the Germans or the Italians Only because they need the Libyan oil) , but anyone else? Really? I'm just not buying it.
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
Absolutely. Never has anyone/anything ever been so misrepresented as God (ie Jesus). Unfortunately, its exacerbated by 'cultural warriors'. Newt Gingrich said he's worried the United States could be “a secular atheist country, potentially one dominated by radical Islamists".
I had an interesting discussion with another Christian...who felt that the devil is on earth in the form of the masons. At that point, I reached the conclusion that if I were the devil...my goal would be to infiltrate Christianity and destroy it through misrepresentation.
I don't believe that the devil walks around the earth...but Christianity is constantly subverted by Christians to the point where compassionate liberals become athiests. Its unfortunate seeing those for whom Christianity would be natural...attack it due to confusion and misrepresentation.
Absolutely. Never has anyone/anything ever been so misrepresented as God (ie Jesus). Unfortunately, its exacerbated by 'cultural warriors'. Newt Gingrich said he's worried the United States could be “a secular atheist country, potentially one dominated by radical Islamists".
I had an interesting discussion with another Christian...who felt that the devil is on earth in the form of the masons. At that point, I reached the conclusion that if I were the devil...my goal would be to infiltrate Christianity and destroy it through misrepresentation.
I don't believe that the devil walks around the earth...but Christianity is constantly subverted by Christians to the point where compassionate liberals become athiests. Its unfortunate seeing those for whom Christianity would be natural...attack it due to confusion and misrepresentation.
Foxton
Banned
Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama
And since you just promoted it, which xtian denomination are you supposed to go for? Restorationism, anabaptism, protestantism, anglicanism, roman catholic, eastern orthodox,....
Well they are wrong, it's Obama, this guy I know said that he had a dream about it. Then again isn't Obama supposed to be a mason or some other secret group.. gasp!
If you're already the things that a specific religion is "supposed" to be, what need is there for that religion? Another time/money sink? And why pick a religion that has shown itself to be ultimately divisive for nearly 2000 years. Or would you also support another religious group that "supports" the same values you attribute to xtians? Just so that more people are religious.
And since you just promoted it, which xtian denomination are you supposed to go for? Restorationism, anabaptism, protestantism, anglicanism, roman catholic, eastern orthodox,....
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