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Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Obama in sharp contrast has not done a good job with this. He often injects political barbs into what I would consider nationally-representative occasions and I do not like it one bit -- being on the "winning" side makes it no more palatable, and indeed twice as embarrassing. This was one of the things that made Cheney so grotesque, and to see it now continued, by people who ought to know better and who specifically promised to restore the dignity of the office, is maddeningly disappointing.

If we've moved on from the specific (golf-gate) to the general, I'd have to agree here. Obama is free to hold whatever opinions he wants about specific commentators, just as Bush was free to think whatever he thought about that NYT reporter... But when Obama starts to lead off his public statements by taking shots at them, he looks small. And by extension, the presidency looks a little smaller.

I guess my difference is that I file that under "basic expectations of a U.S. President." I don't think it's going back on a pledge to change the way Washington works, because I didn't take that postpartisan stuff very seriously to begin with. Maybe I'm just cynical, because lots of folks (right and left) on this board do seem to care. Of course, . . . and this is where I'd put my money . . . maybe the fact that so many want to believe it is exactly why it was a brilliant tactic by team Axelrod.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

The most hateful, misogynistic pigs are always liberals

"Always," eh? Oh come on. :rolleyes: You can argue "liberals are guilty as often as conservatives, and they can get away with it because they are assumed to have bona fides on the issue." That would be defensible, though not as sexy, and of course the right has its own safe house issues where it gets the breaks (religion, military, law and order).

But when you play the "liberals are actually worse offenders" card you're in propagandist mode. Liberals, on the whole, fought for civil rights, women's rights, gay rights. Conservatives either sat it out or worked aggressively against those movements.

If you're going to take a stand, own it, don't try to rewrite history later. The right has many things going for it. Working for the expansion of minority rights is not one of them, unless you're talking about property rights. Again and again the right has been on the wrong side of those battles, often, as with the civil rights movement, the ERA, and now gay rights, spectacularly and embarrassingly wrong. It's their fatal flaw.
 
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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Sweeping generalizations just save time ... :rolleyes:
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

"Always," eh? Oh come on. :rolleyes:

I tried to make it clear that I was talking about the very worst sexist offenders. Sure, insults come from both sides, and I'm not worried about some knucklehead on an internet board undeservedly calling someone else a whore (although I wouldn't). I'm talking about serious, corrosive hatred in political commentary. It's not coming from Limbaugh, contrary to everything you read.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Again and again the right has been on the wrong side of those battles, often, as with the civil rights movement, the ERA, and now gay rights, spectacularly and embarrassingly wrong. It's their fatal flaw.

I don't know if it's a fatal flaw. Even though such changes seem by modern standards to be inevitable (as gay marriage surely is...it's simply a matter of time before the demographics change enough), slowing the pace of the change isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Roe v. Wade is still a central issue to this day almost solely because the change was instantaneous for those states that didn't allow it. If the change had happened on more of a state-by-state basis, there wouldn't be nearly the outcry. Gradual change is much easier for society to absorb than sudden ones.

Also, the ERA was never adopted (leading to the legal anomoly that gender is not a suspect class for Constitutional purposes; SCOTUS punted under the belief the ERA was going to be adopted). So wasn't the Right right on that one? ;) :D
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

I dunno guys, but I think this country's been going to hell in a hand basket ever since the skirts got the vote. :mad: :eek:


;)
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

I'm talking about serious, corrosive hatred in political commentary.

"My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building."

- Ann Coulter, New York Observer, 08-26-02

"This president has exposed himself, I think, as a guy, over and over and over again, who has a deep-seated hatred for white people, or white culture."

- Glenn Beck, 7-28-09

"I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus - living fossils - so we will never forget what these people stood for."

- Rush Limbaugh, Denver Post, 12-29-95

"If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual gay sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything. All of those things are antithetical to a healthy, stable, traditional family and that's sort of where we are in today's world, unfortunately. It all comes from, I would argue, the right to privacy that doesn't exist, in my opinion, in the United States Constitution."

- Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA), Associated Press, 04-22-03

"Environmentalists are a socialist group of individuals that are the tool of the Democrat Party. I'm proud to say that they are my enemy. They are not Americans, never have been Americans, never will be Americans."

- Rep. Don Young (R-AK), Alaska Public Radio, 08-19-96

"Chelsea is a Clinton. She bears the taint; and though not prosecutable in law, in custom and nature the taint cannot be ignored. All the great despotisms of the past - I'm not arguing for despotism as a principle, but they sure knew how to deal with potential trouble - recognized that the families of objectionable citizens were a continuing threat. In Stalin's penal code it was a crime to be the wife or child of an 'enemy of the people.' The Nazis used the same principle, which they called Sippenhaft, 'clan liability.' In Imperial China, enemies of the state were punished 'to the ninth degree': that is, everyone in the offender's own generation would be killed and everyone related via four generations up, to the great-great-grandparents, and four generations down, to the great-great-grandchildren, would also be killed."

- John Derbyshire, National Review, 02-15-01

"The homosexual blitzkrieg has been better planned and executed than Hitler's."

- Rep. William Dannemeyer (R-CA), The New Republic, 08-01-94

"We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors."

- Ann Coulter, CPAC, 02-26-02

"Quit looking at the symbols. Get out and get a job. Quit shooting each other. Quit having illegitimate babies."

- State Rep. John Graham Altman (R-SC), addressing African-American concerns about the 'symbol' of the Confederate Flag, New York Times, 01-24-97

"Two things made this country great: White men & Christianity. The degree these two have diminished is in direct proportion to the corruption and fall of the nation. Every problem that has arisen (sic) can be directly traced back to our departure from God's Law and the disenfranchisement of White men."

- State Rep. Don Davis (R-NC), emailed to every member of the North Carolina House and Senate, reported by the Fayetteville Observer, 08-22-01
 
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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

"My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building."

- Ann Coulter, New York Observer, 08-26-02

A nice little collection of shame, all of which I'm sure include full context and spirit of utterance.
But I think we're having two different arguments here, so I'll recap my position:
Someone said Palin is a whore.
Huskyfan called it evidence that liberals tend to sexism.
Everyone laughed.
I used Olbermann as an example showing that the worst instances of sexism and misogynism come from left wingers.

That has not been refuted, whatever other evils conservatism is guilty of.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

A nice little collection of shame, all of which I'm sure include full context and spirit of utterance.
But I think we're having two different arguments here, so I'll recap my position:
Someone said Palin is a whore.
Huskyfan called it evidence that liberals tend to sexism.
Everyone laughed.
I used Olbermann as an example showing that the worst instances of sexism and misogynism come from left wingers.

That has not been refuted, whatever other evils conservatism is guilty of.
So you're an absolutist about things that are subjective? Well, that's clearly a right wing trait so good job outta you.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. Keep them coming. :D

Seriously, listen to it with your ears. The spirit of his monologues is the furthest thing from the "hate speech" he's so often accused of. He's a harmless, lovable little fuzzball. ;)
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

A nice little collection of shame, all of which I'm sure include full context and spirit of utterance.

That's the spirit. Denial to the end. I'm sure Coulter's call to kill people is fully justified by context.

Some of those people have been highly influential on the right for decades, and when they make these statements their apologists laugh, or... well, they justify.

If we are ever going to have sane discourse, advocates of the right have to own up to the shame that has been living, flourishing, in their own midst.
 
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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

That's the spirit. Denial to the end. I'm sure Coulter's call to kill people is fully justified by context.

I'm not denying anything here. I'm accusing Keith Olbermann of being a bigger ******* than any conservative.
 
Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

Someone said Palin is a whore.
Huskyfan called it evidence that liberals tend to sexism.
Everyone laughed.
I used Olbermann as an example showing that the worst instances of sexism and misogynism come from left wingers.

At $100k+, plus first class travel and hotel suites, per speaking engagement, I certainly doubt altruism or ideology are driving her these days. So, if I used the term "whore" wrongly, I do apologize. Perhaps she's just a "money grubbing whore" instead.

Edit:

http://nymag.com/news/politics/65628/
 
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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

I'm not denying anything here. I'm accusing Keith Olbermann of being a bigger ******* than any conservative.

No. In plain English you said the "serious, corrosive hatred in political commentary" was not coming from the right. You got carried away -- fine, no foul, happens to all of us -- but you got nailed on it, just flippin' admit your statement was ridiculous. There is plenty of truly diseased hatred spouted off by the right. They've made it a cottage industry.

Everybody's entitled to their rhetorical flourishes, but I don't think you're a hypocrite so in the spirit of being against that sort of rhetoric can you just say "yeah, that was probably a dumb thing to say."
 
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Re: Obama XII: The shine is off the glass slipper

In plain English you said the "serious, corrosive hatred in political commentary" was not coming from the right. You got carried away -- fine, no foul, happens to all of us. There is plenty of truly diseased hatred spouted off by the right. They've made it a cottage industry.

OK.
But seriously, if you had to choose either the federal building or the Times...
 
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