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Norwich 2015-16 - 17 straight ECAC East titles and counting....

Re: Norwich 2015-16 - 17 straight ECAC East titles and counting....

I will say, the "Norwich Model" is being validated by the number of "commits" announced by these other schools who actually end up going D1/elsewhere.
 
Re: Norwich 2015-16 - 17 straight ECAC East titles and counting....

I don't believe prep school or d1 transfers are generally listed on the internet. I noticed Babson has nothing listed and they have a strong program.
 
Re: Norwich 2015-16 - 17 straight ECAC East titles and counting....

I will say, the "Norwich Model" is being validated by the number of "commits" announced by these other schools who actually end up going D1/elsewhere.

How is their model being validated exactly? If a D1 school wants your guy they are going to take him whether he is announced on the internet or not. For all we know Norwich could have lost multiple guys to d1 schools, if we don't know who their recruits are then how do we know if Norwich is losing them to D1.
 
Re: Norwich 2015-16 - 17 straight ECAC East titles and counting....

I don't believe prep school or d1 transfers are generally listed on the internet. I noticed Babson has nothing listed and they have a strong program.

quite a few division 1 transfers listed on the d3hockey.com commitment pages this year actually...Utica had 3 I remember seeing, stevens-point, geneseo
 
How is their model being validated exactly? If a D1 school wants your guy they are going to take him whether he is announced on the internet or not. For all we know Norwich could have lost multiple guys to d1 schools, if we don't know who their recruits are then how do we know if Norwich is losing them to D1.

By not announcing your class, no one knows if guys bail over the summer. You alluded to this in your post. While it clearly isn't a big deal, I can tell you from experience it's embarrassing to "announce" a player who ends up bailing. That's all I meant by "validated".
 
I don't believe prep school or d1 transfers are generally listed on the internet. I noticed Babson has nothing listed and they have a strong program.

Some DI transfers most certainly are. Some, not all. Prep kids are a bit of a different animal. There's a site out there for the NESCAC that always lists a slew of prep kids, but many of them are not actually hockey recruits. Rather, they are simply kids that played prep hockey that happened to decide to go to a NESCAC school. Between the terrible PR of the prep schools themselves and the lack of credibility of the one site out there that claims to have info...properly documenting prep kids that are actual recruits is a dicey game. And that...is why you don't see many listed.
 
Re: Norwich 2015-16 - 17 straight ECAC East titles and counting....

Not convinced secrecy played to the Cadet's advantage last year. How many from last year's recruiting class panned out? How many from last year's recruiting class will return? One, maybe two? Should have posted the list early and opened the season for poachers. This season's going to be very interesting...
 
Re: Norwich 2015-16 - 17 straight ECAC East titles and counting....

Some DI transfers most certainly are. Some, not all. Prep kids are a bit of a different animal. There's a site out there for the NESCAC that always lists a slew of prep kids, but many of them are not actually hockey recruits. Rather, they are simply kids that played prep hockey that happened to decide to go to a NESCAC school. Between the terrible PR of the prep schools themselves and the lack of credibility of the one site out there that claims to have info...properly documenting prep kids that are actual recruits is a dicey game. And that...is why you don't see many listed.
yes if you go to the d3 site, there are a few listed,off the top of my head,Geneseo has 1 for sure and I reme,ber seeing a few more.
 
Re: Norwich 2015-16 - 17 straight ECAC East titles and counting....

Not convinced secrecy played to the Cadet's advantage last year. How many from last year's recruiting class panned out? How many from last year's recruiting class will return? One, maybe two? Should have posted the list early and opened the season for poachers. This season's going to be very interesting...

For DIII since no "commitments" are binding until you enroll on campus when school starts, announcing your commitments doesn't help you and can hurt you because you look bad if somebody (as is their right) changes their mind at the last minute. Some junior programs want to publicize where their guys go because it helps their recruiting. It lose-lose for the college in any case.
 
For DIII since no "commitments" are binding until you enroll on campus when school starts, announcing your commitments doesn't help you and can hurt you because you look bad if somebody (as is their right) changes their mind at the last minute. Some junior programs want to publicize where their guys go because it helps their recruiting. It lose-lose for the college in any case.

Thank you. That's the point I was trying to make. What started this fiasco was my SELFISH desire to see who we had coming in.
 
yes if you go to the d3 site, there are a few listed,off the top of my head,Geneseo has 1 for sure and I reme,ber seeing a few more.

Yes, we have a handful of them listed at this point. There are always some we can't track down as some schools play it really close to the vest, but we always manage to at least unearth some of them. Point, Geneseo, Utica and a few others I can't recall right now so far. Since this is the NU thread, I'll mention that I'm curious to see what the rest of its class looks like this year. I expect it to be a decent-sized group, and places like UMB have kept their feet on the gas and have some pretty good looking classes.
 
Re: Norwich 2015-16 - 17 straight ECAC East titles and counting....

Something I've been thinking about, and a nice opportunity to get NU hockey chatter going again during these dog days of summer...

In 2008-2009, Norwich finished 13-8-4, won the totally meaningless "Regular Season Championship", and lost in the first round of the ECAC East tourney. Also then lost their leading scorer, as he exhausted his eligibility. I was around then, and there was not the same doom and gloom we've been subjected to recently. The following season, we won our third national championship.

This past season, Norwich finished 17-8-2, failed to win a 17th straight meaningless "Regular Season Championship", and advanced to the NEHC semifinals. We return our top four scorers next season.

History tells me, a rebound is far more likely than the continued decline which so many have predicted. While I'm not calling a 2017 national championship, I fully expect a return to form for the Cadets.

What do you think is more likely?
 
Re: Norwich 2015-16 - 17 straight ECAC East titles and counting....

I'm always optimistic, but I will take issue with one point. The regular season championship is not meaningless. It measures excellence over the course of the entire season. If anything, the playoffs, as they are set up, are what is meaningless. The 2009 loss to the #8 seed was what was a fluke, and as long as league tournaments are played with that ridiculous format, there will be upsets like that. The kind of a team you have is best measured by regular season performance. Once the playoffs start anything can happen.

I'm more sanguine about their chances this year, mostly because I'm not sure that what is coming back is of the same quality as what has come back in the past. Maybe there will be some growth, and I hope so, but the lost regular season title is concerning.
 
I'm always optimistic, but I will take issue with one point. The regular season championship is not meaningless. It measures excellence over the course of the entire season. If anything, the playoffs, as they are set up, are what is meaningless. The 2009 loss to the #8 seed was what was a fluke, and as long as league tournaments are played with that ridiculous format, there will be upsets like that. The kind of a team you have is best measured by regular season performance. Once the playoffs start anything can happen.

I'm more sanguine about their chances this year, mostly because I'm not sure that what is coming back is of the same quality as what has come back in the past. Maybe there will be some growth, and I hope so, but the lost regular season title is concerning.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment. The regular season title gets you home ice in the tourney, the tourney title punches your ticket. While I don't disagree that the tourney set up would allow a lesser team into the tourney over a regular season champ, that's the hand all teams who play in league tourneys are dealt. Personally, I'd be in favor of eliminating the tourney. Your "regular season champ" is your champion and they get the AQ. Simple.

When you look at the 08-09 team, objectively, over the course of the season, they just weren't that good. 8 losses don't lie. BUT, no one said that because they won the regular season. While the loss was a bit flukey, I wasn't shocked.

The 2009-10 team was very freshman heavy, much like what we'll see take the ice in October. Now, that freshman class was absurdly talented...

The last couple of weeks I've heard some things about what we've got coming in, and I'm looking forward to the season.
 
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Re: Norwich 2015-16 - 17 straight ECAC East titles and counting....

I respectfully disagree with your assessment. The regular season title gets you home ice in the tourney, the tourney title punches your ticket. While I don't disagree that the tourney set up would allow a lesser team into the tourney over a regular season champ, that's the hand all teams who play in league tourneys are dealt. Personally, I'd be in favor of eliminating the tourney. Your "regular season champ" is your champion and they get the AQ. Simple.

When you look at the 08-09 team, objectively, over the course of the season, they just weren't that good. 8 losses don't lie. BUT, no one said that because they won the regular season. While the loss was a bit flukey, I wasn't shocked.

The 2009-10 team was very freshman heavy, much like what we'll see take the ice in October. Now, that freshman class was absurdly talented...

The last couple of weeks I've heard some things about what we've got coming in, and I'm looking forward to the season.

So you view the 25 game regular season as a 25 game exhibition slate? I disagree with that, because unlike football, hockey is a sport which is sorted out in the long run, not the short term. An inferior team can have short term success with a bit of puck luck, but in the long run cream will come to the top. I have always thought that at the very least playoffs should be 2 game race to 3 points series. (Ideally that should be a 3 game series, but just getting to two would be an improvement.)

As for what is going on in Northfield, since it has been 4 years since I left, my sources are drying up - my peers are getting older and I'm not in the day to day loop with admissions and athletic staff that I used to be, thus I can't make judgements about recruiting at all. The one thing that has changed is that with the expansion of DIII hockey over the last few years (which isn't a bad thing), the competition for recruits has become more challenging - We can see that with historical powers like Middlebury seeing a real slide in their level of success. The landscape is changing, and some of the new players seem to be taking the Adrian model of getting good fast rather than starting slow and building up like Castleton did when they started.

Thirty years at Norwich hasn't changed my appreciation for what has been built there - anybody who watched games at Taylor Arena knows that NU hockey has come a long way - I think the sustainable success may look different today than it did 10 years ago.

These are just the rambling thoughts of a guy who will watching as many NU games as I can from a distance at age 70, and wants to see success, but I also know the recruiting pie has to be sliced in smaller slices so it becomes harder and harder to have the same kind of dominance that NU used to have.
 
So you view the 25 game regular season as a 25 game exhibition slate? I disagree with that, because unlike football, hockey is a sport which is sorted out in the long run, not the short term. An inferior team can have short term success with a bit of puck luck, but in the long run cream will come to the top. I have always thought that at the very least playoffs should be 2 game race to 3 points series. (Ideally that should be a 3 game series, but just getting to two would be an improvement.)

As for what is going on in Northfield, since it has been 4 years since I left, my sources are drying up - my peers are getting older and I'm not in the day to day loop with admissions and athletic staff that I used to be, thus I can't make judgements about recruiting at all. The one thing that has changed is that with the expansion of DIII hockey over the last few years (which isn't a bad thing), the competition for recruits has become more challenging - We can see that with historical powers like Middlebury seeing a real slide in their level of success. The landscape is changing, and some of the new players seem to be taking the Adrian model of getting good fast rather than starting slow and building up like Castleton did when they started.

Thirty years at Norwich hasn't changed my appreciation for what has been built there - anybody who watched games at Taylor Arena knows that NU hockey has come a long way - I think the sustainable success may look different today than it did 10 years ago.

These are just the rambling thoughts of a guy who will watching as many NU games as I can from a distance at age 70, and wants to see success, but I also know the recruiting pie has to be sliced in smaller slices so it becomes harder and harder to have the same kind of dominance that NU used to have.


I don't view the regular season as an exhibition at all. I'm not sure my initial point about the regular season title being meaningless was properly articulated. As things are currently constructed, the regular season title is meaningless. Contrary to what I have inadvertently implied, I think the regular season should be all that matters. As I said in my previous post, let's eliminate the conference tourney altogether. Your "top seed" is your champion and they get the AQ. Nice and easy.

I'm predicting NU follows more of a Platty model than the Middlebury collapse; seasons of greatness bracketed by seasons of being very good.

Your point about recruiting being diluted, (my word) for lack of a better term, is accurate. That said, I would offer big time college football as an example. Nowhere is the "arms race" more prevalent nor obvious. Facilities, uniforms, etc are amazing across the board. However, Alabama has still won 4 national championships in 7 seasons. There is "something" that still makes them stand out. I think Norwich hockey has the same "something".
 
Re: Norwich 2015-16 - 17 straight ECAC East titles and counting....

Dont worry boys I will be up there in September with my dad for homecoming/football game,he graduated 55' , and I will straighten out the whole thing:D
 
Dont worry boys I will be up there in September with my dad for homecoming/football game,he graduated 55' , and I will straighten out the whole thing:D

Homecoming is always a great weekend at NU. All indications are that football had a tremendous year recruiting, coming off a conference championship last season. Hopefully the future for football is bright as well!
 
Re: Norwich 2015-16 - 17 straight ECAC East titles and counting....

Your point about recruiting being diluted, (my word) for lack of a better term, is accurate. That said, I would offer big time college football as an example. Nowhere is the "arms race" more prevalent nor obvious. Facilities, uniforms, etc are amazing across the board. However, Alabama has still won 4 national championships in 7 seasons. There is "something" that still makes them stand out. I think Norwich hockey has the same "something".

I'm hoping it isn't the same "something" - an overemphasis and the ability to sidestep the concept that athletics is a support for the academic mission of a school, not the reason for being of the school. I hope that never happens at Norwich.
 
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