Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
You don't go back and read your own postings?
You don't go back and read your own postings?
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Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
- Thread starter Shirtless Guy
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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Good post. Don't expect a coherent response from our righty friends.
Good post. Don't expect a coherent response from our righty friends.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
So are you still on this "these wingnut neocons want government to get involved in the GZ mosque" kick? I was right, explaining anything to you IS a waste of time.
So are you still on this "these wingnut neocons want government to get involved in the GZ mosque" kick? I was right, explaining anything to you IS a waste of time.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Maybe they got the idea from the lefty's who want us to pay reparations to african americans for slavery.
What I'm struck by in all of this conversation is how conservatives like to use 9-11 still to advocate unconstitutional acts.
1) Blaming all Muslims for 9-11 is reactionary and stupid. You could probably find problems with any name they use for the place as now righties are reaching back to some 16th century conquest as one reason for opposition.
Maybe they got the idea from the lefty's who want us to pay reparations to african americans for slavery.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Yeah, just completely ignore my post from a few days ago saying that the constitution protects things we despise as much as it protects the things we love. I hate the idea of the mosque being built near ground zero but I don't see any reason to have the government stop it. Now if protesters convince the Cordoba group to move it elsewhere, fine. If contractors in new york refuse to build it, fine. I think it is down right silly for these particular muslims think its a good idea to build a mosque in that area but its their property and they have every right to build it if they choose. And the source of their funding is irrelevant. No one blamed irish-american catholics for IRA activities, etc.Good post. Don't expect a coherent response from our righty friends.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
You've explained your position, I understand it fully. It's not particularly relevant except as a barometer of your feelings.
We either have free exercise of religion, or we do not. We either have private property rights, or we do not.
You, of course, are completely free to make a bunch of noise about the issue and be as ****ed off as you like. You are just as free to do so as the developers are to build this mosque in accordance with local codes and regulations.
You've explained your position, I understand it fully. It's not particularly relevant except as a barometer of your feelings.
We either have free exercise of religion, or we do not. We either have private property rights, or we do not.
You, of course, are completely free to make a bunch of noise about the issue and be as ****ed off as you like. You are just as free to do so as the developers are to build this mosque in accordance with local codes and regulations.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Missed your post, but this would make you one of the more reasonable ones.
Back to my point, which is how many righteously angered cons out here are actually doing something, aside from listening to right wing talk radio, to bring about a change in location? Or is this merely the "Outrage Of The Week" that will quickly be moved on from to a new Outrage as soon as emotions die down and the constiutionality of what the GOP is proposing starts getting questioned?
Missed your post, but this would make you one of the more reasonable ones.
Back to my point, which is how many righteously angered cons out here are actually doing something, aside from listening to right wing talk radio, to bring about a change in location? Or is this merely the "Outrage Of The Week" that will quickly be moved on from to a new Outrage as soon as emotions die down and the constiutionality of what the GOP is proposing starts getting questioned?
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Quite frankly, I think this is the opinion of nearly all of the opponents (on this site) of the mosque.
Quite frankly, I think this is the opinion of nearly all of the opponents (on this site) of the mosque.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
well, one of the activities gets a sizable volume of votes and one doesn't...isn't that hard to figure out
well, one of the activities gets a sizable volume of votes and one doesn't...isn't that hard to figure out
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
I'll argue my beliefs etc. but none of them are from one party...I support issues that are core to both parties because it is my belief that the middle could rule the country if it weren't for the money held by each party.
So, yeah, sometimes I'm in there wrasslin' with everybody from one side...BUT, I'm willing to have an open mind and listen to each issue before deciding.
I don't presume I'm right and everybody else is crazy on every issue either.
Take those three things: willing to listen before deciding, unwilling to let a party dictate how I feel about things, not presuming the 'other side' are always insane...wouldn't it be nice if everybody could say that applied to them?
Look at it this way, at some point I end up disagreeing with everybody on here...so I dont' stay out of the fray, I wish there was more of one honestly...we don't need two parties screaming into the wind at each other and a legitimate third party would cause some of the electoral gridlock to break up...in my opinion.
And you're so above the fray.
I'll argue my beliefs etc. but none of them are from one party...I support issues that are core to both parties because it is my belief that the middle could rule the country if it weren't for the money held by each party.
So, yeah, sometimes I'm in there wrasslin' with everybody from one side...BUT, I'm willing to have an open mind and listen to each issue before deciding.
I don't presume I'm right and everybody else is crazy on every issue either.
Take those three things: willing to listen before deciding, unwilling to let a party dictate how I feel about things, not presuming the 'other side' are always insane...wouldn't it be nice if everybody could say that applied to them?
Look at it this way, at some point I end up disagreeing with everybody on here...so I dont' stay out of the fray, I wish there was more of one honestly...we don't need two parties screaming into the wind at each other and a legitimate third party would cause some of the electoral gridlock to break up...in my opinion.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
And yet you continue to act like those who think like me want the government to step in and ban them from using the site.
Genius. It's almost as if I didn't believe that.
You still don't get it and you don't want to get it. Now that I get THAT, you shan't be hearing from me any longer. Goodbye.
And yet you continue to act like those who think like me want the government to step in and ban them from using the site.
Genius. It's almost as if I didn't believe that.
You still don't get it and you don't want to get it. Now that I get THAT, you shan't be hearing from me any longer. Goodbye.
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
From what I've seen in this thread, nobody has advocated any unconstitutional acts. Helping to defuse an ugly situation by finding people willing to sell / swap land for this group to build its mosque further away from ground zero isn't establishing a government-sponsored religion, nor is it stopping the free exercise of any religion. It's simply an attempt to deal with an incendiary situation for the benefit of all parties involved.
Who is blaming all of them?
Maybe you should have asked this of Obama when he was on his international apology tour.
Nobody has advocated that the government block its construction in this thread. All we have said is that doing a land swap or some such thing in order to provide a site further away from ground zero that isn't an inconvenience to the Muslims who will use the facility would likely end / diminish the controversy. The administration sending the imam overseas on a state department trip so he could raise funds is far more questionable than any solution offered up by people in this thread, that's for **** sure.
Most of us don't live in the NYC area, for starters. I'd also hazard a guess that most of us don't listen to talk radio, either (I certainly don't). I'm more interested in a solution to this rather than going nuts protesting the construction of a *'ing building on the other side of the country.
WeWantMore
New member
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
I'd imagine that the outrage about this- and it isn't just conservatives, 60%+ opposed to it in the last poll I saw- will manifest itself at the polls in November.
I'd imagine that the outrage about this- and it isn't just conservatives, 60%+ opposed to it in the last poll I saw- will manifest itself at the polls in November.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Things like Obama's defense of the mosque make me question whether anybody on his staff knows the first thing about politics. It's just handing a big, dripping slice of red meat to the opposition -- why get into it at all?
It's laudable to send messages to the Islamic world that we're not all indiscriminate Musliphobes, but it's not laudable to hand the fall elections to the indiscriminate Musliphobes.
Things like Obama's defense of the mosque make me question whether anybody on his staff knows the first thing about politics. It's just handing a big, dripping slice of red meat to the opposition -- why get into it at all?
It's laudable to send messages to the Islamic world that we're not all indiscriminate Musliphobes, but it's not laudable to hand the fall elections to the indiscriminate Musliphobes.
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Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
If we did not blame all the Germans and Japanese some 65+ years ago, why did we (a) bomb their cities (civillians) into oblivion and (b) lock up every Japanese on the West Coast and deport them to <strike>concentration</strike> internment camps???
Is it legal to build Crodoba House in the Financial District? Of course it is. Just as it is legal to build a KKK office in Watts. Both are inciteful and are doing so to provoke a reaction. The difference is the KKK office would be burned to the ground in 24 hours or less while the Cordoba house will be allowed to peacefully co-exist.
I'd have a 24/7 hour protest up and running outside of CH similar to what you used to find outside of abortion clinics before the legislature passed and the courts allowed an exclusion zone. I hope the protesters make a nuisance of themselves and dissuade people from attending.
It's all legal and protected speech under the Constitution.
RoverWhat I'm struck by in all of this conversation is how conservatives like to use 9-11 still to advocate unconstitutional acts.
1) Blaming all Muslims for 9-11 is reactionary and stupid. You could probably find problems with any name they use for the place as now righties are reaching back to some 16th century conquest as one reason for opposition.
2) Creating a mosque free buffer zone is un-American. You cannot favor, nor discriminate, one religion over another. Plain and simple Constitutional truth. How far away should this mosque free buffer zone be? 5 blocks? People still wouldn't be complaining about that? A mile - within walking distance of the site? People would still complain about that. Where does it end? Its not like this thing is on the site, or even facing the site.
3) Can you protest this? Sure. But you know what? Listening to right wing talk radio does not equal protest. Have you written any letters? Picked up a sign and picketed the site? Anything at all out of any of you righties except for whining on a message board dedicated to college hockey? Its amazing how you people thing listening to the Limbaugh show takes the place of actually doing something, much like you think reflexively voting Republican gets you out of having to go to church every Sunday.
Lastly, yes I consider it a mosque and not a monument. If Atta and his fellow jerkoffs are mentioned anywhere, that's a different story. But I need proof of that, as well as proof that this is actually scheduled to break ground on 9-11.
If we did not blame all the Germans and Japanese some 65+ years ago, why did we (a) bomb their cities (civillians) into oblivion and (b) lock up every Japanese on the West Coast and deport them to <strike>concentration</strike> internment camps???
Is it legal to build Crodoba House in the Financial District? Of course it is. Just as it is legal to build a KKK office in Watts. Both are inciteful and are doing so to provoke a reaction. The difference is the KKK office would be burned to the ground in 24 hours or less while the Cordoba house will be allowed to peacefully co-exist.
I'd have a 24/7 hour protest up and running outside of CH similar to what you used to find outside of abortion clinics before the legislature passed and the courts allowed an exclusion zone. I hope the protesters make a nuisance of themselves and dissuade people from attending.
It's all legal and protected speech under the Constitution.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Welcome back to the thread
Things like Obama's defense of the mosque make me question whether anybody on his staff knows the first thing about politics. It's just handing a big, dripping slice of red meat to the opposition -- why get into it at all?
Welcome back to the thread
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
I will say this about government intervention (jot this down, blockski). If it does turn out that some of the funding is coming from Hamas or the Saudi government (and this is not just pie in the sky "gee, what if" speculation... there is cause for concern, given precedents elsewhere in the world), there should probably be some ability for the government to step in and say... uh, no, that's not happening.
If you want to help Muslims in Lower Manhattan, in the Financial District, have a place to worship, why not put your money where your mouth is and donate to Masjid Manhattan?
I will say this about government intervention (jot this down, blockski). If it does turn out that some of the funding is coming from Hamas or the Saudi government (and this is not just pie in the sky "gee, what if" speculation... there is cause for concern, given precedents elsewhere in the world), there should probably be some ability for the government to step in and say... uh, no, that's not happening.
If you want to help Muslims in Lower Manhattan, in the Financial District, have a place to worship, why not put your money where your mouth is and donate to Masjid Manhattan?
ScottM
**** it feels good to be a bankster
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
So, has anyone seriously stepped up and offered another property for a 1031 exchange or other property swap? Or does this "outrage" not extend to the wallet?
And what about the other Muslim prayer center 4 blocks away from WTC? Maybe someone will move them above 54th ...
So, has anyone seriously stepped up and offered another property for a 1031 exchange or other property swap? Or does this "outrage" not extend to the wallet?
And what about the other Muslim prayer center 4 blocks away from WTC? Maybe someone will move them above 54th ...
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
4 blocks is fine...that is lightyears away as opposed to 2 blocks
4 blocks is fine...that is lightyears away as opposed to 2 blocks
Re: Obama XIV: President VISTA with SP2
Funny, but true. As I mentioned before, once we set up a mosque free zone, where does it end? Why not boot existing ones that are "too close" while we're at it? Because you know what; on the right, there will be a movement within the ranks to do so.
Regarding funding, lets say Hamas is involved. Then the mosque is officially SOL, because Hamas is considered a terrorist group and getting funding from them is against the law. So, that contingency is covered.
4 blocks is fine...that is lightyears away as opposed to 2 blocks
Funny, but true. As I mentioned before, once we set up a mosque free zone, where does it end? Why not boot existing ones that are "too close" while we're at it? Because you know what; on the right, there will be a movement within the ranks to do so.
Regarding funding, lets say Hamas is involved. Then the mosque is officially SOL, because Hamas is considered a terrorist group and getting funding from them is against the law. So, that contingency is covered.
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