Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

I certainly don't think that is what anyone expected from Middlebury.

(1.) Clearly the quality of the Middlebury Team is not what it has been in the past but how about some kudos to Chis Czanota for shutting them down completely with some very nice saves. Now with four wins and three shutouts behind him for the season including this solid victory over the villainous Panthers--I feel so much better about our goalie situation. Not to detract from Parker Carroll but it is always nice to have two seasoned goalies ready go rather than one. Has to have done wonders for his confidence.

(2.) To add more back and forth to the Kyle Thomas skills discussion--I have watched last night's first goal replay about five times and the angle of Kyle's shot had to have been made against a goal mouth that was at most no larger than 10 to 15%. But more important, it was not unlike that empty net goal he made against Morrisville in early January. I don't see many folks making that shot in the first place from the right hand side of the goal with so little a target to shoot at as he did against Morrisville and even fewer making the same shot albeit with a weaker but less manageable backhand shot from the left side against Middlebury. This kid has wonderful skills to match his speed.

(3.) On another thread (the usual: Fire Beaney chatter) there was this remark as part of a much longer diatribe that said about Beaney, "Between his lack of recruiting, his inability to come up with different game plans outside the one he has, the Federal lawsuit he is facing (and as a result of his actions, the College as well), and last but not least the abomination of a team he brings to the rink each night it's time for a change."

Now there is one angry fan (and I am not sure I agree, given the state of unemployment these days) but can someone tell me what is this Federal lawsuit that Beaney is facing is all about? And if convicted by the Feds will NU Cadet MPs be allowed to escort him to Leavenworth so he can coach in the new Federal Penal League Seriously. What's the deal?

(4.) Good luck next weekend to the Cadets. I look for UNE to play the Cadets tough after the way they went nose to nose with Castleton last weekend. There are no easy games from here on in. Now its all about home ice and/or seeding so we need to keep it one game at a time--so focus on USM on Friday as Mike McShane marches towards No. 600.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

I certainly don't think that is what anyone expected from Middlebury.

(1.) Clearly the quality of the Middlebury Team is not what it has been in the past ...

(3.) On another thread (the usual: Fire Beaney chatter) there was this remark as part of a much longer diatribe that said about Beaney, "Between his lack of recruiting, his inability to come up with different game plans outside the one he has, the Federal lawsuit he is facing (and as a result of his actions, the College as well), and last but not least the abomination of a team he brings to the rink each night it's time for a change."

Now there is one angry fan (and I am not sure I agree, given the state of unemployment these days) but can someone tell me what is this Federal lawsuit that Beaney is facing is all about? And if convicted by the Feds will NU Cadet MPs be allowed to escort him to Leavenworth so he can coach in the new Federal Penal League Seriously. What's the deal?

...

This article contains "Here is the answer (filed on June 3, 2011) in its entirety, interlaced with Knelman’s complaint (filed on May 11, 2011) on a paragraph-by-paragraph basis"

NOTE: "Answer" in this context is "To address or counter allegations, account for one’s actions, or otherwise put up a defense."

IMO, of note is paragraph 53:

KNELMAN COMPLAINT: During the next few days, numerous members of the hockey team told Coach Beaney that they strongly disagreed with his decision to dismiss Knelman from the team. In response, Coach Beaney initially responded that it was not his decision alone and only an unanimous decision by the team could change Knelman’s dismissed status. Later, as it became clear to Coach Beaney that Knelman may have unanimous support from his teammates, Coach Beaney switched his explanation, indicating to the team that it was his decision to dismiss Knelman. At a team meeting and in discussions with individual student-athletes, when explaining the reason for his dismissal of Knelman, Coach Beaney said “this was not an isolated incident.” Eventually, Coach Beaney told Knelman’s teammates that he may be right, he may be wrong but his door is closed and Knelman is indefinitely off the team. He told Knelman’s teammates, “you can either sit and dwell on it, or you can get over it,” “case closed.”

MIDDLEBURY/BEANEY ANSWER: Defendants deny that Coach Beaney informed Plaintiff that a unanimous decision by the team would reverse his dismissal. They admit that several players approached Coach Beaney to express their disagreement with Plaintiff’s dismissal, but deny that anything close to a unanimous number of players supported Plaintiff’s return to the team. Defendants further deny that Coach Beaney “switched his explanation” regarding whose decision it was to dismiss Plaintiff from the team but, upon information and belief, admit that the team was eventually informed by Coach Beaney that Plaintiffs dismissal was not based on an isolated incident. They admit on information and belief that Coach Beaney told the team that his decision to dismiss Plaintiff was not made in haste, and that it was ultimately his decision. Defendants are without knowledge or information sufficient to form a belief as to the truth of the rest and remainder of the allegations stated at Paragraph 53 of the Complaint, and therefore deny the same

Here is an article from the Middlebury College student newpaper (Middlebury Campus)

 

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

Thanks for all the background material on the Middlebury hockey/legal problems.

The article from the Middlebury student paper is superb as it seems to give both sides a fair and balanced hearing. Forget the legal implications for a moment--this really got blown out of proportion from the start by claiming this was a result of a player (Jak Knelman) not attending an entire bloody alumni hockey dinner. I always thought that Beany ran an extremely buttoned up program and never beat up on him (or the Panthers). But honestly-- this is a real "chicken s..t" reason for dumping a player. However since then, while I have no idea how good a hockey player Knelman is, he sure seems to be out skating Beany right into a Federal Court or a quiet settlement.

But here is the real long term implication. The moment any coach/team relationship moves from at best a model based soley on a coach's "enlightened despotism"--not unlike the pre-Revolution 1789 monarchy in France--to anything remotely resembling a player based democracy--a club is in trouble. Did I really read this right? Beany was actually going to reinstate this kid if the other players voted unanimously to reinstate him... and when they did (according to Knelman)... Beany then broke his word to the team and overruled them? That should play well in court when the team has to give sworn depositions.

Next thing you know the Panthers will be caucusing between periods to vote up or down on increasing the US debt ceiling or who should play on the first line. This story explains a lot about what is going on on the other side of the hill and wonder who is next to get dumped for a real or imagined poor attitude

 

[norm1909]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

Thanks for all the background material on the Middlebury hockey/legal problems.

The article from the Middlebury student paper is superb as it seems to give both sides a fair and balanced hearing. Forget the legal implications for a moment--this really got blown out of proportion from the start by claiming this was a result of a player (Jak Knelman) not attending an entire bloody alumni hockey dinner. I always thought that Beany ran an extremely buttoned up program and never beat up on him (or the Panthers). But honestly-- this is a real "chicken s..t" reason for dumping a player. However since then, while I have no idea how good a hockey player Knelman is, he sure seems to be out skating Beany right into a Federal Court or a quiet settlement.

But here is the real long term implication. The moment any coach/team relationship moves from at best a model based soley on a coach's "enlightened despotism"--not unlike the pre-Revolution 1789 monarchy in France--to anything remotely resembling a player based democracy--a club is in trouble. Did I really read this right? Beany was actually going to reinstate this kid if the other players voted unanimously to reinstate him... and when they did (according to Knelman)... Beany then broke his word to the team and overruled them? That should play well in court when the team has to give sworn depositions.

Next thing you know the Panthers will be caucusing between periods to vote up or down on increasing the US debt ceiling or who should play on the first line. This story explains a lot about what is going on on the other side of the hill and wonder who is next to get dumped for a real or imagined poor attitude

It does say "They admit that several players approached Coach Beaney to express their disagreement with Plaintiff’s dismissal, but deny that anything close to a unanimous number of players supported Plaintiff’s return to the team.", but perhaps that is likely only those willing to show up in person, it does sound IMO, that he likely had the backing of the entire team.

Note also, that this article states "Knelman’s family has more than enough resources to fully litigate this case."

 

[CROSBYNU63]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

Old Rook, while I am a huge fan of Kyle Thomas, the shot that he scored would have been stopped 99% of the time with a seasoned goalie. I have to say that I felt bad for the Midd tender. The young man, because of unfortunate circumstances, was thrown into the fire.

 

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

Cadet Cosby is of course correct as he surely had a better view of that first goal. More accurately I should have only observed that the video reveals that Kyle's shot was made about a half a step ahead of the red goal line (see video below) a point at which--given the angle of the shot from that spot-- allowed less then 10% of the goal mouth exposed for it to go in.

And I too felt for their goalie. Puck Voice made it clear from the outset of the broadcast that the Panther goalie was the new kid on the block. And actually, once he settled down he did a good job throughout most of the 2nd period and all of the third. Sorry for any misunderstanding. Old Rook


http://www.wcax.com/story/16594055/top-ranked-norwich-men-roll-past-panthers

 

[hawk]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

Cadet Cosby is of course correct as he surely had a better view of that first goal. More accurately I should have only observed that the video reveals that Kyle's shot was made about a half a step ahead of the red goal line (see video below) a point at which--given the angle of the shot from that spot-- allowed less then 10% of the goal mouth exposed for it to go in.

And I too felt for their goalie. Puck Voice made it clear from the outset of the broadcast that the Panther goalie was the new kid on the block. And actually, once he settled down he did a good job throughout most of the 2nd period and all of the third. Sorry for any misunderstanding. Old Rook


http://www.wcax.com/story/16594055/top-ranked-norwich-men-roll-past-panthers

In the game last night Norwich played more up tempo then Middlebury which created a number of scoring chances. Middlebury is having a down year in hockey which all team experience now and then, including Norwich. Give Beaney a couple of more years and I am sure they will compete for the NESCAC title.

On another topic it seems like the new NESCAC hockey league has created very little buzz this year. When you had the interlock you had great matchups like Williams/Amherst/Bowdoin/Trinity vs some of the better ECAC E teams like Norwich/Castleton/NEC/St. A's/Babson/Skidmore which generated a lot of interest in the hockey world and gave every team a chance to face the best teams in New England. Be interesting to hear what the NESCAC fans think of the breakup.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

Old Rook, while I am a huge fan of Kyle Thomas, the shot that he scored would have been stopped 99% of the time with a seasoned goalie. I have to say that I felt bad for the Midd tender. The young man, because of unfortunate circumstances, was thrown into the fire.

Charlie, I don't know where you were sitting, but from where I sat, it looked like he let that shot go when the puck was about two or three inches from the goal line, and it just caught the far post and pin balled in. He had no more than an inch opening to get that puck through. From other places it may have looked different (I saw the WPTZ replay and thought that it just did not give that shot justice), but that was a shot that nobody makes. Maybe a more experienced goalie would have seen it and stopped it, but it had a lot of pace on it and I suspect he thought it was going to hit the near post or the side of the net. That was a real seeing eye shot.

 

[VT bragging rights]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

WPTZ TV recap of Midd-Wick game
http://www.wptz.com/video/30292538/detail.html

 

[AldenPartridge1819]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

Charlie, I don't know where you were sitting, but from where I sat, it looked like he let that shot go when the puck was about two or three inches from the goal line, and it just caught the far post and pin balled in. He had no more than an inch opening to get that puck through. From other places it may have looked different (I saw the WPTZ replay and thought that it just did not give that shot justice), but that was a shot that nobody makes. Maybe a more experienced goalie would have seen it and stopped it, but it had a lot of pace on it and I suspect he thought it was going to hit the near post or the side of the net. That was a real seeing eye shot.

I agree with Crosby. That was a weak goal. Thomas was simply throwing the puck on the net at the end of his shift. He looked as surprised as anyone that it went in.

On the other topic, Midd was horrible. Not the same team that I saw at the Primelink at all. I almost felt embarrassed for them last night. Kinda sad to see, actually.

 

[Old Rook NU'66]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

That was a weak goal.

I was more than happy to concede to Crosby that Thomas's goal may not have been the most powerful shot in the world since I am only able to view the video. I even acknowledge that the Panthers had a rookie goalie. But I will also repeat the same offered to Alden Partridge about Thomas' Middlebury goal that I made to someone else, who made a similar remark about how easy Thomas' empty net goal was against Morrisville.

I said then back the, "Good point. Well grab your skates, stick and puck. Now head for the nearest empty net and with one guy breathing down your neck at full speed but not quite between you and the net--with another guy right behind him." (and actually just like the Morrisville game there were two guys right behind Thomas last night when he took his shot).

Me? I'll shoot the video of you proving how easily it is to hit that open net, at that speed, with about 5% of the goal mouth open from the angle of your shot. Your pond or mine?"

So far Thomas is 2 for 2 from that "easy" angle. And did Thomas looked surprised? In all honesty, most of the time they all look surprised.

 

[OSU2010]

So far Thomas is 2 for 2 from that "easy" angle. And did Thomas looked surprised? In all honesty, most of the time they all look surprised.

2 for 2? So he's only attempted to make 2 shots from that angle all season? Did you go back and watch him play in every game?

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

2 for 2? So he's only attempted to make 2 shots from that angle all season? Did you go back and watch him play in every game?

Old Rook is refering to two instances now that people on this board have called shots he has scored on "easy". The Morrisville empty netter and now this one.

I don't think he's talking about every shot Kyle Thomas has taken this season.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

Old Rook is refering to two instances now that people on this board have called shots he has scored on "easy". The Morrisville empty netter and now this one.

I don't think he's talking about every shot Kyle Thomas has taken this season.

On a totally different point, I'm going to call out those people who say that Thomas is a selfish player. He made a whole lot of great moves last night the were designed to set up teammates. It wasn't all about showing off. He was making a lot of good passes.

 

[Ozz]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

Old Rook is refering to two instances now that people on this board have called shots he has scored on "easy". The Morrisville empty netter and now this one.

I don't think he's talking about every shot Kyle Thomas has taken this season.

OSU was referring to the fact that he is claiming to be 2 for 2... I think we can say he is 2 for something, but to say he has only taken two shots from that angle would mean you have seen every shot he has taken this year.

 

[wickfan]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

I agree with Crosby. That was a weak goal. Thomas was simply throwing the puck on the net at the end of his shift. He looked as surprised as anyone that it went in.

On the other topic, Midd was horrible. Not the same team that I saw at the Primelink at all. I almost felt embarrassed for them last night. Kinda sad to see, actually.

Thomas is playing his first game after his knee injury. Thomas played well and scored an hard angle goal.
As far as middlebury I would be more embarrassed not wining one game in a tourny thats held in my own house.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

On a totally different point, I'm going to call out those people who say that Thomas is a selfish player. He made a whole lot of great moves last night the were designed to set up teammates. It wasn't all about showing off. He was making a lot of good passes.

Must be he reads the forum (or Prez told him)

 

[Brian C]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

Anybody who was suprised at the outcome on tues obviously has not been watching the pathetic panthers latley. 3-6-1 in their last 10,have not beat a good team yet ,2nd game of the season vs Bowdoin is not counting in my book . This team really has nothing ,very ho hum kinda going thru the motions. Time for plan B and if no plan B make one because this one clearly stinks. If you look for positives all i can see is a good penalty kill but we do not take a lot of penalities. The reason for lack of penalities is the panthers are pansies and hate to be hit. There are 4 players that take the body the rest try to stick check at best and not touch anybody.Another incredible thing about this team is how much they hesitate before they attempt to shoot ,and i do mean attempt , the guys on the blue line couldnt break a piece of glass with their big slappers.This is my 36th year of watching the panthers and the least exciting.This year reminds me of Wendy F orbes last 2 -3 years as coach ,playing out the string,not really caring .Well 8 games left ,my prediction 3-5 ,miss home ice in playoffs,lose in 1st round again. Hopefully the boys will prove me wrong,but it seems doubtful

 

[NUProf]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

If you look for positives all i can see is a good penalty kill but we do not take a lot of penalities. The reason for lack of penalities is the panthers are pansies and hate to be hit.

Norwich is the least penalized team in country and I don't think anybody will call them "pansies."

 

[VT bragging rights]

Re: Norwich Cadets Hockey 2011-2012: In Search of a Title

Coach Mike McShane goes for his 600th win this weekend at home. What are the odds he takes a bath. I do not remember which win it was but he looked pretty ****ed when Toza dumped the water cooler on him.