Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Exactly. It's hard/impossible for private companies to build nuke plants, because of the local, state, and federal bureaucracy. And special interest groups who know how to stall the local, state, and federal approvals processes.

However, if the Feds came in and mandated that the plants be built, all that gets swept away. Realistically, it's probably 5 years to build a plant even without unnecessary red tape, so it's not overnight, but still within the timeframe to make a difference.

Politically what's interesting is what would happen if the government did that. Certainly energy policy is as important to national security as anything else, but as soon as the government started mandating the types of plants that are built you'd have the right screaming about screwing with the private sector. Which of course is folly because both parties spend their time doing nothing else but picking winners and losers, but I digress.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

MinnFan,

Kindly post the CBO analysis of how much this reduces the deficit and how many more people it covers.

Perhaps if it hadn't been killed in committee we would have such an analysis.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Politically what's interesting is what would happen if the government did that. Certainly energy policy is as important to national security as anything else, but as soon as the government started mandating the types of plants that are built you'd have the right screaming about screwing with the private sector. Which of course is folly because both parties spend their time doing nothing else but picking winners and losers, but I digress.

That's why you have the government auction them off at the end - I don't mind the gubmint kick starting the process to get over the inertia, but I don't really want them running the plants long-term. Any private sector whiner types are welcome to go out and raise the capital to buy a nice, newly built plant. If they don't (and "lose" because of it) then it's their fault.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

That's why you have the government auction them off at the end - I don't mind the gubmint kick starting the process to get over the inertia, but I don't really want them running the plants long-term. Any private sector whiner types are welcome to go out and raise the capital to buy a nice, newly built plant. If they don't (and "lose" because of it) then it's their fault.

I like it.

However, I doubt any of this gets past the coal lobby or the storage problem (a mountain in Nevada won't even do it with the NIMBY folks). A lot of people in energy like things exactly the way they are too much for it to change.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Perhaps if it hadn't been killed in committee we would have such an analysis.

Ummm....that makes no sense. The GOP is perfectly able to send a proposal to the CBO for analysis, much like they did with their other health care bill, which also didn't make it out of committee, but was found to cover 30M less people, and save 1.3T less dollars, than the Dem plan.

So, given that they could have sent this bill to the CBO, why didn't they????

Lynah,

That sounds great if you think everybody will act logically. Most likely people will whine about govt intervention AND also not bother to raise private capital themselves.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

The Coal Lobby is pretty ****ed good...I mean they have convinced people "Clean Coal" not only exists but is viable NOW. So what if it is all just hypothesis for the most part and that the methods they say they will use have never truly been tested and are nowhere near ready to be implemented...just say CLEAN COAL and everyone is ready to go!

Sheep, they are all sheep!

To augment a quote from King Edward, "The problem with politics is, it is is full of politicians!"

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

The Coal Lobby is pretty ****ed good...I mean they have convinced people "Clean Coal" not only exists but is viable NOW. So what if it is all just hypothesis for the most part and that the methods they say they will use have never truly been tested and are nowhere near ready to be implemented...just say CLEAN COAL and everyone is ready to go!

Sheep, they are all sheep!

To augment a quote from King Edward, "The problem with politics is, it is is full of politicians!"

Even Obama (a Harvard grad) can't keep himself from saying it. Bush said it. Hell, I bet even Clinton said it (Rhodes scholar).

Great article on the myth here.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Rover,

Since you worship at the shrine of the CBO, why haven't you jumped down Obama's throat on drastically cutting spending as they said was necessary?

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Rover,

Since you worship at the shrine of the CBO, why haven't you jumped down Obama's throat on drastically cutting spending as they said was necessary?

Whoa there chief. I'm seeing a bait and switch going on here. You posted a GOP proposal. I asked you to give an independent analysis of who it covers and how much it saves. You said they couldn't do that because it didn't get out of committee. I said that's a lie, because the other GOP proposal didn't get out of committee but got submitted for analysis. So I'll say again, why haven't they sent the brilliant proposal you linked in for independent study? Its okay to answer the question.

While you're working on that, I'll tackle this tangent. Obama proposed to cut 1.3T from the budget according to the CBO if the health care proposal goes through. He's got another 250Bn lined up for freezing spending on certain items, and then whatever letting Bush's tax cuts for campaign contributors expire. Add in savings from getting out of Iraq and we're around 2T in deficit reduction. Not all of what we need, but far, far greater than anything the GOP has coalesced around (as in, not some Ron Paul proposal with no GOP sponsers that has us selling the Fed to China or some other idiocy).

 

[unofan]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

The Coal Lobby is pretty ****ed good...I mean they have convinced people "Clean Coal" not only exists but is viable NOW. So what if it is all just hypothesis for the most part and that the methods they say they will use have never truly been tested and are nowhere near ready to be implemented...just say CLEAN COAL and everyone is ready to go!

Sheep, they are all sheep!

To augment a quote from King Edward, "The problem with politics is, it is is full of politicians!"

Part of it is we're the Middle East of coal. We've got more freaking coal than we know what to do with. The environmental factors suck, but we're completely self-sufficient in this particular fossil fuel and will be long past the foreseeable future.

Hence, it only makes sense to want it to work.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Whoa there chief. I'm seeing a bait and switch going on here. You posted a GOP proposal. I asked you to give an independent analysis of who it covers and how much it saves. You said they couldn't do that because it didn't get out of committee. I said that's a lie, because the other GOP proposal didn't get out of committee but got submitted for analysis. So I'll say again, why haven't they sent the brilliant proposal you linked in for independent study? Its okay to answer the question.

Speaking of tangents. You lamented the GOP for never proposing anything so I simply demonstrated that they have. In fact, if you look above you admit it yourself so I'm not sure why you keep saying they never try to add anything.

While you're working on that, I'll tackle this tangent. Obama proposed to cut 1.3T from the budget according to the CBO if the health care proposal goes through. He's got another 250Bn lined up for freezing spending on certain items, and then whatever letting Bush's tax cuts for campaign contributors expire. Add in savings from getting out of Iraq and we're around 2T in deficit reduction. Not all of what we need, but far, far greater than anything the GOP has coalesced around (as in, not some Ron Paul proposal with no GOP sponsers that has us selling the Fed to China or some other idiocy).

I'll believe those saving when I see it, but lets do some simple math.

Obama had a $1.4T defecit last year. Projected for $1.35 this year. Never projected to be less than $600B for the next 10 years. Thats a best case senario of $7.5T in additional debt. The realistic number I've seen is $10T. Subtract your $2T and we're still at $8T.

Perhaps he should try a little harder to do some real cost cutting.

p.s. Please learn economics so one of these days so you'll understand why the healthcare plan would never, ever reduce the defecit and would only make it worse.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Speaking of tangents. You lamented the GOP for never proposing anything so I simply demonstrated that they have. In fact, if you look above you admit it yourself so I'm not sure why you keep saying they never try to add anything.



I'll believe those saving when I see it, but lets do some simple math.

Obama had a $1.4T defecit last year. Projected for $1.35 this year. Never projected to be less than $600B for the next 10 years. Thats a best case senario of $7.5T in additional debt. Subtract your $2T and we're still at $5.5T.

Perhaps he should try a little harder to do some real cost cutting.

p.s. Please learn economics so one of these days so you'll understand why the healthcare plan would never, ever reduce the defecit and would only make it worse.

While I realize deep thinking isn't your thing, proposals that have no actual #'s to back them up are useless. Its like me saying the cure for the deficit is taking all dumb, whiny, right wing Minny fans and selling them to private companies for medical research. Sounds good, but where is the independent analysis showing how much $$$ will be saved by doing so? Until that's known, you really can't take either your GOP proposal or my dumb whiny Minny Fan proposal at face value.

To your other point, kindly show me the GOP proposals for cutting the deficit, and how much so they would do it by. Then tell me where these proposals were when they had total control of the govt for almost all of the time from Jan 2001-Jan 2007.

 

[rufus]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Along those lines...

Ryan re-introducing GOP healthcare bill

Details of health care plan along with medicare, social security and taxes

Is this the bill that costs $800 billion, and doesn't insure any more people?

 

[MinnFan]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

To your other point, kindly show me the GOP proposals for cutting the deficit, and how much so they would do it by. Then tell me where these proposals were when they had total control of the govt for almost all of the time from Jan 2001-Jan 2007.

How about you show me the Dem plan that actually reduces the defecit. Not one that cuts in one place, but they spend more than that somewhere else. They kind of are the the ones in power.

You aren't going to get any argument from me that the GOP spent too much when they were in power. They put some sticks on the fire, but the Dems are using explosives. Thats the reason their poll numbers haven't risen with the drop in the Dems numbers. Its the reason why on a gereric ballot the Tea Party beats both the Dems and the GOP.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Well the problem though is doesnt it take forever to build a plant? I mean it isnt like they could get approved tomorrow and then in 2 years have a fully functional plant could they? I ask seriously because I have no idea.

I've heard their aren't enough welders with the skill it takes to build a new plant in the US. People don't go into the trades anymore.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Finally was the GOP response a complete waste of time or was it just me? The whole thing could have been summed up in one sentence: "We disagree with everything said tonight and will work against all of President Obama's agenda and will not work with the Democrats even on things that we might normally be OK with even if it is a detriment to the American People! "

Good, pray for gridlock, its our only hope

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

I've heard their aren't enough welders with the skill it takes to build a new plant in the US. People don't go into the trades anymore.

That's true. Minnesota has a huge shortage of welders. No one wants that job anymore.

 

[walrus]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

That's true. Minnesota has a huge shortage of welders. No one wants that job anymore.

I can weld but I doubt you'd want to live near the plant after I was done Its a real skill to do the kind of welding it takes for a Nuke plant to be safe

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

Is this the bill that costs $800 billion, and doesn't insure any more people?

Don't wait for a response. MinnFan ran away from this one faster than sponsors of that Tea Bagger convention that's supposed to be happening next week.

Minny I showed you the Dem plan. See if you can remember what the CBO said would cut the deficit by 1.3T over the next two decades....

 

[SteveP]

Re: Obama 9 -- Its Been a Whole Year Now

94-year old retired Navy Master Chief Harold Estes hits O with a full broadside.

I am amazed, angry and determined not to see my country die before I do, but you seem hell bent not to grant me that wish.

I can't figure out what country you are the president of.

Shape up and start acting like an American. If you don't, I'll do what I can to see you get shipped out of that fancy rental on Pennsylvania Avenue. You were elected to lead not to bow, apologize and kiss the hands of murderers and corrupt leaders who still treat their people like slaves.