Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I rarely see anyone budge at all on their positions. To those of you who do, I commend you for being open-minded and considering input that doesn't match what you already think. But, those type of folks are the exception, not the rule. At least from indications of what people say around here.

Maybe, really Scooby buys into all I say, but he just doesn't admit it in writing on the board!

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

They have had no problem arguing until that video showed up with the Wisconsin GOP member admitting that the whole charade was about the 2012 election. Then they suddenly disappeared. I guess it's just another coincidence.

I can't speak for other posters, I'm just posting about what I see, and the reason why I don't ever post anything serious in this thread about my opinions/viewpoints. From what I've seen, I see no reason to start anytime soon. I do enjoy reading through here, to see what people that have other viewpoints think, even though it makes me mad about 70% of the time.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I rarely see anyone budge at all on their positions. To those of you who do, I commend you for being open-minded and considering input that doesn't match what you already think. But, those type of folks are the exception, not the rule. At least from indications of what people say around here.

Maybe, really Scooby buys into all I say, but he just doesn't admit it in writing on the board!

There's a big difference between changing one's mind on a specific policy issue and changing one's political affiliation, even on that same issue. The problem with party politics is we see the other side countenancing such extreme mendacity that eventually we conclude that the people affiliated with that party are deficient in some way (intellectually, morally, etc). The reality is a party is just a tool used to force through a temporary coalition of special interests' more or less consistent agendas, and insofar as we agree with those interests we can hold our nose and deal with it, but insofar as we disagree it seems outrageous. That's just a normal human reaction, but it doesn't preclude changing one's mind on a specific issue because of specific information. I think many people move their needle based on arguments, maybe silently, but they do. I've moderated my stance on single payer specifically because of information and arguments made on the Forum. That's a difference made -- fiat lux! -- by people whose basic philosophy I still don't share but who have made good points that I really can't counter very well. I'm hopeful I've made similar inroads sometimes.

Just because everybody goes away from each discussion thinking "party X are still a bunch of nimrods" doesn't mean they don't also go away thinking "but on issue Y, I really need more information, if for no other reason than to counter them." That's progress, since it shakes us out of our torpor and makes us justify, at least to ourselves, why we would cast a particular vote.

We can't all go to these, so this is a good exercise IMHO.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I can't speak for other posters, I'm just posting about what I see, and the reason why I don't ever post anything serious in this thread about my opinions/viewpoints. From what I've seen, I see no reason to start anytime soon. I do enjoy reading through here, to see what people that have other viewpoints think, even though it makes me mad about 70% of the time.

Well, some of us are probably way too serious, so lighthearted posters can only help to loosen things up and make them more fun. That's valuable too. Consider yourself a social lubricant.

"I hadn't heard":

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

They have had no problem arguing until that video showed up with the Wisconsin GOP member admitting that the whole charade was about the 2012 election. Then they suddenly disappeared. I guess it's just another coincidence.

If that was the intent, it may have been a big mistake.

In particular, the number of liberal Democrats who said they had a very favorable view of unions jumped to 32 percent from 14 percent. Meanwhile, the percentage of labor household voters who held a very favorable view increased to 45 percent from 27 percent. There was no comparable change among conservative voters; the number of people who said they had a very unfavorable view of unions was roughly unchanged, both among the country as a whole and among different subgroups.

Wisconsin, then, could motivate these groups to vote — something that they usually do fairly reliably, but did not in 2010. (The share of union household voters in the electorate dropped to 17 percent in 2010 from 21 percent in 2008, according to exit polls.) Although self-described liberals almost always vote Democratic, between 35 and 40 percent of labor households have voted Republican in recent elections. If that fraction decreases to something like 30 percent at the same time that union turnout increases, that would hurt Republicans by a couple of percentage points nationally.

And, if the Pew poll is right, Republicans will have no particular counterweight to this; the Wisconsin dispute has motivated the Democratic base more so than theirs.

That does not mean that the Republican base will not have other issues to motivate them in 2012 — they will almost certainly have plenty. But the likelihood of an “enthusiasm gap” of the sort that was present in 2010 has diminished.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

If that was the intent, it may have been a big mistake.

I don't think it was (I'm in the minority but think that real fiscal conservatism would exist, and does exist, if we would find the spine to support it: Daniels 2012!). Whoever said that to Priceless was blowing smoke. But it's interesting how the WI mess mirrors Obamacare. A majority legislature using parliamentary maneuvering to pass an unpopular but dear-to-heart reform. It will be interesting to see if it results in a Dem sweep in Wisconsin like the 2010 national Republican upsets were credited to Obamacare passing.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

But it's interesting how the WI mess mirrors Obamacare. A majority legislature using parliamentary maneuvering to pass an unpopular but dear-to-heart reform. It will be interesting to see if it results in a Dem sweep in Wisconsin like the 2010 national Republican upsets were credited to Obamacare passing.

Ya if you're incredibly vague about what occurred, sure they are sort of kind of similar.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Ya if you're incredibly vague about what occurred, sure they are sort of kind of similar.

Does the equation bother you?
The parallels have been written up in a number of places, not just me.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I don't think either of those guys should be on Ignore.* Snarky doesn't equal trolling, or if it does I should be on Ignore.

Wait. Is there anybody out there? Hello? Hello?

* I've only seen 5 guys on this forum who are so valueless they have deserved to be on Ignore. They all are, and it does make the board far more pleasant and intelligent. Although 3 of them I don't think are even on the board anymore.

Dude, if you dont think OP is a troll than I question you even know what a troll is. Bob Gray is snarky but he isnt a troll. OP attacks everyone, reads nothing anyone says and throws out baseless accusations like snack size candybars at Halloween. He is the living embodiment of a troll! Every post in a political thread, and I do mean EVERY ONE has a little dig or rip on something, there is no reasoned discourse because he gets off on trying to get under people's skin. In maybe 1 out 30 of his posts does he actually put forth an opinion worth reading and if you dare even hint that you might think just a minute amount differently he goes Glenn Beck on you. Jesus he once went into Beck mode when I was AGREEING with him.

The guy is not worth my reading (plus he made insinuations about me I found unsavory) so I blocked him. No one is saying you have to so I guess I dont really care what you think.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Dude, if you dont think OP is a troll than I question you even know what a troll is. Bob Gray is snarky but he isnt a troll. OP attacks everyone, reads nothing anyone says and throws out baseless accusations like snack size candybars at Halloween. He is the living embodiment of a troll! Every post in a political thread, and I do mean EVERY ONE has a little dig or rip on something, there is no reasoned discourse because he gets off on trying to get under people's skin. In maybe 1 out 30 of his posts does he actually put forth an opinion worth reading and if you dare even hint that you might think just a minute amount differently he goes Glenn Beck on you. Jesus he once went into Beck mode when I was AGREEING with him.

The guy is not worth my reading (plus he made insinuations about me I found unsavory) so I blocked him. No one is saying you have to so I guess I dont really care what you think.

Your repeated use of the term "troll" makes me wonder...are you high on CharlieSheen right now?

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I can't speak for other posters, I'm just posting about what I see, and the reason why I don't ever post anything serious in this thread about my opinions/viewpoints. From what I've seen, I see no reason to start anytime soon. I do enjoy reading through here, to see what people that have other viewpoints think, even though it makes me mad about 70% of the time.

That is fine...but where is WeWantMore who posted five minutes after any post about WI telling us this was for the good of the state, not to break the union and try and cripple the Dems? That is what Priceless is saying.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Your repeated use of the term "troll" makes me wonder...are you high on CharlieSheen right now?

I do 7 gram rocks because that is how I roll!

I won't lie, I love Charlie Sheen quotes

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Dude, if you dont think OP is a troll than I question you even know what a troll is. Bob Gray is snarky but he isnt a troll. OP attacks everyone, reads nothing anyone says and throws out baseless accusations like snack size candybars at Halloween. He is the living embodiment of a troll! Every post in a political thread, and I do mean EVERY ONE has a little dig or rip on something, there is no reasoned discourse because he gets off on trying to get under people's skin. In maybe 1 out 30 of his posts does he actually put forth an opinion worth reading and if you dare even hint that you might think just a minute amount differently he goes Glenn Beck on you. Jesus he once went into Beck mode when I was AGREEING with him.

The guy is not worth my reading (plus he made insinuations about me I found unsavory) so I blocked him. No one is saying you have to so I guess I dont really care what you think.

Well, that's about the nicest thing you've ever said about me. That said, I find Old Pio's comments more interesting to read than yours. You are highly predictable and highly partisan, a snoozer of a combination. But, you are prolific, I'll give you that.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Speaking of partisan stubbornness . . .

Yesterday, the Director of National Intelligence released a brief stating the obvious: imposing an effective, rather than symbolic, no-fly zone over Libya would be an intensive operation; substantial components of the Libyan military were staying loyal to Qaddafi; international freezing of assets and arms sales would not hinder Libya's fighting capacity for a long time. As a result, despite the apparent stalement, time is on Qadaffi regime's side, and they are likely to prevail in the long run.

White House spokesman Ben Rhodes summarily dismissed the information, declaring that the White House did not believe that history was on Qaddafi's side.

Talk about two ships passing in the night. I'll grant that Rhodes is correct, insofar as the Qadaffi regime has lost legitimacy -- to the extent that it ever had it. But that's not what the DNI is talking about. Whenever a White House starts ignoring evidence in favor of partisan ideals, it's time to start chewing your fingernails. Perhaps the GOP can be the voice of reason?

Clapper's prediction of defeat for the Libyan opposition prompted a furious Sen.Lindsey Graham of South Carolina to demand that Clapper resign or be fired.

Well, that's nice.

If you want to know why I condescend to partisan politics . . .

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Well, that's about the nicest thing you've ever said about me. That said, I find Old Pio's comments more interesting to read than yours. You are highly predictable and highly partisan, a snoozer of a combination. But, you are prolific, I'll give you that.

The same could be said for you...I have never seen you post one thing that didn't follow a pretty obvious bias. I mean at least my two big things are in conflict with each other (I am socially liberal but hardly fiscally liberal hence why I dont support the Health Care Deal) you dont deviate one bit. If I am a snoozer you are friggin Unisom.

Plus how can I be partisan...I hate both parties.

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Well, that's about the nicest thing you've ever said about me. That said, I find Old Pio's comments more interesting to read than yours. You are highly predictable and highly partisan, a snoozer of a combination. But, you are prolific, I'll give you that.

Meh, until Old Pio comes up with something as completely bat***** insane as verybdog's rant about GWB being racist because his favorite sport is baseball, he'll always be a mere imposter on the political trolling scene. vbd had some really original rants and ravings in his day.

Granted, that's a really high standard to live up to. But like I said, I kinda miss the good ole' days of the political threads. There's just no replacing William Regal or Blinky or the rest of that ilk.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Meh, until Old Pio comes up with something as completely bat***** insane as verybdog's rant about GWB being racist because his favorite sport is baseball, he'll always be a mere imposter on the political trolling scene.

Granted, that's a really high standard to live up to. But like I said, I kinda miss the good ole' days of the political threads. There's just no replacing William Regal or Blinky or the rest of that ilk.

Personally I miss Ritt...his posts made Rovers look like abstracts

I forgot about William Regal I dont miss vbd much though.

I still say the board went downhill the day the Pinheads left. No darin + no Eaglebunny!!!!! + no Mav =

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Does the equation bother you?
The parallels have been written up in a number of places, not just me.

Be vague enough and you can equate anything two things together. Especially when talking about two bodies that use similar parlimentary precedures.

It does bother me because you did not see any democrats on record of saying "let's trick them into showing up under a false pretense so we can just do it anyways" (Paraphrasing Walker) or how "Let's do this as a long term political ploy to affect the next presidential election" (Scott Fitzgerald Senate majority leader)

Republicans have an agenda to destroy or undermine certain segments of the country for their own long term gains and it's disgusting. Not that the democrats are less likely to have a similar aim for their party but Fitzgerald was nice enough to actually come out and admit it.

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

Personally I miss Ritt...his posts made Rovers look like abstracts

I forgot about William Regal I dont miss vbd much though.

I still say the board went downhill the day the Pinheads left. No darin + no Eaglebunny!!!!! + no Mav =

I think vbd is kinda like old Saturday Night Live shows for me. I only remember the classic posts which were completely out of left field, and have blocked the regular humdrum out of my memory. I do remember him, nate, and Hank getting into it one night where I think combined they made about 200 posts in the span of a couple hours while the rest of us just sat back with beer and popcorn and watched them go.

pinheads were good theater, too. I stayed out of the BC threads, but when they migrated over to the political ones, always good for a laugh.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XX: Maybe We'll Even Talk About Obama

I still hate myself for missing when Hank outed nate91b...what a moment that totally changed this board. (that was when BOARD started to crack down)

nate and phil knew how to do it though, they were full on Fox flunkies! I mean if you even hinted at not liking Dubya you were an American hating, French loving, commie pinko Islamofascist and you should be sent to Gitmo because guys like nate91b were fighting to save our freedoms! Good times

Anytime Bobo showed up to fight the pinheads was hours of enjoyment