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Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

eaglehockeyrules said:
People in America are ticked off, and it is not just SEIU either, but seemingly folks are voting out anyone with "D" after their name: see Virginia, New Jersey and Massachusetts.
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And now it appears Scott Brown the Repubs little darling is a RINO cause he voted for Obama's jobs (porky pig) bill.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

rufus said:
Right. If they were so gung ho to reform healthcare, then why haven't they done so in the 16 years since 1994? Yiu know, offer even something?
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I think it's pretty obvious actually. They don't want it. But, they know if the Democrats pass it they may lock up the Senior vote for the next 6000 years. The same vote they pandered to when they passed the unfunded, unaffordable, prescription drug benefit.

It's never about what's best for America. It's about power and how to keep it.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

MinnFan said:
A Good Start

Bi-partisan bill to lower the corporate tax rate from 35% to 24% and reduce the number of income tax brackets.
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Yeah, cause when we're running a deficit in the trillions, the first thing we should do is cut taxes and increase the deficit even more!

(Again, I'm all for lower taxes long term. But let's pay off that debt first, ok?)
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

blockski said:
There's more to it than that. Smokers should and do pay much higher premiums for their insurance because of their higher risk. It's the same thing with auto insurance - riskier drivers pay more.

We also tax the sale of tobacco for this purpose and regulate the sale and use. This isn't just to raise funds, it's also a tax to reduce smoking by increasing the price.

Point being, your hypothetical for an all-out ban is not completely necessary. We've built in a number of policies designed to help cover the negative externalities (such as second-hand smoke) and keep the risk costs personal - those that chose to take more risk via smoking will pay more in premiums.

So, I don't find your slippery slope scenario all that troubling.
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Good points...

So you agree that the taxes are designed to reduce a practice ...why reduce it instead of eliminating it? Why tax people to death, or 'til death? I tried to bring up the distraction aspect...even if the taxes completely offset the costs...should we have the number one issue our healthcare system addresses be something that we could have entirely prevented? Since doctors and hospitals are not unlimited how much of our capacity should be consumed by something so controllable.

I don't disagree that the smoker pays more in premiums but they don't pay enough to cover the cost of 10 years of lung cancer treatment (should it last that long). Everyone else is still subsidizing the long-term care. Risky drivers don't pay enough or low risk drivers would pay the same amount in every state (adjusted for theft).

We require seatbelts and airbags to try to mitigate the impact of something that frequently not be prevented, but we just tax smokers and allow a behavior that is far more detrimental to the welfare of the country to go along as long as we get some tax revenue. I don't get it.

I may not convince you...I just need to convince 51% of the voters:D
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

unofan said:
Yeah, cause when we're running a deficit in the trillions, the first thing we should do is cut taxes and increase the deficit even more!

(Again, I'm all for lower taxes long term. But let's pay off that debt first, ok?)
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Have you heard of the Laffer Curve?

If you really want to cut the deficit you are way better off cutting spending and reducing taxes to encourage growth than keeping the current tax rate or increasing taxes.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

MinnFan said:
Have you heard of the Laffer Curve?

If you really want to cut the deficit you are way better off cutting spending and reducing taxes to encourage growth than keeping the current tax rate or increasing taxes.
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Have you heard of Ike? What was the rate when he was in office? Was the budget balanced?
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

ScoobyDoo said:
Nice dodge. :rolleyes:
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Thats the reason the budet was balanced. He cut spending as a percentage of GDP. He didn't raise more revenue. If his tax rates were so great why didn't we have balanced budgets anytime after Ike?

The problem with raising taxes is that is slows economic growth and leads to a lower standard of living.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

MinnFan said:
Thats the reason the budet was balanced. He cut spending as a percentage of GDP. He didn't raise more revenue. If his tax rates were so great why didn't we have balanced budgets anytime after Ike?

The problem with raising taxes is that is slows economic growth and leads to a lower standard of living.
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Try again.

http://www.democracyprevails.org/democracyprevails/tax-rate-rich-under-eisenhower.aspx

EDIT: http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php
 
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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

MinnFan said:
Have you heard of the Laffer Curve?

If you really want to cut the deficit you are way better off cutting spending and reducing taxes to encourage growth than keeping the current tax rate or increasing taxes.
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2 things you're ignoring:

1) The laffer curve is talking about government revenue, not economic growth. It says that beyond a certain optimal point 'x', higher tax rates = decreased tax revenue because the higher rate is more than offset by less amount of taxable income. You're ignoring the part of the curve where, for tax rates less than 'x', higher rates = higher revenue. You can argue about what you think 'x' is, but my somewhat educated estimate is that we're no where near that point.

2) The laffer curve is another thing that's great to consider under optimal conditions, but in reality we're far from optimal conditions. We've already got 14 Trillion and growing in national debt. Our interest payments alone are going to be on the order of $300 billion/year. Our national economy will be hindered far more by that long term structural debt than any short term tax hit that will be necessary to bring the structural debt under control.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

ScoobyDoo said:
And now it appears Scott Brown the Repubs little darling is a RINO cause he voted for Obama's jobs (porky pig) bill.
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Not sure if you are a voting resident of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, but yes, Coakley was more than eager to mention that Scott Brown voted in favor in her TV spots. It is true, the voters knew it, and the voters still replaced a Kennedy with a republican, RINO, righty, warmonger, babykiller, etc. if that makes you happy. Furthermore, Brown never denied his voting record (psst... what was Obama's voting record as a senator?).

However, like most Scooby interactions, you fail to addess the issue at hand... which for the record I shall repeat with emphasis on the subject in bold:

"But the Dems have NOT taken advantage of the chinks in the republican armour. In fact, even with a "super majority" Obama, the house, and the sentate failed to enact anything except waste a clouple of reams of paper for this bill... you know, the bill that no one read because it was such a crisis it had to be rushed through? The same bill that the authors really did not know what it contained and dodged public questioning of. The very same bill that even the Dems could agree upon?

The Dems squandered a once in a lifetime opportunity."
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

eaglehockeyrules said:
Not sure if you are a voting resident of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, but yes, Coakley was more than eager to mention that Scott Brown voted in favor in her TV spots. It is true, the voters knew it, and the voters still replaced a Kennedy with a republican, RINO, righty, warmonger, babykiller, etc. if that makes you happy. Furthermore, Brown never denied his voting record (psst... what was Obama's voting record as a senator?).

However, like most Scooby interactions, you fail to addess the issue at hand... which for the record I shall repeat with emphasis on the subject in bold:

"But the Dems have NOT taken advantage of the chinks in the republican armour. In fact, even with a "super majority" Obama, the house, and the sentate failed to enact anything except waste a clouple of reams of paper for this bill... you know, the bill that no one read because it was such a crisis it had to be rushed through? The same bill that the authors really did not know what it contained and dodged public questioning of. The very same bill that even the Dems could agree upon?

The Dems squandered a once in a lifetime opportunity."
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The leader of the party is Obama. He's at fault for why nothing is getting done. Frankly, I'm not surprised. Why are you?

As for Brown, the comedy is how when he gets to office he abandons the very people that got him elected. Michelle Malkin is livid.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

I am surprised because Obama is not the omniscient character that he was made out to be by everyone who was against Bush/McCain; Obama cannot influence a majority of his own party.

ScoobyDoo said:
As for [Obama], the comedy is how when he gets to office he abandons the very people that got him elected. [SEIU] is livid.
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LOL... sort of like Obama did?

Obama: Too leftist for main stream American. Too centrist for Pelosi. No special interests = a broken campaign promise. Transparency = a broken campaign promise. Public discussion for Health Care = a broken campaign promise. All things he campaigned on, he lied; my how quickly the sheep forget! Seems I know more about what Obama campaigned on than the average Democrat... oh, except he is not G W Bush! LOL.

Obama is Washington politics as usual, which ironically, is another campaign promise broken.
 
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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Yeah, he gets that, he isnt defending Obama in fact he is BLAMING HIM, change your diaper already. What does what Obama has failed at have to do with Brown being another two faced GOPer?
 
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Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

ScoobyDoo said:
The leader of the party is Obama. He's at fault for why nothing is getting done. Frankly, I'm not surprised. Why are you?
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The Economist makes that very same argument in its current edition. They point to the healthcare debacle and his failure to incorporate moderate GOP and Dem MOC into his original push, as well as the lack of transparency. However, they also point out that Congress is actually doing a number of things, but the bigger issues that have stalled such as healthcare, financial services reform, etc. have seized the popular imagination.
 
Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

SPIN CONTROL said:
He abandoned Massachusetts independents? :confused:
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Those independents are sick of the size of government. That's what we heard over and over again between him trying to pimp his girls.

What does the government have to do with job growth? I've heard from small government types for years.........nothing.

So, why is he voting for a left wing jobs bill?
 
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