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Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

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Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

But if the demand is there, shouldn't the sanitation workers be paid whatever the market bears, even if it's six figures?
But if the supply is there, why shouldn't the sanitation workers be paid whatever the market bears, even if it's nowhere near six figures?
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

So if I'm an employer I can promise you a $100,000 a year retirement to get you in the door, but then just before you retire tell you it is now only $5,000? Awesome for employers. Sucks for employees though.
Happens all the time - that's practically what Chapter 11 is for.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Happens all the time - that's practically what Chapter 11 is for.

That is what the workers in Wisconsin are trying to prevent. That's wrong?
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

I go back to the stat I read in my Public Policy class...students spend 88% of their time outside of school and out of the influence of teachers. If they arent learning (or being put in a position to learn) during that 88% nothing a teacher does in the other 12% is going to make much of a difference either way.

Intersting point. However this seems to marginalize the roles of teachers and puts it back on parents, family, etc... (note that parents should bear a significant weight of this whole thing) so that leads to the question of why do they deserve any perks at all or need to collectively bargain since they don't play a significant role in our kids lives? Give them minimum wage and call it a day.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Tax breaks or increased welfare checks (depending on the family's financial situation) based on school aged students grades, attendance and conduct at school. BOOM! Parent involvement will skyrocket! :D
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

That is what the workers in Wisconsin are trying to prevent. That's wrong?
Not at all - they can try to prevent it all they like. Nothing wrong with that at all. I just won't feel sorry for them when they fail, and end up getting something closer to what people in the private sector get.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Not at all - they can try to prevent it all they like. Nothing wrong with that at all. I just won't feel sorry for them when they fail, and end up getting something closer to what people in the private sector get.

So even though they paid into the system you have no problem now telling them to pound sand? And if your employer did this, it would be just fine?
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Not at all - they can try to prevent it all they like. Nothing wrong with that at all. I just won't feel sorry for them when they fail, and end up getting something closer to what people in the private sector get.

Doesn't this kind of pull jobs away from the next generation when the teachers whose retirement was decimated have to work until they die?
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

So even though they paid into the system you have no problem now telling them to pound sand? And if your employer did this, it would be just fine?

You are on a roll. "Getting something closer to what people in the private sector get," is not "pounding sand."

Sheesh.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

You are on a roll. "Getting something closer to what people in the private sector get," is not "pounding sand."

Sheesh.

Maybe the private sector middle class should be getting more? Oh, that's right they're getting too much. That's why the wage disparity in this country is going up instead of down. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Doesn't this kind of pull jobs away from the next generation when the teachers whose retirement was decimated have to work until they die?

They shouldn't be going to school anyway. They should be hard at work. It'll be good for them!
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

You are on a roll. "Getting something closer to what people in the private sector get," is not "pounding sand."

Sheesh.
That sounds very communist of you. Why should everybody be paid the same?
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

You are on a roll. "Getting something closer to what people in the private sector get," is not "pounding sand."

Sheesh.

They paid for something, were promised they would get it and now it's being taken away. What do you call it?
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Polls show Americans view congress with the same enthusiasm they have for their proctologist. Yet many of these same Americans view their own congressman favorably. I think when we look back on our experiences in primary and secondary education, a similar phenomenon obtains. Of course, the group posting here is clearly superior, given that they're college hockey fans and the probability that the vast majority of them are college graduates. That speaks well for their high schools, parents, teachers and communities. But what is true for us is very likely not true for huge numbers of kids around the country.

I was graduated from a Chicago suburban school that makes the Newsweek list every year. And it wasn't until I got a job in Louisiana that I met my first high school principal who had been the head football coach. That would NEVER happen at my school and is unlikely to happen at any first rate school anywhere. Excellence is not spread evenly around the country. And certainly excellence by teachers isn't spread evenly, and never has been. However, it seems to me we've lowered the floor of acceptable competence by teachers. And the unions complicate that problem by making it much tougher to get rid of ineffective or incompetent teachers.

I also believe we're seeing the Law of Unintended Consequences in action in that many extraordinarily gifted young women, who a generation or two ago had very limited career options, now don't even consider teaching. In my high school days, I was taught by numerous female teachers with PhDs, who had written the texts we were using. Now, I'm pretty sure those ladies would be doing something else.

As I said earlier, it wouldn't be fair to blame teachers exclusively for the horrible state of education in our inner cities. There's plenty of blame to go around. However, they must bear some of the blame. And I believe unions must bear some of that blame, too. Unions focus on compensation, benefits and working conditions. None of these has been shown to have a direct bearing on the quality of education. There is a theoretical amount of money that could probably attract better teachers, but I doubt that even Scarsdale and Lake Forest could afford it.

We need to reward excellence by teachers when we find it, encourage better performance when we don't and take steps to remove teachers from the classroom who are unwilling or unable to even try to improve their work.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

They paid for something, were promised they would get it and now it's being taken away. What do you call it?
Life sucks. As I said, it happens to people in the private sector all the time when companies go bankrupt - governments are bankrupt now, there's just no Chapter number for it.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Stealing.

Apparently not. It's called capitalism. The Koch Brothers AND the state workers can't both win, so the governor is choosing the Koch brothers.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Life sucks. As I said, it happens to people in the private sector all the time when companies go bankrupt - governments are bankrupt now, there's just no Chapter number for it.

Actually, if Walker repeals the tax cuts he enacted days before this whole mess started the state would magically have the money.

Strange how that happens.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

Life sucks. As I said, it happens to people in the private sector all the time when companies go bankrupt - governments are bankrupt now, there's just no Chapter number for it.

I believe the chapter is 234 ;) (will be 235 on July 4th)

bigblue,

While I know you are kidding, it is sad how quickly things would change if such an idea was implemented. That is not me endorsing it, just making commentary on it.
 
Re: Obama Presidential Thread XIX: Starting a new chapter

So if I'm an employer I can promise you a $100,000 a year retirement to get you in the door, but then just before you retire tell you it is now only $5,000? Awesome for employers. Sucks for employees though.

Where is this happening, Maine?
 
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