Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

[Foxton]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Your second line is a philosophical one that men and women at divinity schools around the world struggle with; I believe both can and do exist together very nicely. I run a research lab, and I am a practicing Episcopalian; both work seemingly well in my successful work and religious life. Your grand question cannot be answered here, by me or you, but you can always bring up Creationism/Darwinism and the Kangaroo Courts of Kentucky and Tennessee, ala 1927 CE (I use CE common era as not to offend the Godless) which I am sure is in your bag of tricks.

I won't even deal with the rest of your drivel. But this deserves something.

Science and god do not exist together. The concept of a god by it's very nature induces laziness. Get to a question that's too hard, god did it. Never even ask a question, you already know the answer, god did it.

Here's a nice half hour long video that lists instances of this, and why it's been one of the great hindrances to progress, even when great men had the tools and ability to answer 'god did it' problems.
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[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Hey buddy, unless you're actually repenting for your sins you're going too.



A person without God but is good for goodness sake...don't you find that person to be a better human being than someone with God who is good for a REWARD in heaven?

Person A is truly selfless because is good for no reason besides to be good. He holds himself accountable. Why is Person B good, just because he believes in God? Come on.

I am not trying to convince anyone. But I will say, the Liberal left loves to pee on Christianity, not Muslims or Jews, but specifically Christianity.

Truth be told, I go to my church every Sunday, a member of Vestry, and a member of the Outreach Mission (i.e., I feed them homeless bums who are kept down by whitey). I love it, it makes me feel good and there is no harm. There are good lessons, morals and stories which are applicable to living life everyday.

I do not think I am better than Foxton for going to church on a regular basis; I know I am better than Foxton because I hold Traditional American Values.

As the Yalies say, "For God, and for Country."

 

[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

I won't even deal with the rest of your drivel. But this deserves something.

Science and god do not exist together. The concept of a god by it's very nature induces laziness. Get to a question that's too hard, god did it. Never even ask a question, you already know the answer, god did it.

Here's a nice half hour long video that lists instances of this, and why it's been one of the great hindrances to progress, even when great men had the tools and ability to answer 'god did it' problems.

Yawn, that is your opinion and you are bordering on divinity/philosophy debate that dates Aristotle, Archedimies, and Anaxamander (spelling on all). You found one crazy nut on a You Tube video to validate your point?! Furthermore, you are starting to sound like a Rachel Maddow sound bite. Angry, bitter, short, and gay.

So, was Obama a complete idiot for going to Church with the Rev. Jerimiah Wright? You know, Rev. Wright shaped Obama's life (according to Obama) and Oprah's too!

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

I am not trying to convince anyone. But I will say, the Liberal left loves to pee on Christianity, not Muslims or Jews, but specifically Christianity.

Oh, cut them some slack. They love to pee on the Jews as well.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Could you point out where the Constitution bans the separation of church and state? Is it next to the "good and welfare" clause?

1st Amendment, and yes that was the intent, if you don't believe me, go look Thomas Jefferson who coined the original phrase in this letter.

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html

Oh, cut them some slack. They love to pee on the Jews as well.

Oh I hates me some jews. Did you know they just celebrated a fictitious event of their god coming to Earth and slaughtering babies, kids, and adults, who's only crime was being the first born?

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Yawn, that is your opinion. Furthermore, you are sounding like a Rachel Maddow sound bite.

So, was Obama a complete idiot for going to Church with the Rev. Jerimiah Wright? You know, Rev. Wright shaped Obama's life (according to Obama) and Oprah's too!

Just because he hates the religious right doesn't mean he doesn't also hate Obama. They're not mutually exclusive opinions. That's a big thing from both sides. Red Cloud likes to believe people that don't agree with him must agree with the opposition. Moderates can hate BOTH sides.

 

[NMU8405]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

I'll chime in. I dont believe in religion. Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc...Its all a tool of man used to take advantage and strike fear in people. I mean, this is a religion that burned woman because they were "witches" (this fact can be debated as to what defines a witch, or something close to it, but to burn someone alive for it. Its like labeling someone as a vampire and burning them alive).

As for the overall God, well Im still out on that one. Could there be? Maybe...Maybe not. Of course, science can answer all of these questions by the birth/death of stars over billions of years creating our race/conditions. But did God create the Big Bang, or a theory that involves the birth of the Universe, I dont think any of us are in position to give a definate answer.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

You know, didn't the same thing happen with Bush vs Gore? Gore was/is unlikable and a fuddy duddy, Bush was cool, a man's man. Who liked Doritos and football and hanging on the couch.

A lot of people my age voted for Bush the first time around because he was the cool one.

But ignore that.

You almost sound like you believe that. Wow.

Too bad the 18-29 vote split right down the middle in 2000. Whoops. Not to mention that it was 9 percent of the total vote, pretty low.

Sorry.

 

[eaglehockeyrules]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Ehh, I wish everyone a Happy Easter, Happy Passover and thoughtful Seder. Enjoy the good weather lads!

E-

 

[NMU8405]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Truth be told, I go to my church every Sunday, a member of Vestry, and a member of the Outreach Mission (i.e., I feed them homeless bums who are kept down by whitey). I love it, it makes me feel good and there is no harm. There are good lessons, morals and stories which are applicable to living life everyday.

You should do those things because it makes the world, mankind, society better, and you are furthering the most important value that anyone has (even the homeless), life.

Don't do it because it makes you warm and fuzzy inside. But, if thats what it takes...dont change your ways.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

1st Amendment, and yes that was the intent, if you don't believe me, go look Thomas Jefferson who coined the original phrase in this letter.

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html

The Amendment prohibits the establishment of a religion, or the prohibition of one. This is unequivocal. However, I feel that this has been vastly overstretched to outlaw some things far outside the scope of the amendment. For example, a student praying in a public school.

As for the founders intent, they were a diverse group of folks. We could go back and forth all day on this. Let's look at some early state Constitutions, shall we?
Pennsylvania

We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly
invoking His guidance...

Massachusetts

We...the people of Massachusetts,
acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of
the Universe...in the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly
imploring His direction ...

I assure you, I can find 48 more examples.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Those people believed in a God that allowed them to enslave others. You really want to argue it's the same God?

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

I'll chime in. I dont believe in religion. Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc...Its all a tool of man used to take advantage and strike fear in people. I mean, this is a religion that burned woman because they were "witches" (this fact can be debated as to what defines a witch, or something close to it, but to burn someone alive for it. Its like labeling someone as a vampire and burning them alive).

Duh. If she weighs the same as a duck, she's a witch.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Could you point out where the Constitution bans the separation of church and state? Is it next to the "good and welfare" clause?

It doesnt BAN the separation of Church and State, it flat out separates them...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So let me see, the First amendment disavows any chance of a national religion (meaning eaglehockeyrules can shut up with the Christ rhetoric) and they cant ban anyone from practicing any religion they want. If you want to be anal about it, the words dont exist but dont be obtuse and pretend that isnt what the First Amendment is saying.

Of course there is also the "Free Exercise Clause" and the "Establishment Clause" but I am sure you know those

BTW, it was first discussed in the US by John Locke...Thomas Jefferson spoke in favor of the separation as did James Madison. Lets not forget the Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom.

Oh and for those that think America is a Christian Nation in the Treaty of Tripoli in 1797 Article 11 stated:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion

Now you might think that means very little, except for Article VI Section 2 of the US Constitution states:

This constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, any thing in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.

So that means Christianity is NOT in any way the religion of this nation despite what some of you might say. In fact to even suggest it means you are talking in direct violation of the US Constitution...why do you hate America?

A lot of extra info there, but the point is, the United States Government nor any government in this country has no power when it comes to religion except the power not to do anything. They have no say and are allowed none...in fact they are prohibited completely. Sounds like a separation to me but what do I know

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

As for the overall God, well Im still out on that one. Could there be? Maybe...Maybe not. Of course, science can answer all of these questions by the birth/death of stars over billions of years creating our race/conditions. But did God create the Big Bang, or a theory that involves the birth of the Universe, I dont think any of us are in position to give a definate answer.

Well if you can find one provable example of a supernatural event which would be far less impressive than creating the singularity, you'll win 1 million dollars, but further you'll give a reason that supernatural things even exist.

It's still just a god of the gaps. Find a gap, insert god to fill it. Hopefully it's not a betrothed virgin.

The Amendment prohibits the establishment of a religion, or the prohibition of one. This is unequivocal. However, I feel that this has been vastly overstretched to outlaw some things far outside the scope of the amendment. For example, a student praying in a public school.

Students can pray in school all they want, unless it disrupts school. But the school cannot lead prayer. There's an obvious and easy to see difference there.

If anything it's underused due to the xtian majority. Such as a local school near me has been observing lent by removing meat from their school lunch on fridays. This is forcing students to observe a religious holiday (all students have school provided lunch). This isn't a private school, it's a public school that is funded by local tax money. Imagine the uproar if they were forcing students to observe ramadan.

And did you just say there were 50 states at the time of America's creation? Cause there are a total of 55 founded fathers, and only like 38 ever showed up at one point, and even further there are a handful who really dominated what went on.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

The Amendment prohibits the establishment of a religion, or the prohibition of one. This is unequivocal. However, I feel that this has been vastly overstretched to outlaw some things far outside the scope of the amendment. For example, a student praying in a public school.

I agree, it is stretched too far in cases like that. If a students chooses to pray in school they should be allowed to BECAUSE of the First Amendment...that said they should not be ASKED TO in a public school for the same reason. It is a personal decision, and if I want to I should be allowed but if I dont want to it is none of their ****ed business. The second a school asks students to pray it is overstepping its bounds, assuming it isnt a religious school of course which is completely different.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

I agree, it is stretched too far in cases like that. If a students chooses to pray in school they should be allowed to BECAUSE of the First Amendment...that said they should not be ASKED TO in a public school for the same reason. It is a personal decision, and if I want to I should be allowed but if I dont want to it is none of their ****ed business. The second a school asks students to pray it is overstepping its bounds, assuming it isnt a religious school of course which is completely different.

This is what I'm getting at. I have no problem whatsoever with no school led prayer, I agree that's what the founders intended, fine.
What I do have a problem with is stories like the one of the 6 year old girl thanking God for her food, quietly to herself, and a teacher rushing in and telling her to be quiet. Then folks race to defend the teacher using the "separation of church and state". How in the heck does her saying a short prayer count as the establishment of a state religion?



As for the school lunch thing, that sounds like a tricky one, and it's a little bizarre to be honest. Does the school have a large Catholic population? Because as far as I know, other Christian denominations are allowed to eat meat on Fridays (otherwise I'm in a heap of trouble).
Anyways though, I guess I don't see the harm. So the kids eat fish on Friday.
This doesn't mean the non religious children are forced to starve.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

This is what I'm getting at. I have no problem whatsoever with no school led prayer, I agree that's what the founders intended, fine.
What I do have a problem with is stories like the one of the 6 year old girl thanking God for her food, quietly to herself, and a teacher rushing in and telling her to be quiet. Then folks race to defend the teacher using the "separation of church and state". How in the heck does her saying a short prayer count as the establishment of a state religion?



As for the school lunch thing, that sounds like a tricky one, and it's a little bizarre to be honest. Does the school have a large Catholic population? Because as far as I know, other Christian denominations are allowed to eat meat on Fridays (otherwise I'm in a heap of trouble).
Anyways though, I guess I don't see the harm. So the kids eat fish on Friday.
This doesn't mean the non religious children are forced to starve.

Well speaking as a future teacher, and as someone that knows teachers I can say it is in their own best interest to error on the side of caution on stuff like this. This teacher went overboard by about 10 miles and I wont defend her but if anyone had complained or even looked like it made them uncomfortable (which at that age none of them would have) then the teacher's actions would be justified IMHO. The problem is in most of these cases no one cares, so just leave it alone.

It is a very fine line sometimes, and it isnt just religion it is things like the Pledge of Allegiance too. I think it is archaic to do the pledge myself and our district stopped doing it after elementary school but I know in some places it is a big deal to do it until a much later age. I think if you are going to recite it students should be allowed to not stand, not sing or not say "Under God" if they so choose. Since that tends to tick other people off though, it is probably in the best interest to just not do it IMHO.

The lunch deal is a stupid one on both sides if you ask me. The school should offer a second choice but on the other hand students can just bring a lunch...weird decision by the school.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

I think if you are going to recite it students should be allowed to not stand, not sing or not say "Under God" if they so choose. Since that tends to tick other people off though, it is probably in the best interest to just not do it IMHO.

Or they could go back to the original pledge.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Sure, but once again if a student doesn't want to say that they should not be forced to, or guilted into it.