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Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
- Thread starter Shirtless Guy
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Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
So Obama is a centrist because he escalated the war in afghanistan and hasn't closed gitmo even though he keeps spending money that we don't have on everything he can think of? Passing a huge health care bill, not extending Bush tax cuts, taking over GM? I'm confused here.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
It's non compos mentis all the time with Rover. You really have to be kinda screwed up to watch our education system stagnate or get worse despite gobs and gobs more money being thrown at it every year and believe the problem is that we just aren't spending enough money.
It's non compos mentis all the time with Rover. You really have to be kinda screwed up to watch our education system stagnate or get worse despite gobs and gobs more money being thrown at it every year and believe the problem is that we just aren't spending enough money.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Your post is indicative of the whole debate...and are simply criticisms from one end of the spectrum or the other. Both escalation and keeping gitmo were championed by the right...that is until the left came to power and did the same. The valid points to your post being economic...where he's trying to resuscitate a flailing economy that was handed to him.
The real question is...based on the big picture...is Obama far left or far right? If your answer is one or the other...that constituency would vehemently disagree. And they'd be right.
Your post is indicative of the whole debate...and are simply criticisms from one end of the spectrum or the other. Both escalation and keeping gitmo were championed by the right...that is until the left came to power and did the same. The valid points to your post being economic...where he's trying to resuscitate a flailing economy that was handed to him.
The real question is...based on the big picture...is Obama far left or far right? If your answer is one or the other...that constituency would vehemently disagree. And they'd be right.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
He most definitely is a centrist, and it's not really a surprise. He passed a health care bill that's a mirror image of the Heritage Foundation's counter-proposal to Clinton Care in the early 90s.
I'm not sure how not extending the tax cuts isn't seen as centrist - those tax cuts are financially unsustainable. Nor should the current Republican "mantra of tax cuts no matter what" be confused with an actual right-leaning governance philosophy.
The challenge Obama has had is in the narrative - he was able to eloquently convey the narrative of his platform in the campaign and kept the base interested. Now, he's bungled the narrative and poorly executed some triangulation tactics - policies aside, he hasn't articulated how this all fits in to his broader vision.
He most definitely is a centrist, and it's not really a surprise. He passed a health care bill that's a mirror image of the Heritage Foundation's counter-proposal to Clinton Care in the early 90s.
I'm not sure how not extending the tax cuts isn't seen as centrist - those tax cuts are financially unsustainable. Nor should the current Republican "mantra of tax cuts no matter what" be confused with an actual right-leaning governance philosophy.
The challenge Obama has had is in the narrative - he was able to eloquently convey the narrative of his platform in the campaign and kept the base interested. Now, he's bungled the narrative and poorly executed some triangulation tactics - policies aside, he hasn't articulated how this all fits in to his broader vision.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Obama a centrist? I guess someone could think that if they only listen to the snippets the mainstream media plays of Obama. He really hasn't been very centrist, and it was always in the cards that the hard left would be mad at him because their expectations are far beyond what he could realistically ever deliver.
Obama a centrist? I guess someone could think that if they only listen to the snippets the mainstream media plays of Obama. He really hasn't been very centrist, and it was always in the cards that the hard left would be mad at him because their expectations are far beyond what he could realistically ever deliver.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
That's not an example.
We're still in two wars. The Health Care Bill was a right wing knock off from the '90's. And as for the GM thing, no one loves bailing out large corporations more than the Republicans do.
Next.
That's not an example.
We're still in two wars. The Health Care Bill was a right wing knock off from the '90's. And as for the GM thing, no one loves bailing out large corporations more than the Republicans do.
Next.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
I wouldn't say they hate America Lynah, more that they love China and Germany etc etc more! Because that's who conservative policies tend to benefit (laissez faire economics, upper income tax breaks, outsourcing, cutting education, dependence on oil, etc). Goes to show what I always say: conservative policies sound good in theory, but have no practical application in the real world.
So I'll ask again: how does making it harder for US children to be educated benefit the country vs our competitors around the world?
Now, should educating look for efficiencies? Sure. I'd start with hundred million dollar school construction projects for one. However, unions in this country have little power. If they were omnipotent as apparently they are in conservative fantasy land, why are teachers always the ones getting laid off when municipal budget cuts happen? Wouldn't logic dictate that they'd be able to refuse that if they held all the cards??? Or does that just not fit your fanstasyworld?
Next, teachers don't make a ton of money, so its not like we're talking baseball salaries here. Bottom line is, of all the things the govt is wasting money on, education should be towards the back of the list. Its actually money well spent and education every child in a country that continually accepts new immigrants is going to be costly. I'm all for questions like "do you need 4 guidance counselors" or "should we be busing students who live 3 blocks away from the school". However, the notion that there's billions of dollars of savings to be had in education spending if only we could break teacher's unions is the usual right wing scapgoating instead of offering solutions that we usually see out of our Republican friends.
I wouldn't say they hate America Lynah, more that they love China and Germany etc etc more! Because that's who conservative policies tend to benefit (laissez faire economics, upper income tax breaks, outsourcing, cutting education, dependence on oil, etc). Goes to show what I always say: conservative policies sound good in theory, but have no practical application in the real world.
So I'll ask again: how does making it harder for US children to be educated benefit the country vs our competitors around the world?
Now, should educating look for efficiencies? Sure. I'd start with hundred million dollar school construction projects for one. However, unions in this country have little power. If they were omnipotent as apparently they are in conservative fantasy land, why are teachers always the ones getting laid off when municipal budget cuts happen? Wouldn't logic dictate that they'd be able to refuse that if they held all the cards??? Or does that just not fit your fanstasyworld?
Next, teachers don't make a ton of money, so its not like we're talking baseball salaries here. Bottom line is, of all the things the govt is wasting money on, education should be towards the back of the list. Its actually money well spent and education every child in a country that continually accepts new immigrants is going to be costly. I'm all for questions like "do you need 4 guidance counselors" or "should we be busing students who live 3 blocks away from the school". However, the notion that there's billions of dollars of savings to be had in education spending if only we could break teacher's unions is the usual right wing scapgoating instead of offering solutions that we usually see out of our Republican friends.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Are you kidding me? That is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.I wouldn't say they hate America Lynah, more that they love China and Germany etc etc more! Because that's who conservative policies tend to benefit (laissez faire economics, upper income tax breaks, outsourcing, cutting education, dependence on oil, etc). Goes to show what I always say: conservative policies sound good in theory, but have no practical application in the real world.
So I'll ask again: how does making it harder for US children to be educated benefit the country vs our competitors around the world?
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Actually teachers and education funding are typically among the last things to get cut. Here in Arizona, where we've had major state budget cuts the last few years, education has had cuts, but not nearly to the extent elsewhere in the budget, and efforts to avoid teacher layoffs have received a whole lot of attention.
Actually teachers and education funding are typically among the last things to get cut. Here in Arizona, where we've had major state budget cuts the last few years, education has had cuts, but not nearly to the extent elsewhere in the budget, and efforts to avoid teacher layoffs have received a whole lot of attention.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Maybe, just maybe, some things are the right decision no matter which party 'thought of it'. They worry so much about doing what one party would like they forget to do the thing that will actually work. Some of this issues don't have two ways to be solved, a left and a right...there is one way but they keep screwing it up by trying to make it right or left or adding in so many amendments that it becomes more about right and left than about correct.
If somebody had no concerns whatsoever with making their party happy, how would they solve these issues?...that is the correct answer.
Maybe, just maybe, some things are the right decision no matter which party 'thought of it'. They worry so much about doing what one party would like they forget to do the thing that will actually work. Some of this issues don't have two ways to be solved, a left and a right...there is one way but they keep screwing it up by trying to make it right or left or adding in so many amendments that it becomes more about right and left than about correct.
If somebody had no concerns whatsoever with making their party happy, how would they solve these issues?...that is the correct answer.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
I take it you don't read your own posts then.
I take it you don't read your own posts then.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Well, I figured since we're awash in such liberal policies, it would be easy to pick a few out.
I'm still waiting.
Well, I figured since we're awash in such liberal policies, it would be easy to pick a few out.
I'm still waiting.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
And good for them Bob if that's the case. From reading this thread though and comments from the usual idiots, I'm trying to glean what the way forward is here. Sounds like from the righties its lets cut education because that somehow sticks it to all powerful teachers unions, the same people who generally get laid off come budget crunch time. I'd saying that's stark raving stupid as 1) unions really have little power nowadays, and 2) how is cutting education funding going to make our country better able to compete with the rest of the world? To the second point, I've yet to see anybody even attempt an answer.
And good for them Bob if that's the case. From reading this thread though and comments from the usual idiots, I'm trying to glean what the way forward is here. Sounds like from the righties its lets cut education because that somehow sticks it to all powerful teachers unions, the same people who generally get laid off come budget crunch time. I'd saying that's stark raving stupid as 1) unions really have little power nowadays, and 2) how is cutting education funding going to make our country better able to compete with the rest of the world? To the second point, I've yet to see anybody even attempt an answer.
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