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Obama V: For Vendetta

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Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

I don't understand why everyone isn't giving these Death Panels a shot. Ration care of the elderly. The faster they die, the more we save. The answer is to flip flop Medicare. Instead of Medicare starting at 65 it should end at 65.

Problem solved. Buckets loads of money saved.

How about we start with you, you seem like you want to be put out of your misery. It would be humane:D
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

I have to disagree that Obama gave a straight answer on the single payer option yesterday. He is on record as previously saying that he favors the single payer option. If he comes out with a statement that says he was wrong about single payer in the past and has now changed his position on it, that's one thing that would probably ease a lot of people's minds. But if he doesn't do that, we have him talking out of both sides of his mouth, and that doesn't lead to trustworthiness. I haven't seen any such statement from him.

Sure, Obama thinks private health insurance can coexist with a Gov't option, but how can you truly expect private industry to compete for long with the Gov't when a Gov't option doesn't have to make a profit and is supported by an unlimited ability to print money? A public option is very likely to lead to the end of private health insurance, and thus to a single payer.

I am not an advocate of Obama's platform, nor for his health care plan. But out of the desire to drill to the facts, I owed it to myself to watch his town hall meeting and follow how this is going to produce a piece of legislation that Congress will live with. I heard him explain that he is not supporting a single payer system like in Canada (as opposed to his support six years ago and beyond.). I also heard him say that his plan is to provide a gov't option (or universal option) to compete with private insurers. I have previously mentioned that he did not satisfy my own litmus test for proof that, as you state, a gov't plan will not drive private insurers out of the market. He did state that a gov't option will have to be self sustaining based on the premiums it charges... and not supplemented by tax dollars, which is his justification for a level and fair competitive push on private insurers. I am skeptical because that is not how big gov't plays, nor how most social programs stay afloat. Besides, as I have posted in the other thread, I doubt that his method of wealth redistribution and other gap funding through healthcare streamlining will not affect the 95% he pledged not to raise taxes on. There is also the regulatory issues that private insurance companies also face, versus how this new optional gov't plan will be regulated. My biggest concerns are maintaining our personal choice in our healthcare and the costs to provide a government option.


I am simply keeping an open mind on the concept since I do believe that changes have to be made not only to provide for the uninsured, but for the sake of the future economy. As a citizen I want to be informed and will give the Obama leadership the opportunity to prove my doubts wrong before I level the type of criticism the left laid on the Bush administration.

Oh, and as a sidenote, neg reps and being called "retarded" sounds like liberal handywork to me. Thanks, keep up the good work. Glad to hear you have patience for me, whomever you are. I still have a 2-1 rep advantage for the thread.
 
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Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

I also consider it highly amusing that you consider yourself to have "schooled" me. despite having refuted my comments in no real way, and having made no real points yourself.

I didn't have to refute your comments. Your refusal to provide any real backup for your claims are refutation enough. And that was my point in its entirety.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Oh, and as a sidenote, neg reps and being called "retarded" sounds like liberal handywork to me. Thanks, keep up the good work. Glad to hear you have patience for me, whomever you are. I still have a 2-1 rep advantage for the thread.
Okay, so negrepping and calling you retarded is pretty silly. I know you aren't seriously saying that being insulting is an inherently liberal trait, though, because that would be at least as silly as the things you mention.
I didn't have to refute your comments. Your refusal to provide any real backup for your claims are refutation enough. And that was my point in its entirety.

Except that I did provide support for my claim.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

And that I showed how silly that "support" was. Ah well.

No. You showed that you didn't care about the support I showed, and that it wasn't going to have any effect on your opinion. You did not show that it was silly. Saying it is silly is not the same as showing it.:rolleyes:
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

No. You showed that you didn't care about the support I showed, and that it wasn't going to have any effect on your opinion.

That is SO cute. 76% of the people who read that post will agree.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Okay, so negrepping and calling you retarded is pretty silly. I know you aren't seriously saying that being insulting is an inherently liberal trait, though, because that would be at least as silly as the things you mention.

At least I agree on your first point. The rest is conjecture and personal opinion on both of our parts, especially when you disagree. I think you proved my point, though. When in doubt, insult, and keep insulting. Silly must be the word of the day.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

At least I agree on your first point. The rest is conjecture and personal opinion on both of our parts, especially when you disagree. I think you proved my point, though. When in doubt, insult, and keep insulting. Silly must be the word of the day.

Ummm...

Which part of my post was insulting?

And my point was that conservatives get just as insulting as liberals.

(If there was confusion because you thought I meant you specifically were insulting, I apologize, because I did not mean that. But surely you can't think that liberals are insulting while all conservatives are nothing but polite and respectful.)

(Oy. I wrote my post badly. When I said "the things you mention" I was referring to negrepping and insulting, not to the content of your previous post, as I now see that it might have looked like.)
 
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Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Ummm...

Which part of my post was insulting?

And my point was that conservatives get just as insulting as liberals.

(If there was confusion because you thought I meant you specifically were insulting, I apologize, because I did not mean that. But surely you can't think that liberals are insulting while all conservatives are nothing but polite and respectful.)

(Oy. I wrote my post badly. When I said "the things you mention" I was referring to negrepping and insulting, not to the content of your previous post, as I now see that it might have looked like.)

Okay. We're good. And yes, I concur that there are idiots on both sides of the fence.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

We should study Canada and Sweden and hopefully as many other countries as possible, in order to develop a better health care system than what they may have, (which could possibly *GASP* result in better health care systems world-wide).

Do not IGNORE other countries experiences, learn from and improve upon them.

Unless you'd like to just go ahead and leave everything as it is. I mean, you seem to be fine... so let's just tell that to the unnamed 40+ million human beings in this country without the ability to go to get preventative, precautionary, reactionary, or necessary care. I'm sure they'd love to watch you "literally cry laughing" about their lack of coverage.
Why does America's move have to be towards more socialized health care, like other countried, at all? Why can't the answer be more like Definity Health offered as its insurance plans prior to be purchased by United Health? They created a cheaper insurance model that encouraged people to price shop their doctors, clinics, medicines, etc.. The insured would get the service required, submit the bill to the insurance company, and the company would pay a set rate which had been agreed upon in the contract signed between the insured and the insurance company.

This initial out-of-pocket expense would act as a market catalyst for people in the insurance program to find a provider who would work for a cheaper rate, and likely be more inclined to purchase the generic drugs than the name brands.

The rest of this post would normally on, and I'm sure I would be impressive, but it's late, I just got done with hockey, and I need sleep before having to wake up in four hours. I don't think my doctor would approve of this sleeping habit of mine - it's not healthy.
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

I am not an advocate of Obama's platform, nor for his health care plan. But out of the desire to drill to the facts, I owed it to myself to watch his town hall meeting and follow how this is going to produce a piece of legislation that Congress will live with. I heard him explain that he is not supporting a single payer system like in Canada (as opposed to his support six years ago and beyond.). I also heard him say that his plan is to provide a gov't option (or universal option) to compete with private insurers. I have previously mentioned that he did not satisfy my own litmus test for proof that, as you state, a gov't plan will not drive private insurers out of the market. He did state that a gov't option will have to be self sustaining based on the premiums it charges... and not supplemented by tax dollars, which is his justification for a level and fair competitive push on private insurers. I am skeptical because that is not how big gov't plays, nor how most social programs stay afloat. Besides, as I have posted in the other thread, I doubt that his method of wealth redistribution and other gap funding through healthcare streamlining will not affect the 95% he pledged not to raise taxes on. There is also the regulatory issues that private insurance companies also face, versus how this new optional gov't plan will be regulated. My biggest concerns are maintaining our personal choice in our healthcare and the costs to provide a government option.


I am simply keeping an open mind on the concept since I do believe that changes have to be made not only to provide for the uninsured, but for the sake of the future economy. As a citizen I want to be informed and will give the Obama leadership the opportunity to prove my doubts wrong before I level the type of criticism the left laid on the Bush administration.

I think this is a fair assessment of the questions that should be asked and answered.

I don't think my doctor would approve of this sleeping habit of mine - it's not healthy.

Pre-existing condition!!1!! :eek:
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

Who cares how old you are, one less body in the system has to help. A penny saved is a penny earned

You're losing money by knocking me off. Currently I am paying more into the system than I am taking out. Once that reverses I'll be the first to call you so you can knock me off.

Stewart, hilarious as always.

"Great. Welcome to FOX, can you start on Monday." Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelarious.
 
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Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

So a public option will have cheap premiums? Not sure I see how folks on welfare or minimum wage jobs could afford to pay. If they're the only ones on the public option not sure I see how its self sustaining?

People on welfare or minumum wage jobs are most likely covered by Medicaid already. In essense they're already covered. If I understand the Prez correctly, the idea is to set up an exchange where non-covered people can shop for a policy offered by any insurance company willing to abide by certain parameters (can't deny for pre-existing conditions, etc). One of those "insurers" bidding for your business is a public plan. Since the really low income already have Medicaid, this is for people higher up on the scale.

More info:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Attn: Glenn Beck viewers and others concerned about socialized medicine

The gulf between the paranoia of some on the right (government-sponsored euthanasia) and the reality of the Senate Finance Committee is vast (industry-friendly reform).

It may make good TV to highlight those who think that President Obama is leading the country on a path to Socialism, but I wonder if those out screaming at town halls even know who Max Baucus is.

If they did, they may not be so worried.

Well, at least the ones who are genuninely concerned about healthcare and not just venting about a president they loathe.

To the former, read David Kirkpatrick in today's Times:

The Finance Committee, for example, appears to be coalescing around the idea of nonprofit insurance cooperatives instead of a government-run plan. It is a proposal the health care industry prefers, but many liberal Democrats oppose, in both cases because cooperatives are likely to have less leverage over health care prices.

Rahm Emanuel, the White House chief of staff, disputed that the administration had elevated the work of the Senate finance panel above the four other committees that have all approved strong government insurers.

“They are an important committee,” Mr. Emanuel said. “They have a bipartisan process. The president would like that to work, just as he is proud that the other committees have done their work. They don’t get an exalted status over everybody else.”

But he also acknowledged the political realities that have made the Finance Committee’s still-unfinished cooperative plan a center of attention.

“We have heard from both chambers that the House sees a public plan as essential for the final product, and the Senate believes it cannot pass it as constructed and a co-op is what they can do,” Mr. Emanuel said. “We are cognizant of that fact.”

Asked whether the president would accept the weaker co-op, Mr. Emanuel declined to comment. “I am not going to fast-forward the process,” he said.

Industry lobbyists and moderate Democrats in both chambers, though, argue that the White House’s actions behind the scenes show a recognition that the finance panel’s anticipated compromise is the most likely template for any final legislation.

“The House has largely been a sideshow,” said Representative Jim Cooper of Tennessee, a member of the so-called Blue Dog caucus of conservative Democrats. “The Senate Finance Committee is where it really matters. That’s the bottleneck.”
 
Re: Obama V: For Vendetta

People on welfare or minumum wage jobs are most likely covered by Medicaid already. In essense they're already covered. .”

I thought everyone would go on the plan, not just the ones who can afford it.
 
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