Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Worth a look.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/06/08/gm_to_keep_900_more_dealerships_than_planned/

By my calculations, that's 900 extra dealerships at an avg of 50 employees per dealership = 45,000 jobs saved. Not bad at all. I'd be throwing the bums out who voted against this.

Voted against what? Which piece of legislation caused this? At what cost per job saved?

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Someone posted the stimulus increased 19% of GDP but cost (worth) was 30% of GDP in the last 3 years. problem is just like taxcuts to stimulate the economy, we never seem to pay/rollback the stim when our economy gets rolling.

I wonder what goldman is hiding.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Goldman-Sachs-Revives-an-Old-cnbc-2420177455.html?x=0&.v=1

the chairman of the commission, Phil Angelides, angrily accused Goldman of "deliberately and disruptively" trying to thwart the commission's investigation by dumping billions of pages of documents in response to requests for information.

Goldman (NYSE: gs) offered up only the blandest and most tepid denial. "We have been and continue to be committed to providing the FCIC with the information they have requested," Goldman said in a statement.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Funny.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'<a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-june-7-2010/thank-you--south-carolina---the-race-to-replace-disgrace'>Thank You, South Carolina - The Race to Replace Disgrace<a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:311738' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com'>Political Humor</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/videos/tag/Tea+Party'>Tea Party</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

SC GOP gov. primary: Nikki Haley - 194,134; 49%; Gresham Barrett - 85,579; 21.6%; 95% precincts reporting

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Voted against what? Which piece of legislation caused this? At what cost per job saved?

And how many of these are being FORCED to close in the first place? Don't those count as "lost jobs"?

edit: isn't the point of the stimulus to stimulate the PRIVATE SECTOR? If its just a money shuffling program then its worse than doing nothing.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

I know, it's a great site. A better Drudge Report. but look at the plot of car sales before, during and after cash for clunkers. Was it worth spending $2400 per car of taxpayer funds? The only thing it accomplished other than increasing our debt was to drive up the price of old used cars to further punish the poor.
Now apply that question to the mother of all stimulus packages that went to putting up "recovery and relief" billboards next to holes in the roads all over the country last summer as a way to exponentially drive up our collective debt.

Throw the bums out.

The point is that if you're getting your understanding of the success of the stimulus from hotair.com...you deserve to be misled and sidelined. Its about as accurate as understanding Christianity through atheism.com.

I would happily bet that the absolute true costs and benefits of the stimulus on the US economy is waay too complex for anyone on USCHO to ascertain...even after reading a handful of conservative websites.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

The point is that if you're getting your understanding of the success of the stimulus from hotair.com...you deserve to be misled and sidelined. Its about as accurate as understanding Christianity through athiesm.com.

But there is no atheism.com.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

The point is that if you're getting your understanding of the success of the stimulus from hotair.com...you deserve to be misled and sidelined. Its about as accurate as understanding Christianity through atheism.com.

I would happily bet that the absolute true costs and benefits of the stimulus on the US economy is waay too complex for anyone on USCHO to ascertain...even after reading a handful of conservative websites.

Fortunately, we don't need to ascertain that for ourselves - we have Rover here ready to point us to newspaper articles about car dealerships not closing.

Thank goodness for that.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

The point is that if you're getting your understanding of the success of the stimulus from hotair.com...you deserve to be misled and sidelined. Its about as accurate as understanding Christianity through atheism.com.

I would happily bet that the absolute true costs and benefits of the stimulus on the US economy is waay too complex for anyone on USCHO to ascertain...even after reading a handful of conservative websites.

Take another look - hotair.com is nothing more than a news aggregator, like Drudge. There's nothing there to attack. They do a good job of compiling links to right wing papers, along with some enlightening links to progressive dementia. The only original content they have is a blog, and a compilation of Obamateurisms, a takeoff on Slate's "Bushisms" and "Palinisms".
It won't hurt you to read opposing views.
And it takes a very slight level of intelligence to understand that the "true costs" of the "stimulus" fest, whatever they are, are too much. Any price is too much for a negative benefit.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Worth a look.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/06/08/gm_to_keep_900_more_dealerships_than_planned/

By my calculations, that's 900 extra dealerships at an avg of 50 employees per dealership = 45,000 jobs saved. Not bad at all. I'd be throwing the bums out who voted against this.

Voted against what?
You mean there are legislators who voted against the recovery of car sales in spite of our government's interference?
If you mean voting against the takeover of GM, do you think this demand wouldn't be there if GM had liquidated? The government is creating wealth now by decree? What?

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

The bit about the CARS program was a link to another blog post. It wasn't a "paper" in any meaningful sense. Hell, the author couldn't even be arsed to do a simple ARIMA model on the policy intervention, never mind a more complete model on the effect of the policy on consumer spending, and the value of increasing spending at time t versus waiting and hoping it increases at time t+2. So I would say it's much closer to being a voice in a conservative echo chamber than a genuine bit of research or reporting.

Full disclosure: All that said, I bet "clunkers" wasn't very efficient.

 

[geezer]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

The bit about the CARS program was a link to another blog post. It wasn't a "paper" in any meaningful sense. Hell, the author couldn't even be arsed to do a simple ARIMA model on the policy intervention, never mind a more complete model on the effect of the policy on consumer spending, and the value of increasing spending at time t versus waiting and hoping it increases at time t+2. So I would say it's much closer to being a voice in a conservative echo chamber than a genuine bit of research or reporting.

Full disclosure: All that said, I bet "clunkers" wasn't very efficient.

Thanks for being reasonable. I see this as a much more effective counter than, "It's on a conservative website so I won't read it LA LA LA". And you're right.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Take another look - hotair.com is nothing more than a news aggregator, like Drudge. There's nothing there to attack. They do a good job of compiling links to right wing papers, along with some enlightening links to progressive dementia. The only original content they have is a blog, and a compilation of Obamateurisms, a takeoff on Slate's "Bushisms" and "Palinisms".
It won't hurt you to read opposing views.
And it takes a very slight level of intelligence to understand that the "true costs" of the "stimulus" fest, whatever they are, are too much. Any price is too much for a negative benefit.

I did and do take a look at conservative media. And it really doesn't matter whether they come up with their own content or not...the fact that a quick read shows that all of their articles have a consistent bent (negative towards the administration), then why should anyone believe that their analysis of the economy is an accurate picture of what's going on. The agenda appears to be to suck conservatives in based on opinion (spun as news) thats negative towards the administration rather than give objective news. Its a tried approach to get traffic...as old as idealizing the KKK in Birth of a Nation. Note: People keep saying CNN is has a left bent...but you need to go to Huffpo or BBC Europe before you get anything leftwing and they're minor outlets in this country. CNN and Fox have been compared countless times...and CNN is far more likely to cover news and Fox opinion based on an ideological position.

The problem was that the way you stated it was...look at this analysis, lets throw the bums out. Whether or not you meant it, you appeared to be making the overarching conclusion based off of a single source on an obviously conservative site...outside 25% of folks on the right, your not going to sell anyone that way.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Thanks for being reasonable. I see this as a much more effective counter than, "It's on a conservative website so I won't read it LA LA LA".

Nobody says that. The question has always been: with a limited amount of time, where are you going to go for information: outlets that at least attempt to gather facts, or outlets that are transparently party propagandists even in their news scoping and reporting? While both sides have these, the recent historical oddity has been that the right has become unaware of the difference -- arguably, they don't even believe a difference exists. The far right have become radical relativists, creating an alternative reality because its the most successful space for keeping their advocates happy. The far left did this in the 70's and was mocked -- the right does it now and their head space has basically become their version of Nat X.

If only one outlet somewhere covered a story and the story turned out to be true, it wouldn't matter if they were the NYT or the National Enquirer, but that's not what we have. Between whistleblowers, blogs, MSM and conspiracy theorists any given story will be covered from a thousand angles. I'd rather start with somebody who doesn't actively delete facts contrary to their bias. Spin can be corrected for; gaps in the empirical record can't.

None of this applies if you are just looking for tub-thumping or irony to have your pre-judgements caressed and confirmed (Kos, Freep, talk radio, Olbermann, Beck, O'Reilly, The Daily Show). There's no informational content, their impact derives from the self-selection of the audience who are saying "by boarding this ride I am looking for a circle jerk." Nothing wrong with that, but it's entertainment, not thinking.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

The far right have become radical relativists, creating an alternative reality because its the most successful space for keeping their advocates happy.

Alternative reality is a good description...

http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Fortunately, we don't need to ascertain that for ourselves - we have Rover here ready to point us to newspaper articles about car dealerships not closing.

Thank goodness for that.

Heaven forbid someone posts an opposing view to that Neo-Conservative Kingdom On Earth you guys have all been telling us to be on the look out for.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

creating an alternative reality because its the most successful space for keeping their advocates happy.

I can't think of a politician who doesn't do this, can you?
You have Clinton writing a fund raising letter saying send money because the right wing senator is a sinner. What kind of reality does Bubba live in? I'm sure there are 100's of examples like this

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

I can't think of a politician who doesn't do this, can you?
You have Clinton writing a fund raising letter saying send money because the right wing senator is a sinner. What kind of reality does Bubba live in? I'm sure there are 100's of examples like this

You're scaring me. The point is there's a distinction between journalism, that can be more or less tainted by bias (WaPo, NYT, WSJ, The Economist) vs outright political activity that masquerades as journalism (Fox News, MSNBC, the Washington Times).

The contrast between Wikipedia and Conservapedia is a perfect summary of why conservative media has no credibility as anything but ideology. Wikipedia has a lot of problems and may even have slant, but its mission is to build up a compendium of facts -- it can at least in theory be used as a value-neutral source. Conservapedia, OTOH, is just another Echo Chamber outlet -- its informational value is literally zero.

Wikipedia is the NYT or WSJ. Conservapedia is MSNBC or Fox News.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

You're scaring me. The point is there's a distinction between journalism, that can be more or less tainted by bias (WaPo, NYT, WSJ, The Economist) vs outright political activity that masquerades as journalism (Fox News, MSNBC, the Washington Times).

The contrast between Wikipedia and Conservapedia is a perfect summary of why conservative media has no credibility as anything but ideology. Wikipedia has a lot of problems and may even have slant, but its mission is to build up a compendium of facts -- it can at least in theory be used as a value-neutral source. Conservapedia, OTOH, is just another Echo Chamber outlet -- its informational value is literally zero.

Wikipedia is the NYT or WSJ. Conservapedia is MSNBC or Fox News.

That's a low blow, the powerfully retarded people who frequent conservapedia think the bible needs to edited because it's too liberal.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

. The point .

Your reality is someones alternate reality, or your alternate reality is their reality