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Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Part of this all comes down to your economic philosophy. Modern American economic philosophy has come to be dominated by the need to consume and thus drive the economy. There was a time when the economic philosophy was basically opposite. That you pay off your debts and accumulate surplus and out of that surplus you fund economic expansion. Today we just want people to go into debt further and further to keep driving the economic machine. Rightly, people are starting to recognize that debt isn't necessarily your friend, especially at very high levels. Short term it may not make the economy directly as active. But long term you're better off with less debt and financially robust entities. There is of course a whole lot of nuance I've left out, but I find it fascinating how this nation has bought almost exclusively into the spend, regardless of debt, and it's good for you and the economy. In the end I think it's a pretty lousy philosophy if you care about something more than very short term economic and/or personal benefit.

I would also agree largely. Although the debate would come down to whether now is the time for serious action on the deficit as in theory this might hurt the economy in the short term and driving the economy in the short term helps on the tax revenue side of the equation. Regardless, I'm not sure that your post is in disagreement with mine.

If anything I think your point means that taxes go up higher than they would in order to pay down debt. But the other question is...who ends up with the money to spend after debt payments are made (govt or private hands)? Unfortunately for the health of the economy as it stands today, I think adequate taxes are necessary to work on the deficit (assuming you see the need for that) and fund the govt with enough to continue to push capital through the economy as nobody else will.

Tough issues...and we really don't know the right answer.
 
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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Frankly, given Obama's anti-business rhetoric and actions

This is great. Obama just presided over a business-friendly financial "reform" after a bunch of asswipes on Wall Street nearly bankrupted the world, but he's still a Socialist. :rolleyes:

Part of this all comes down to your economic philosophy. Modern American economic philosophy has come to be dominated by the need to consume and thus drive the economy. There was a time when the economic philosophy was basically opposite. That you pay off your debts and accumulate surplus and out of that surplus you fund economic expansion.

Except this has nothing to do with America, it's the reductio ad absurdum of corporate capitalism. "There was a time" when companies also created things of value, rather than played the Towers of Hanoi with mountains of debt. The demise of that era coincided with the worship of finance, rather than business, because a dollar is a dollar, it's easier and safer to makes millions risking other people's money, and "anybody who does not like making money is a fool."

We could decide as a culture that profits based on value should be encouraged, but that would require "picking winners and losers," and god knows that would bring about the Wrath of Khan or something.
 
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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Except this has nothing to do with America, it's the reductio ad absurdum of corporate capitalism. "There was a time" when companies also created things of value, rather than played the Towers of Hanoi with mountains of debt. The demise of that era coincided with the worship of finance, rather than business, because a dollar is a dollar, it's easier and safer to makes millions risking other people's money, and "anybody who does not like making money is a fool."

We could decide as a culture that profits based on value should be encouraged, but that would require "picking winners and losers," and god knows that would bring about the Wrath of Khan or something.

You're giving me pause again. Cut that out!

But seriously, everyone likes making money. duh. The problem of the "love of money" as it applies here is that the very greediest people seem to have ended up with the most power. Most of us figure there's a balancing point somewhere between working and everything else. These people have a one-dimensional, highly motivated life which allows for the accumulation of that power.
I was recently converted to supporting higher tax rates on high earners. One reason is that I think there really is a point where enough is enough, like it or not. And no, I don't know where that point is exactly but graduated rates are our friend.
And the debt crisis that could bring the country down is a result of the aggregate poor decisions of every person buying on credit. More the tens of millions of regular idiots than the individual market movers who are buying private islands with the interest collections while leveraging your retirement to pay for the jet. Personal Finance needs to be a mandatory public school course.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

You're giving me pause again. Cut that out!

But seriously, everyone likes making money. duh. The problem of the "love of money" as it applies here is that the very greediest people seem to have ended up with the most power. Most of us figure there's a balancing point somewhere between working and everything else. These people have a one-dimensional, highly motivated life which allows for the accumulation of that power.
I was recently converted to supporting higher tax rates on high earners. One reason is that I think there really is a point where enough is enough, like it or not. And no, I don't know where that point is exactly but graduated rates are our friend.
And the debt crisis that could bring the country down is a result of the aggregate poor decisions of every person buying on credit. More the tens of millions of regular idiots than the individual market movers who are buying private islands with the interest collections while leveraging your retirement to pay for the jet. Personal Finance needs to be a mandatory public school course.

I am intrigued with your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. :)

There was a finance course at my high school but it was essentially tracked with the "so, you're not going to college and we have no idea what to do with you, but here we are for the next four years, so, um, yeah..." classes and it never would have occurred to me to take it. This is definitely a mistake, since even if you were raised by Depression Era parents who rinse out and reuse everything at least 20 times, and even if you're good at math, there are plenty of things in personal finance that are a little counter-intuitive.

I guess it was formerly caveat emptor, literally, but the moment we decided not to let lenders who made stupid loans fail, it became a Weakest Link problem.
 
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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

You're giving me pause again. Cut that out!

But seriously, everyone likes making money. duh. The problem of the "love of money" as it applies here is that the very greediest people seem to have ended up with the most power. Most of us figure there's a balancing point somewhere between working and everything else. These people have a one-dimensional, highly motivated life which allows for the accumulation of that power.
I was recently converted to supporting higher tax rates on high earners. One reason is that I think there really is a point where enough is enough, like it or not. And no, I don't know where that point is exactly but graduated rates are our friend.
And the debt crisis that could bring the country down is a result of the aggregate poor decisions of every person buying on credit. More the tens of millions of regular idiots than the individual market movers who are buying private islands with the interest collections while leveraging your retirement to pay for the jet. Personal Finance needs to be a mandatory public school course.
Put me down for a subscription as well.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

This is great. Obama just presided over a business-friendly financial "reform" after a bunch of asswipes on Wall Street nearly bankrupted the world, but he's still a Socialist. :rolleyes:

Um, I never said he was a "socialist". He has repeatedly excoriated business in general, and specific industries, for their pay practices, business practices, attempts to lobby Congress, etc. all in the name of pandering for his own political agenda. The White House has no real credibility among business in general, and this latest "reform", in all of its 2300+ page glory, will probably not prevent the next big bust. His latest missive about a broad-based "regulatory review" to see what regs may hindering job creation, R&D, etc., is laughable, and shows he probably never opened a CFR or Federal Register in his entire esteemed legal "career".
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Um, I never said he was a "socialist". He has repeatedly excoriated business in general, and specific industries, for their pay practices, business practices, attempts to lobby Congress, etc. all in the name of pandering for his own political agenda. The White House has no real credibility among business in general, and this latest "reform", in all of its 2300+ page glory, will probably not prevent the next big bust. His latest missive about a broad-based "regulatory review" to see what regs may hindering job creation, R&D, etc., is laughable, and shows he probably never opened a CFR or Federal Register in his entire esteemed legal "career".

yeah but all of that is offset by putting a Harvard Law Professor who has never worked for a company in her life in charge of regulating businesses
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

This is great. Obama just presided over a business-friendly financial "reform" after a bunch of asswipes on Wall Street nearly bankrupted the world, but he's still a Socialist. :rolleyes:

Except this has nothing to do with America, it's the reductio ad absurdum of corporate capitalism. "There was a time" when companies also created things of value, rather than played the Towers of Hanoi with mountains of debt. The demise of that era coincided with the worship of finance, rather than business, because a dollar is a dollar, it's easier and safer to makes millions risking other people's money, and "anybody who does not like making money is a fool."
Business friendly towards those same Wall Street types who nearly bankrupted the world. Not so much for other types of businesses.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

The White House has no real credibility among business in general, and this latest "reform", in all of its 2300+ page glory, will probably not prevent the next big bust.

By your measure...which white house has had significantly more credibility?
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

By your measure...which white house has had significantly more credibility?

Clinton was probably that last great pragmatist, but that's part of the game. And that's why you wait for Congress to deliver some fetid piece of garbage and then work the regulatory process. Those nameless/faceless bureucrats have more influence and power than most Americans would want to know.

Pirate, Elizabeth Warren has so much baggage, she'd make Kagan's nomination process look tame. They may just as well submit Ralph Nader. Then again, Obama might try a recess appointment, but her ability to actually do anything would probably be brief. Moreover, Geithner doesn't really get along with her.
 
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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Business friendly towards those same Wall Street types who nearly bankrupted the world. Not so much for other types of businesses.
He doesn't want to hear that
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

This is delicious! :D

Order now -- supplies are limited! :p

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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

yeah but all of that is offset by putting a Harvard Law Professor who has never worked for a company in her life in charge of regulating businesses

I think Warren will do alright. saw her on cspan (oversight committe) and pbs (charlie rose) and she'll do the right thing for the people and the country.

Although there is professor Bernanke ... and professor Chu.
Bernanke is overseeing the greatest wealth transfer in the history of the world. and we applaud him and the banks for job well done.
Chu is totally ineffective as energy secretary, not sure what happened there, he sounded great on PBS talking aobut winning the nobel prize and energy.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Chu is totally ineffective as energy secretary, not sure what happened there, he sounded great on PBS talking aobut winning the nobel prize and energy.

this is a snark, right :confused:
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

this is a snark, right :confused:

Huh? well I thought Stephan Chu would be great energy secretary but he has been total bust so far. instead of making ineffective speeches I think he should go on talk shows like charlie rose and talk about nuclear and renewable energy to turn around the public perception. kinda like what the education secretary has been doing forawhile.

And I was totally wrong about professor Bernanke, he sounded ok when appointed fed chair. not a business man or banker but academia.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Huh? well I thought Stephan Chu would be great energy secretary but he has been total bust so far. instead of making ineffective speeches I think he should go on talk shows like charlie rose and talk about nuclear and renewable energy to turn around the public perception. kinda like what the education secretary has been doing forawhile.

And I was totally wrong about professor Bernanke, he sounded ok when appointed fed chair. not a business man or banker but academia.

Well, I'm not sure why you think it'd be OK if Chu started to lie to you... but I guess you're cool with it. As far as I understand the big problem is that Chu is ignorant of his general charge. Of course many of these guys aren't there to be smart but rather to serve as an interface of the president's policies and the procedures.

Nevertheless, the point of his job is to run the Department of Energy... not to blather to popular talkers. I find it alarming that you want a highly credentialed PR flack more than somebody who can actively help the country by leading his cabinet department.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

Is that the one that HBO did the special on several years ago with James Woods playing the defense attorney? That was scary. To think you could go from nice person trying to help kids to that kind of make believe witch hunt was stunning.


Here is one for everybody...what pct of kids in your area are on gov't lunch programs?

Read an article that identified the pct of low income kids in a large region with the pct that got free breakfast. It was over 50% which seemed high...so I googled that and found a ton of stuff about how parents scam that system.

Of course nobody wants needy kids to go hungry but who is policing this type of program? I guarantee you 50% of the families don't go without cable, 2 cars, flat screen TV's, designer clothes, $200 cell phones etc. but they get free meals.

Woods played the lawyer in a dramatization of the McMartin case, IIRC, the first of the "ritual sexual abuse" trials. At one time the longest and most expensive criminal trial in American history, and at the end of the day, not a single charge stuck. However, one defendant spent five years in the LA lockup, because he was denied bail!

This trial (in fact, all of these showtrials) featured patently absurd testimony from children who had been badgered into giving the "correct" answers to prosecutors' questions. Supporters of these trials contended that "children don't lie," but research has shown that children can have their reality altered by repeated questioning, "anatomically correct" dolls and claims that other children are "smart" because they're giving the desired answers to the questions. What kid wants adults to think of him as "stupid?"

Here's the scenario: mom and dad call their kid into the living room, they've got a very serious look on their faces and they tell the kid he's not in any trouble. The kid instantly realizes he IS in trouble, because his parents never have these command performances with him. They ask him if Mr. Bob touched his doop. The kid says no. The parents say: you can tell us the truth. The kid says no. The parents tell him OTHER kids are saying that Mr. Bob touched their doops. Finally, they put it to the kid again and he says "yes." This generates praise, strokes, pleasure, smiles, statements of what a good boy he is, accompanied by parental touching.
The kid quickly figures out what the "right" answers are, and begins to give them.

As I said, all of these cases featured totally unbelievable claims by children which were nevertheless believed by parents, law enforcement and prosecutors. In McMartin there were claims of an underground system of tunnels (which some true believing parents kept trying to unearth years after the case ended) and sexual abuse at a neighborhood grocery store and flying to undisclosed locations in a black airplane. Yup, sounds credible to me.

In the Fells Acres case, where Martha Coakley behaved so badly, there was testimony from child "victims" that the male figure in the case had anally raped a child with a butcher knife, somehow magically leaving no scars. And the adult sister was accused of tying a child to a tree in the front yard of the day care and raping that child--in broad daylight. I've got no problem believing THAT. And that kids were abused with a magic wand. Uh huh, nothing unbelievable about that testimony.

By the time Coakley came along the defendants were already in prison but the state pardons board had issued a recommendation, based on the multiple violations of the defendant's rights to a fair trial,that should be released. All that was needed was the signature of the governor. Coakley organized "victims" and their parents to lobby the governor not to sign, she didn't. BTW, when a child has his memory altered about these kinds of events, he continues to believe, even into adulthood that he was the victim of sexual abuse, even when the evidence clearly shows he wasn't.

The Fells Acres case was a gross assault on due process and the presumption of innocence. And Martha Coakley was right there in the middle of it, advancing her career while a person she knew or should have known was innocent was rotting in prison. Shame on her, forever.

There was a "ritual sexual abuse" trial involving the Little Rascals day care in Edenton, North Carolina. And the usual unfair procedures were in effect. It was alleged that over 90 children had been abused. Oddly, those charges were supported by local "therapists" who interviewed kids in Edenton. But none of the kids whose parents had moved and were examined by out of town therapists reported any abuse. Hmmm, wonder why?

One befuddled woman who worked at Little Rascals, who was not charged, but whose son was allegedly assaulted, looked into a documentary camera and even though she was a true believer, said she couldn't understand how all that abuse was going on, she was there everyday. Exactly.
 
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Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

You're giving me pause again. Cut that out!

But seriously, everyone likes making money. duh. The problem of the "love of money" as it applies here is that the very greediest people seem to have ended up with the most power. Most of us figure there's a balancing point somewhere between working and everything else. These people have a one-dimensional, highly motivated life which allows for the accumulation of that power.
I was recently converted to supporting higher tax rates on high earners. One reason is that I think there really is a point where enough is enough, like it or not. And no, I don't know where that point is exactly but graduated rates are our friend.
And the debt crisis that could bring the country down is a result of the aggregate poor decisions of every person buying on credit. More the tens of millions of regular idiots than the individual market movers who are buying private islands with the interest collections while leveraging your retirement to pay for the jet. Personal Finance needs to be a mandatory public school course.

Ok -this is so completely exhausting.

A - so my doctor friend should pay my healthcare because he makes more than me? because he's (gasp) worked MORE than me in school, put in longer hours at work??? etc.? what are you saying by "supporting" a higher tax rate on high earners? gouging successful people because you or I aren't as "successful" financially? that's fair? how so?

B -
Success gives you money and power under our FORMER system... Under Barack Guevara it gives you taxes, more taxes, a target on your forehead, and the stigma that you are (gasp) selfish or greedy (meaning, IMO, you look out for yourself, rather than have gov't do it).


Understand capitalism and human behavior. so? that's bad? these people (the people you are calling greedy or allude to as such) hire us, pay us, give us 401k's etc. only (IMO) people who cannot think for themselves have this sophmoric "us against big business", "union vs the bosses or board", "gov't vs business/private sector" "we're constantly getting screwed by everyone BUT gov't" attitude/mentality. If you don't like your job, your boss, or your pay then leave. simple. get a new job. You have a brain and you can work it so go forth and be successful.

let me put it to you this way...Is Sidney Crosby greedy in wanting to score as many goals as possible? It helps him individually AND helps his team right? You DO understand that success breeds success? Should Crosby dish more because a 4th liner deserves some approbation and a boost in pay? or should he do what he's best at and as a consequence (not by his design necessarily) helps the team the most?

Right now Obama is killing the private sector by design. He's the American version of Che Guevara and in a private party I'm sure he'd acknowledge that that's a comparison he's beyond happy with.

Socialist. Obama. Yeah and I'm saying it and it's true. Look up his interview on WBEZ in Chicago from 2001 or 02 if you're too... let's say optimistic to believe the collapse of our economy is NOT something that is 90% on his shoulders and something he's planned since his first reading of Marx...ok, that's harsh, he didn't WANT the economy to fail exactly, he just wanted "fairness" and marxism, but he didn't/doesn't realize that marxism/socialism/collectivism ALWAYS Fails, and thus our entire economy will fail with the implementation of the doctrine.

This will drive Handyman and others nuts but I don't care. 1/2 my family is from Cuba. lived it. done with it.

now we've got it here and it's getting worse.

how does over-taxation (aka taking $ out of the private sector, and working people's hands) help the economy?

it is the very reason companies large and small are "hoarding" cash as some are saying here.

we've got an anti-growth, redistributionist president with an enormous chip on his shoulder who absolutely won't stop because (and I'll give him credit for being true to his beliefs I guess) he's absolutely committed to the cause of socialism and redistribution. Teaching us our lesson that we were wrong to look out for ourselves.
 
Re: Obama XIII: It's all Bush's fault.

To believe Obama is not a socialist is to believe that Obama is the most conservative person amongst the people which he has regularly associated with throughout his life.

Further, it would be a denail of his life and history to say that he isn't. At no point in time has anybody pointed out his switch from college Marxist as he was at Occidental to "moderate". His family was communist sympathetic... he was guided as a teenager by an active communist radical named Frank Marshall Davis... his first college stint he was known to be a Marxist. Later he becomes a "community organizer" working along side known murder and unrepentant terrorist William Ayers in the same **** office... and so far has not admitted any regrets or reservations of associating with such a vile human. He belonged to a socialist "fusion party" called the "New Party" as part of his election to the Illinois legislature. All of this is an incomplete list of the issues of Barack Obama.

Now, to an outsider this would be a clear signal that Obama is a true blue socialist. But he's not a socialist. You want to know why. Because the Democratic party would never allow that to happen don'tchaknow. Yeah, I can't say that with a straight face either.

Barack Obama is the profile of how a Communist would run for and operate as president if he actually wanted to get things done. I mean, think about it, how would a goal oriented Communist actually run and operate if he wanted to do something? Most communists act like they should get everything and are absolutely without tact in working towards his goals. Obama on the other hand is the paragon of what somebody would be doing if he actually wanted to have a chance of being successful. The "stereotype communist" (which, by the way, this is why Obama hasn't pushed harder Kepler/Rover/rufus) would have alienated the American public far more than Obama has to this point. Obama has done a pretty good job of alienation as it is. That being said, Obama has an entire "take-no-prisoners" "by any means necessary" approach. He hasn't gone stronger on things because he wants to remain in power and wants to get things done. If he went harder on things the backlash would be even stronger upon Congress and they would act instinctually in their own job survival interest. Nevertheless, the tact is there. The president has repeatedly exposed himself as a lying disingenuous callous human. As a socialist/Marxist he is fine and comfortable in the notion that he truly hates his opposition and sees nothing wrong in the desire to see them destroyed or as less than full persons. Hence the "middle finger slip" (he's done this more than once) and other comments which are effective "**** you" statements to various groups. You see folks, he hates.... and he hates because he believes. But, go and tell yourself that he's a "moderate"... it might make you feel all gooey inside... but in the end its crap and you know it is crap.

Don't deny what he is because of the feelings you want to feel. Just because you feel he has the affectations of intelligence does not mean that he is a "rationalist" human. Smart is not a quality unto itself. There were very smart people who believed in the power of eugenics. There are very smart people who believe in the ideals of Marxism. There are very smart people who believe in a variety of trash ideologies. In the end being "smart" does not mean that the president will conform to any sense of "rationalism" or "pragmatism"... after all, many smart people devote themselves to use their intelligence to attempt to create worlds that cannot be because of their moral guidance. We still believe as people that if we do it "properly" then its achievable. This is why Communism hasn't been relegated to the dustbin of history... this is why to expect intelligence to lead to moderation and pragmatism is absolute bunk. But that's how it is, and that's where we are.
 
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