Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

[rufus]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

It's a movie about astronauts, right?

Or is it that John Cusack movie, where he travels cross country to hook up with some hottie?

 

[Bill]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

I'll say it again. Elections have consequences. The Dems are certainly willing to listen to and adopt Republican ideas if that means republicans will vote for the bill. The R's have made no such agreements, thus their amendments are out.

You don't think the Reps are refusing to vote for the bill because the Dems are refusing to consider anything the Reps propose? It works both ways. What makes you think the Dems are willing to listen to and adopt Rep ideas?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

You don't think the Reps are refusing to vote for the bill because the Dems are refusing to consider anything the Reps propose? It works both ways. What makes you think the Dems are willing to listen to and adopt Rep ideas?

He already addressed that. You probably couldn't understand that cause you're in "clean sheet of paper" mode.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

He already addressed that. You probably couldn't understand that cause you're in "clean sheet of paper" mode.

Thats right, push it through no matter what, to the victors go the spoils

 

[Bill]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

He already addressed that. You probably couldn't understand that cause you're in "clean sheet of paper" mode.

No he didn't. He addressed the flip side of that coin.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Be it 2 years or 6 years, the blues will be crying the blues for their 'to the winners' attitude. And then 4 or 8 years later the same tune will be sung by the reds. And you are ok with that? That is how we should be running this country?

Would you run your family that way, your business, your interactions with people you don't know? Is that really the philosophy behind our country and our government? The majority should screw the minority for the same reason a dog licks his balls?

****ing brilliant.

 

[rufus]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

You don't think the Reps are refusing to vote for the bill because the Dems are refusing to consider anything the Reps propose? It works both ways. What makes you think the Dems are willing to listen to and adopt Rep ideas?

Cause of all the Repub stuff that made it in the final bill? Just a thought.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

You don't think the Reps are refusing to vote for the bill because the Dems are refusing to consider anything the Reps propose? It works both ways. What makes you think the Dems are willing to listen to and adopt Rep ideas?

Right.

Review a few of the Republican initiatives included in legislation passed by Congress:
Includes personal responsibility incentives: Allows health insurance premium to vary based on participation in proven employer wellness programs
(Sources: H.R. 3468, “Promoting Health and Preventing Chronic Disease through Prevention and Wellness Programs for Employees, Communities, and Individuals Act” (Castle bill); H.R. 4038, “Common Sense Health Care Reform & Accountability Act” (Republican Substitute bill); H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act” (Kirk bill), "Coverage, Prevention and Reform Act")
Advances medical liability reform through grants to States: Provides grants to States to jump-start and evaluate promising medical liability reform ideas to put patient safety first, prevent medical errors, and reduce liability premiums.
(Sources: S. 1783, “Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act” (Enzi bill); H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); H.R. 4529, “Roadmap for America’s Future Act” (Ryan bill); S. 1099, “Patients’ Choice Act” (Burr-Coburn, Ryan-Nunes bill))
Extends dependent coverage to age 26: Gives young adults new options.
(Sources: H.R. 4038, “Common Sense Health Care Reform & Accountability Act” (Republican Substitute bill); H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act” (Kirk bill))
Allows automatic enrollment by employers in health insurance: Allows employee to opt-out.
(Sources: House Republican Substitute; H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill); “Coverage, Prevention, and Reform Act” )
Mechanisms to improve quality.
(Sources: H.R. 4529, “Roadmap for America’s Future Act;” S. 1099, “Patients’ Choice Act;” H.R. 3400, Republican Study Group bill; S. 1783, “Ten Steps to Transform Health Care in America Act” (Enzi bill))

Review the new Republican initiatives included in the President’s Proposal:
Comprehensive Sanctions Database. The President’s Proposal establishes a comprehensive Medicare and Medicaid sanctions database, overseen by the HHS Inspector General. This database will provide a central storage location, allowing for law enforcement access to information related to past sanctions on health care providers, suppliers and related entities.
(Source: H.R. 3400, “Empowering Patients First Act” (Republican Study Committee bill))
Registration and Background Checks of Billing Agencies and Individuals. In an effort to decrease dishonest billing practices in the Medicare program, the President’s Proposal will assist in reducing the number of individuals and agencies with a history of fraudulent activities participating in Federal health care programs. It ensures that entities that bill for Medicare on behalf of providers are in good standing. It also strengthens the Secretary’s ability to exclude from Medicare individuals who knowingly submit false or fraudulent claims.
(Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act”)
Expanded Access to the Healthcare Integrity and Protection Data Bank. Increasing access to the health care integrity data bank will improve coordination and information sharing in anti-fraud efforts. The President’s Proposal broadens access to the data bank to quality control and peer review organizations and private plans that are involved in furnishing items or services reimbursed by Federal health care program. It includes criminal penalties for misuse.
(Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act”)
Liability of Medicare Administrative Contractors for Claims Submitted by Excluded Providers. In attacking fraud, it is critical to ensure the contractors that are paying claims are doing their utmost to ensure excluded providers do not receive Medicare payments. Therefore, the President’s Proposal provision holds Medicare Administrative Contractors accountable for Federal payment for individuals or entities excluded from the Federal programs or items or services for which payment is denied.
(Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act”)
Community Mental Health Centers. The President’s Proposal ensures that individuals have access to comprehensive mental health services in the community setting, but strengthens standards for facilities that seek reimbursement as community mental health centers by ensuring these facilities are not taking advantage of Medicare patients or the taxpayers.
(Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act”)
Limiting Debt Discharge in Bankruptcies of Fraudulent Health Care Providers or Suppliers. The President’s Proposal will assist in recovering overpayments made to providers and suppliers and return such funds to the Medicare Trust Fund. It prevents fraudulent health care providers from discharging through bankruptcy amounts due to the Secretary from overpayments.
(Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act”)
Use of Technology for Real-Time Data Review. The President’s Proposal speeds access to claims data to identify potentially fraudulent payments more quickly. It establishes a system for using technology to provide real-time data analysis of claim and payments under public programs to identify and stop waste, fraud and abuse.
(Source: Roskam Amendment offered in House Ways & Means Committee markup)
Illegal Distribution of a Medicare or Medicaid Beneficiary Identification or Billing Privileges. Fraudulent billing to Medicare and Medicaid programs costs taxpayers millions of dollars each year. Individuals looking to gain access to a beneficiary’s personal information approach Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries with false incentives. Many beneficiaries unwittingly give over this personal information without ever receiving promised services. The President’s Proposal adds strong sanctions, including jail time, for individuals who purchase, sell or distribute Medicare beneficiary identification numbers or billing privileges under Medicare or Medicaid – if done knowingly, intentionally, and with intent to defraud.
(Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act”)
Study of Universal Product Numbers Claims Forms for Selected Items and Services Under the Medicare Program. The President’s Proposal requires HHS to study and issue a report to Congress that examines the costs and benefits of assigning universal product numbers (UPNs) to selected items and services reimbursed under Medicare. The report must examine whether UPNs could help improve the efficient operation of Medicare and its ability to detect fraud and abuse.
(Source: H.R. 3970, “Medical Rights & Reform Act”, Roskam Amendment offered in House Ways & Means Committee markup)

No Republican ideas at all.

 

[Bill]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Right.

No Republican ideas at all

My mistake for using the word "anything" when obviously there were going to some Reb ideas in the bill, but the disagreement (at all levels) seems to be ideas of more substance. That's where it needs to work both ways. If the Dems want some Rep votes they need to make more of an effort to consider and include some of the more substantial Rep ideas (such as in the links I provided) and the Reps need to be willing to vote yea if the Dems do so. But for anyone to say the Reps haven't had any ideas of substance is pure BS and everyone knows it.

 

[blockski]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

My mistake for using the word "anything" when obviously there were going to some Reb ideas in the bill, but the disagreement (at all levels) seems to be ideas of more substance. That's where it needs to work both ways. If the Dems want some Rep votes they need to make more of an effort to consider and include some of the more substantial Rep ideas (such as in the links I provided) and the Reps need to be willing to vote yea if the Dems do so. But for anyone to say the Reps haven't had any ideas of substance is pure BS and everyone knows it.

They haven't offered anything of substance, because the core of their idea is that there isn't really a problem. They think costs are a problem, but offer no mechanism to actually lower them. This is a big issue that must be dealt with in a comprehensive manor, and all the Republicans are doing is trying to slow down the process and split it up into piecemeal reforms.

Again, the Repubs haven't earned the right to have their broader philosophy considered. Elections have consequences, and thus the philosophy behind this effort is quite centrist, leaning only very slightly to the left - which accurately represents the makeup of the D party.

Regardless of policy, however, the Republicans won't vote for anything the Dems propose because doing so does not help their election efforts. It's that simple. They don't care about governing or actually solving problems right now.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Cause of all the Repub stuff that made it in the final bill? Just a thought.

you mean all the stuff they added so that they won't get blown out of the water in November to show how "reasonable" they are... fundamentals are, of course, the same. The goal is still to make private health insurance more and more expensive as to claim that a private insurance market is unethical and unreasonable.

Most of this stuff has been a reactive posturing in light of the Tea Party stuff and the unmitigated disaster of the town halls for Dems. Right now they're reacting off of the american people with the lever being the congressional Republicans holding their line.

What about all the stuff still in the bill and likely will make the final bill... for instance, the "death panel" stuff will likely be in whatever bill the president signs.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

They haven't offered anything of substance, because the core of their idea is that there isn't really a problem. They think costs are a problem, but offer no mechanism to actually lower them. This is a big issue that must be dealt with in a comprehensive manor, and all the Republicans are doing is trying to slow down the process and split it up into piecemeal reforms.

Which is obviously why we're having a full blown conversation on this that involves all parts. OK, I'm wrong, we're not having that. We're having a sequence of bizarre procedural maneuvers in regards to a 1400 page bill drawn up largely in the backrooms of the US Congress. The entire conservation has been fairly shallow except from the end of costs which are going to be large and far reaching. The only policy discussions that have been had so far have been amongst the cloistered set of individuals who support single-payer as a general rule and have been writing position papers for the same for decades.

Again, the Repubs haven't earned the right to have their broader philosophy considered. Elections have consequences, and thus the philosophy behind this effort is quite centrist, leaning only very slightly to the left - which accurately represents the makeup of the D party.

So, you're telling me that the elections of 2008 reflect the CURRENT thoughts of the electorate as it stands right now. Aside from that, none of what's being mentioned here can be honestly be deemed "centerist". Most people voted for a group that they thought would operate from reason... instead most of this has been emotional blackmail. We're not even talking about a conversation that goes as deep as philosophy. I'm sure you might even believe this block of text. The democrats never clearly state what they believe. Why would they? They're never going to say that they're going to cut down on spending on geriatric patients. They will never say that its more ethical for everybody to have the equal options from a bad slate of options than an unequal availability to a better set of options. They'd never get elected on that slate.

edit: this reminds me of the totalitarian mindset we're dealing with... "haven't earned the right to have their broader philosophy considered"... I'm sorry, how does that right get earned? When was it taken away? This sounds more like thug ideology than reason.

Regardless of policy, however, the Republicans won't vote for anything the Dems propose because doing so does not help their election efforts. It's that simple. They don't care about governing or actually solving problems right now.

Since when have the Dems been about solving problems? "I'm a better person than you" isn't a solution, its self-gratification. The Dems only interest is in gaining control of health care sot that they can show how great they are as people... and this is the most fundamental of their current positions in regards to this notion. This is all about showing how "moral we can be" and all this other stuff. The truth of the matter be ****ed. Universal health care and other alternatives has always been a moralistic crisis.

I thought we didn't want moralists in our government? Or is that only when it starts with the words " we believe in one god..."?

 

[rufus]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

you mean all the stuff they added so that they won't get blown out of the water in November to show how "reasonable" they are... fundamentals are, of course, the same. The goal is still to make private health insurance more and more expensive as to claim that a private insurance market is unethical and unreasonable.

Most of this stuff has been a reactive posturing in light of the Tea Party stuff and the unmitigated disaster of the town halls for Dems. Right now they're reacting off of the american people with the lever being the congressional Republicans holding their line.

What about all the stuff still in the bill and likely will make the final bill... for instance, the "death panel" stuff will likely be in whatever bill the president signs.

See, no one can win with you. They put Repub suggestions into the bill, and it's only because of some sneaky, underhanded plan to steal elections. They don't put repub suggestions into the bill, and it's because they're ultra partisan Socialists trying to engineer some desired liberal paradise.

Nothing they ever do will receive any kind of acceptance or acknowledgement on your part, and the part of the rest of the wingnuts. There'll always be something to attack them on, and if there isn't, you'll just make something up and go to town.

'Death panel stuff'? Are we still stuck on that, Sarah?

Jesus Christ, get a grip. Take off your tin foil helmet and try to re-enter some sort of reality. What a frickin' idiot you are.

 

[blockski]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Which is obviously why we're having a full blown conversation on this that involves all parts. OK, I'm wrong, we're not having that. We're having a sequence of bizarre procedural maneuvers in regards to a 1400 page bill drawn up largely in the backrooms of the US Congress. The entire conservation has been fairly shallow except from the end of costs which are going to be large and far reaching. The only policy discussions that have been had so far have been amongst the cloistered set of individuals who support single-payer as a general rule and have been writing position papers for the same for decades.

Welcome to Washington, Patman. Please don't act surprised. This is the way it works. Complaining about it is either an act of obstructionism and obfuscation or a sign of severe ignorance about our legislative system.

I'm not really sure what to say here. The process here isn't any different than it is for any other piece of legislation.

So, you're telling me that the elections of 2008 reflect the CURRENT thoughts of the electorate as it stands right now. Aside from that, none of what's being mentioned here can be honestly be deemed "centerist". Most people voted for a group that they thought would operate from reason... instead most of this has been emotional blackmail. We're not even talking about a conversation that goes as deep as philosophy. I'm sure you might even believe this block of text. The democrats never clearly state what they believe. Why would they? They're never going to say that they're going to cut down on spending on geriatric patients. They will never say that its more ethical for everybody to have the equal options from a bad slate of options than an unequal availability to a better set of options. They'd never get elected on that slate.

Again, basic civics: We live in a representative democracy. You elect people to represent you for a given period of time.

As far as the bill goes, pretty much every neutral or objective observer will describe this bill as very centrist. If it were actually to the left, we'd be talking about single-payer, Medicare-for-all or something along those lines, not insurance.

edit: this reminds me of the totalitarian mindset we're dealing with... "haven't earned the right to have their broader philosophy considered"... I'm sorry, how does that right get earned? When was it taken away? This sounds more like thug ideology than reason.

Republicans can earn that right by winning elections.

Seriously, are you really asking this? If the Dems run on a platform of universal healthcare, why the hell would you expect them to suddenly accept the Republican philosophy of market based trickle-down health economics?

Why should Dems adopt a platform of de-regulation when the Dems ran and won arguing the opposite?

Repeat after me: Elections have consequences.

Since when have the Dems been about solving problems? "I'm a better person than you" isn't a solution, its self-gratification. The Dems only interest is in gaining control of health care sot that they can show how great they are as people... and this is the most fundamental of their current positions in regards to this notion. This is all about showing how "moral we can be" and all this other stuff. The truth of the matter be ****ed. Universal health care and other alternatives has always been a moralistic crisis.

No, it's not. Universal coverage is the moral thing to do, yes, but it's also the crucial key to solving the economic problem of the insurance death spiral. You need to broaden the risk pool. The Dem plan improves coverage, will help the deficit, and will lower costs.

This is a long term problem that will get worse before it gets better. It needs to be dealt with, and the Republican solution is to maintain the status quo? Ok. Good luck with that.

Today's NYT had a good piece on the fallacy of the idea of protecting the status quo - the status quo can't even protect itself:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/28/w...tml?scp=1&sq=the cost of doing nothing&st=cse

Suppose Congress and President Obama fail to overhaul the system now, or just tinker around the edges, or start over, as the Republicans propose — despite the Democrats’ latest and possibly last big push that began last week at a marathon televised forum in Washington.

Then “my health care” stays the same, right?

Far from it, health policy analysts and economists of nearly every ideological persuasion agree. The unrelenting rise in medical costs is likely to wreak havoc within the system and beyond it, and pretty much everyone will be affected, directly or indirectly.

“People think if we do nothing, we will have what we have now,” said Karen Davis, the president of the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit health care research group in New York. “In fact, what we will have is a substantial deterioration in what we have.”

Nearly every mainstream analysis calls for medical costs to continue to climb over the next decade, outpacing the growth in the overall economy and certainly increasing faster than the average paycheck. Those higher costs will translate into higher premiums, which will mean fewer individuals and businesses will be able to afford insurance coverage. More of everyone’s dollar will go to health care, and government programs like Medicare and Medicaid will struggle to find the money to operate.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Huzzah, now that the olympics are over we can start hating each other again instead of the canadians.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Huzzah, now that the olympics are over we can start hating each other again instead of the canadians.

Why are we limited to one over the other?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Why are we limited to one over the other?

Good point.

 

[SteveP]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Huzzah, now that the olympics are over we can start hating each other again instead of the canadians.

Well, you're not going to like this:

Prime Minister Stephen Harper and U.S. President Barack Obama each wagered a case of beer on the outcome of the Olympic men’s hockey final. Now that Canada has won, Obama owes Harper a case of Canadian. If the U.S. had won, Harper would have owed Obama a case of Yuengling beer.

Harper and Obama’s aides also bet on the game. Dimitri Soudas, Harper’s press secretary, won last week’s bet over the women’s final when Canada beat the U.S. 2-0. Presidential press secretary Robert Gibbs was to wear a Canadian hockey jersey for the first 15 minutes of a media briefing, but Soudas and Gibbs decided to go another round over the men’s gold medal game.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Well, you're not going to like this:

I hate bets between politicians. They already have a bet with themselves on which side can screw up the country faster.

 

[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

I hate bets between politicians. They already have a bet with themselves on which side can screw up the country faster.

The Dems are certainly "winning" that bet at this juncture:

- Healthcare for everyone, but on the shoulders of middle class via increased taxes
- A White House more polarizing/partisan than G W Bush's
- No 2 million jobs (you remember the jobs Obama promised)
- How's that Gitmo, Iraq/Afghanistan Wars, and prosecuting Al Queda going
- 10.2% unemployment rate

Yes sir, we are experiencing good times in America.

Sarcasm aside, I do have one serious question. Can anyone show me, or tell me about a single government run program that was profitable and not a cash burning organization: Amtrak? Medicare? Social Security? Post Office? Medicaid?