Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

[Hobbit]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

My friend who had a HSA had the same thing...she needed to spend it by a certain date.

She tried explaining how the whole thing worked and I went cross-eyed.

Sure you are not confusing an HSA (Health Savings Account) with a FSA (Flex spending account)? FSA are use it or loss it, but HSA's will carry over indefinitely.

I would like to see an option to have HESA (Health and Education Savings Account)...where you can put in pre-tax money, have it grow over time and allow the funds to be used for either Health or Education costs.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

The vote is 219 for, 212 against.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

The brownshirts really showed their colors today, so to speak, but considering what we've seen from the Tea Baggers, it's hardly a surprise. Elections have consequences, regardless of what the loons have apparently made you think, and the 29%ers are done. The right will rise again, but those creeps won't lead them thank god.

Please explain, Kepler.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Fighter planes cost more during 2 wars and while the dollar is tanking? Who'd have thunk it?

What do wars or the dollar have to do with that? Most of the content is from the US, so the dollar doesn't matter. I'm not sure what your non-sequitur about war is supposed to mean - you think Lockheed just gets to raise their prices because we're at war? Um, no. The cost has gone up because the govt has no idea how to run a program, period. The most successful military programs are usually the black ones, which are out of the purview of government program managers and auditors...

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Well, they actually passed something, and it only took a year despite huge majorities in both chambers. Amazing that the will of the people sometimes gets done.

So, short term losses (which were going to happen anyway) and long term gains when the world fails to end on the chicken littles' clocks. And the bill that passes is hated by the far right and by the far left, so that's a fair approximation of sanity.

 

[Wol4ine]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Al Sharpton just said that the American people voted overwhelmingly for socialism when they elected Obama. For the first time, I have to agree with the reverend.

This is a vote for tyranny and for socialism.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

so we become 3-world. Cuba-care. great. Amnesty, cap&trade, are next. with this bill stalinists have achieved their wet dream and more considering they control student loans now too.

50% of the economy under government control (including some banks, 2 car companies,etc)

under what definition is this NOT socialism? Under what definition is this democracy when we are told what to eat, mandated health insurance under penalty of jail, and don't forget that if you get cancer you're treatment will depend on whether it's possible that the $ spent by the government might save you. so if you have 6 months and a treament could lengthen that potentially to 18, forget it you're cooked. just ask the UK, Canada, etc.

Obama has never made minced words about his philosophy. Never. He's wanted to radically change this country from when he was in college or even earlier.

This is a win for the late-Saul Alinsky and proves that he was very shrewd in how to achieve these goals against the american people's will.

I'm not sure honestly where to look for that beacon of freedom. Where?

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

so we become 3-world. Cuba-care. great. Amnesty, cap&trade, are next. with this bill stalinists have achieved their wet dream and more considering they control student loans now too.

50% of the economy under government control (including some banks, 2 car companies,etc)

under what definition is this NOT socialism? Under what definition is this democracy when we are told what to eat, mandated health insurance under penalty of jail, and don't forget that if you get cancer you're treatment will depend on whether it's possible that the $ spent by the government might save you. so if you have 6 months and a treament could lengthen that potentially to 18, forget it you're cooked. just ask the UK, Canada, etc.

Obama has never made minced words about his philosophy. Never. He's wanted to radically change this country from when he was in college or even earlier.

This is a win for the late-Saul Alinsky and proves that he was very shrewd in how to achieve these goals against the american people's will.

I'm not sure honestly where to look for that beacon of freedom. Where?

China.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

China.

I'd laugh if this weren't a difference between the constitution and our representative republic vs. shredding the constitution and starting anew as a stalinist tyranny.

the polls show amply that these congresspeople just voted against the will of their constituents.

I hope they pay big this fall.

 

[Patman]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Well, I think the rest of the week as the details of the bill are detailed the rest of the rails will come off... but under no uncertain terms this will be anything other than a defeat for the American people. Even once we find out what is in this many changes will only serve to increase the costs which nobody want... there will be other liberal/socialist value-system type nuggets in there which will be ugly. There has been rumors that this will be the end of part-time employment which will increase unemployment and a host of other things which could hinder the market.

Also, I don't recall if this whole "student loans" deal is also in this bill. Its all ugly to be honest. The sausage will be detailed.

To put it bluntly, since this thing (and 'thing' is the best way to put it) is still very poorly understood the effects are going to be strange and wholly negative. Lets not misunderstand this. This is a re-ordering of American society and as such it is a re-ordering of American society. It will be uncertain, it will lead to shifts of behavior and costs. None of this will be quite understood in the near term. It will be agape with inefficiencies. None of these above properties shouldn't already be understood by most around here.

----

I think other things that come after may be moot. It depends on how fast the reality of this situation gets whipped around. The question then becomes "how divorced is the legislature from the reality on the ground"... for instance, neither amnesty nor cap&trade should survive to passage within the current state of our economy. Amnesty will shatter any spurious claims of "savings" in the health care bill... cap and trade... well... shoot... Its all taxes based on dreams of what costs might be under situations which are rather unrealistic based on technologies that can and will be stolen by others.

I'd like to think that the current senate composition will prevent anything further... but there is a will with the dems to reach what they believe to be is the ultimate truth and do so now that they have the electoral means. The question then becomes "what will they justify to themselves without having the Republicans walk out of the legislature" and "how fast will the damage from health-care be actuated"... if the damage spins out in the next 2 months then the Dems are all over for this session because I can't imagine they have the will to strike out that far... but you never know.

Remember, that the dems have spent the last 8 months not detailing why their bill works but rather harped on the morality of it all. So, we should see some shock come. Mostly its a matter of time. After all, if this were an easily defensible position they would be out on this every day. Its not, though and they haven't. Its been a position defended by attacking the hearts of people and their sense of compassion. If this were such an intellectual triumph then they would have all the ammo they need as they could go out and just explain it. Whine about "republican noise machine" and all that other crap... because that's just what it would be... crap. The alternative is that you assume your ideas by personal fiat... and frankly, that's a scary state for a nation to be in.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Which Attorney General will get to court first? My money would be on Virginia's as he has the East Coast Time Zone advantage.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Which Attorney General will get to court first? My money would be on Virginia's as he has the East Coast Time Zone advantage.

if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on texas.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

The reactions to this bill on both sides are proof that this country is dying faster than anyone could possibly imagine.

edit: and it would be foolhardy for any AG to waste time going to court over this...no way the SC will overturn this "reform" bill.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

the effects are going to be strange and wholly negative.

You say you don't know what's in the bill...but you say the outcome will be completely negative. Amazing.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

The reactions to this bill on both sides are proof that this country is dying faster than anyone could possibly imagine.

edit: and it would be foolhardy for any AG to waste time going to court over this...no way the SC will overturn this "reform" bill.

Eh, maybe I'm biased, but I think with the recent decisions of the court, there's at least a slim chance the court will take a look at it on commerce clause grounds.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

You say you don't know what's in the bill...but you say the outcome will be completely negative. Amazing.

Well, we've passed it, so maybe now Nancy can tell us what is in it.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

The reactions to this bill on both sides are proof that this country is dying faster than anyone could possibly imagine.

edit: and it would be foolhardy for any AG to waste time going to court over this...no way the SC will overturn this "reform" bill.

Like I said before: Politics has turned into a race on who can wreck the country faster.

I disagree though on the AG part. If that's the way they want to go, fine. Let them. This bill strikes me like a hand recount kind of thing. Dozens of lawsuits will pop up and some will be upheld and some will be overruled.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Eh, maybe I'm biased, but I think with the recent decisions of the court, there's at least a slim chance the court will take a look at it on commerce clause grounds.

No way...I am not saying either way whether I agree with it, but I dont see the SC overruling this bill, especially because it hasn't changed anything.

I am sorry, but as someone who has had to study socialism in one form or another every year since about the 8th grade I dont see how this is socialism. I know the Right thinks they can get votes by marking anything they dont like as such and that is fine, but it isn't. I don't care how many slippery slopes you go down, it just isn't. (we wont even get into the idiots like Bachman who claim this will lead to us paying to kill babies and old people...)

Likewise, this bill isnt reform either so the left should stop talking about it as such. As I said earlier, this bill makes it possible for me to buy insurance...FROM AN INSURANCE COMPANY! And guess what, I could do that now and get subsidized so yippie kay aye you changed zero. To reform something it requires widespread change, sorry not seeing it.

I hope people bought stock in United Health Group and its co-conspirators because if so this time 4 years from now you will be able to retire thanks to this "reform".

 

[K7776S2001]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

Well, they actually passed something, and it only took a year despite huge majorities in both chambers. Amazing that the will of the people sometimes gets done.

So, short term losses (which were going to happen anyway) and long term gains when the world fails to end on the chicken littles' clocks. And the bill that passes is hated by the far right and by the far left, so that's a fair approximation of sanity.

I'll offer you something to think about..... This site is full of a bunch of young college aged males. It's ironic anyone of them would support this bill. They will see significant increases in their health insurance premiums. Young males have some of the cheapest insurance right now but without question will pay plenty more as a result. In other words, they will pay more to subsidize the insurance of the older and less healthy individuals and women who utilize healthcare more often and have paid more until the passage of this bill which prohibits that. This is the worst thing for you folks especially when you factor in long term effects this will have on the federal budget with the addition of yet another massive entitlement program. Everyone will pay greater amounts of their income in taxes in future years to pay for this.

I know if I was in the group I'd be asking for older Americans to subsidize my car insurance like you will now be doing for health insurance for them. Seems only fair doesn't it?

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama 10: Rahm it through.....even in the shower.

The Economist (not exactly a conservative rag) lays out the legal challenges to the bill here. http://www.economist.com/world/united-states/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15721539

The third point may be the strongest.

The last and strongest argument concerns the government’s power to require the purchase of health insurance under the commerce clause. The non-partisan Congressional Research Service found this the most challenging constitutional question related to health-care reform, as the commerce clause, the clause in the constitution that allows the federal government to regulate trade between the states, has never before been used to require that citizens buy a good or service.