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Obama V: For Vendetta

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Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

That's pretty much what conservatives (even paleocons) said about Sowell when he wrote that inner city blacks are lazy, slutty and criminal because they learned it from southern white hicks.
Do you have a source for that? I'd be interested seeing in what context he may have made those comments.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Someone should send this comment back in time to 2003.

Indeed. It kinda drives home the point on how hypocritical radical liberals like Obama and Pelosi are, and yes, I suppose radical rightwingers too.

It's embarrassing when experience trumps ideology. Sowell is a leading economist of a very particular stripe. His views are strongly ideological and he readily admits it. I worked on a panel with him at Hoover when I was at Stanford in the late 80's (the Soc dept at that time was populated almost exclusively with Hooverite business psych types). Interesting guy, much more self-effacing than his public persona -- very, VERY political and unapologetic about it.

To be cited as somehow above the fray would make him laugh, hard.

His NRO piece was Concern Trolling, same as if Howard Dean had written an op ed about his being "troubled" by an AMA position.

Concern Trolling.... what a nice little term, kinda like fearmongering but done more professionally, legitimately, and intellectually, I suppose. :)

When you think about it though, that's sort of the job of the media, one of their jobs anyway, to expose shady actions of public servants.

While Sowell may make no bones about his disapproval of Obama, there's nothing overly ideological about what he wrote. I'd really be careful about hanging your hat on that as a great example of a rightwing ideologue. That piece was more subdued than many a NY Times and Washington Post op ed, not to mention straight up MSNBC reporting. Heck, its tone was alot more centrist than Sean Hannity or Rush who both fall well short of radical.

That HR 3200 doesn't take effect until after the conclusion of Obama's reelection campaign is news to me. If true, this is very shady indeed. Obama: "Healthcare reform can't wait. We must settle this issue right now. It's much more important than the economy, unemployment, N Korea, Iraq, Iran, or Afghanistan. We can't wait, there is an urgent healthcare crisis. Now, now, now! Oh by the way, once I get the bill passed, none of its provisions will take effect for more than 36 months.... The time for debate is over - we must act now! (So we can twiddle our thumbs with healthcare for more than 36 months.)

Hmmmm.... I dunno guys. When you hear this from a corrupt Washington politician (and let's not kid ourselves, they're almost all corrupt to some degree or another), it doesn't strike you as shady at all? IMO, I think it's far more ideologically driven to know of this little gem and NOT sound the alarm.

EDIT: Not that I know anything about this Sowell guy, the name doesn't ring a bell with me. But that particular piece if true - particularly the 2013 thing - is not only fairly non-ideology driven, it's also doing something that I would expect every political journalist to be doing for America - exposing something a DC politician is doing that appears to be very shady and in the best interests of no one but himself. Yes, I absolutely think things like that merit Concern Trolling. (love that term) ;)
 
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Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Obama made it to the podium without a southern senator caning him. They've made some progress in 50 years.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Ya know what the speech needs...more standing ovations...why is it Congress can be so dead to the world the other days of the year but have the President talk and the jump up and down like a cheerleader on an eight ball? Shut up and let the man speak!
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

The context is a whole book.

It's a very good book. He caught hell for it, from every side, of course.
I'll have to pick the book up from the library and put in on my reading list. If he makes a sensible argument, I wouldn't necessarily call that an extreme position to take (have to read it to see), although I can see that some would. I'll still venture to guess that he has more friends on the right than the left.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

I'll have to pick the book up from the library and put in on my reading list. If he makes a sensible argument, I wouldn't necessarily call that an extreme position to take (have to read it to see), although I can see that some would. I'll still venture to guess that he has more friends on the right than the left.

Roughly the argument goes thusly.

(1) English society in the 1500s and 1600s had a perpetual loser class that did nothing but drink, screw and fight

(2) Those people emigrated to the southern states as indentured farm labor and continued to do nothing but drink, screw and fight

(3) When the slave trade kicked in they finally had somebody lower on the social scale than they, and they initiated the virulent racism that's been characteristic of the white south

(4) During the slave era and afterwards, they passed on their behavior to the black population of the south

(5) They and the former slaves overwhelmed the south demographically and also migrated in two separate waves to the northern cities and ruined them because they do nothing but drink, screw and fight

So now we have two insular, ignorant, vicious subcultures that refuse to improve themselves and blame everybody else for their problems and they both come from that perpetual loser class the Brits kicked out 400 years ago. Everybody else comes to America and succeeds -- they don't because they hate learnin' and hate workin'.
 
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Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Roughly the argument goes thusly.

(1) English society in the 1500s and 1600s had a perpetual loser class that did nothing but drink, screw and fight

(2) Those people emigrated to the southern states as indentured farm labor and continued to do nothing but drink, screw and fight

(3) When the slave trade kicked in they finally had somebody lower on the social scale than they, and they initiated the virulent racism that's been characteristic of the white south

(4) During the slave era and afterwards, they passed on their behavior to the black population of the south

(5) They and the former slaves overwhelmed the south demographically and also migrated in two separate waves to the northern cities and ruined them because they do nothing but drink, screw and fight

So now we have two insular, ignorant, vicious subcultures that refuse to improve themselves and blame everybody else for their problems and they both come from that perpetual loser class the Brits kicked out 400 years ago. Everybody else comes to America and succeeds -- they don't because they hate learnin' and hate workin'.

wow. just wow. this is wrong on so many levels. talk about ignorant.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

wow. just wow. this is wrong on so many levels. talk about ignorant.

I think he's making fun of the argument and not the lower classes.
Or else he's just pure evil.

Or jealous that he can't drink, screw and fight perpetually.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

wow. just wow. this is wrong on so many levels. talk about ignorant.

Please explain, I can see a lot of truth in it looking at it from a historical perspective. I am sure it is not as simplified as Kepler makes it out to be.

I am not saying this is the whole truth but I think he is right in the idea that there was a lower class in England that came here and when there was finally someone lower than them on the totem pole they took every chance they had to lord over the lower beings and act superior. (think of HS...Freshmen got crapped on for a year, then they became Sophomores and were extra harsh on the new Frosh because of how hard they had it) Once the Slaves are freed it just becomes too much to bare and the tension rises...

It is not hard to see the same cycle after the Civil War for the former Slaves...

Like I said it is an interesting theory, not one that people would like to hear but that is why it is actually interesting. And I think there may be more to it than you want to accept.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

I think he's making fun of the argument and not the lower classes.
Or else he's just pure evil.

Or jealous that he can't drink, screw and fight perpetually.

I was sort of making fun of the argument. It's really pretty strong stuff. That's why I was pretty surprised when I talked with TS that he wasn't at all a jerk (although he does have a fairly large Clarence "Yeah I'm a Black Conservative You Wanna Fight About It?" Thomas chip on his shoulder).

BTW, Sowell isn't arguing that all poor people are poor because they're lazy and irresponsible. He's arguing that rednecks are poor because they're lazy and irresponsible. Plus he hates hip hop.

I am kinda jealous I can't drink and screw perpetually -- I should never have left college. For fighting perpetually, there's the Cafe.
 
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Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

I was sort of making fun of the argument. It's really pretty strong stuff. That's why I was pretty surprised when I talked with TS that he wasn't at all a jerk (although he does have a fairly large Clarence "Yeah I'm a Black Conservative You Wanna Fight About It?" Thomas chip on his shoulder).

BTW, Sowell isn't arguing that all poor people are poor because they're lazy and irresponsible. He's arguing that rednecks are poor because they're lazy and irresponsible. Plus he hates hip hop.

I am kinda jealous I can't drink and screw perpetually -- I should never have left college. For fighting perpetually, there's the Cafe.

Sounds like just another black man blaming whitey for keeping a brother down. Just in this case, stupid, ignorant, shiftless, lazy, redneck whitey.
 
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Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

guess I think better of people. that some of those "down and out" (lazy and stupid) English were looking for a chance to make something of themselves. that some of those slaves made something of themselves. that they didn't all remain mired in poverty and ignorance. that painting all of the South with that same story is just another stereotype. like loud and obnoxious East coast people. :)
 
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