What's new
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

To play devil's advocate... does anyone here think that LOTS of cops don't use threatening language to get people to do as they've commanded?

I get it. He's pointing a gun and threatening to shoot people and I myself called it assault. It's intense and ugly and very real.

Who thinks this is uncommon? You think all cops just ask nicely or threaten to count to 5.




Consider before you respond to this.


From what I've heard from the cops that I know of (not exactly a hotbed of racism, mind you, although it was a top spot for Hispanics and Hmong)...these cops spoke firmly, no Hollywood talk (gonna count to 5), but not exactly polite, either. Direct, succinct commands. There was no clarification questions to be had.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Would it have been better had he said, "I'll arrest you." or "I'll put you down."?

I suppose so.


I guess I don't see it as the end of the world (or this guy's career) as some do.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Would it have been better had he said, "I'll arrest you." or "I'll put you down."?

I suppose so.


I guess I don't see it as the end of the world (or this guy's career) as some do.

He pointed a gun at an individual that specifically showed his hands/etc and said no threat. That is a little gung ho, IMO.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

He pointed a gun at an individual that specifically showed his hands/etc and said no threat. That is a little gung ho, IMO.


It is. I'll agree.

Did those people believe the threat was real? No way. They smarted off in reply.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

To play devil's advocate... does anyone here think that LOTS of cops don't use threatening language to get people to do as they've commanded?

I get it. He's pointing a gun and threatening to shoot people and I myself called it assault. It's intense and ugly and very real.

Who thinks this is uncommon? You think all cops just ask nicely or threaten to count to 5.


Consider before you respond to this.

In this case he had a semi-automatic rifle and threatened specifically to use it. I think that pushes it over the line of "assertive talk, take control of the situation." It shouldn't be forgotten this a*shole was baiting the cop and clearly deserved a swat in the chops with a bag of wet brownies. This is an unusual situation in that all of the wussy media in the world (most of whom are flogging an anti-cop agenda) are in Ferguson "reporting" on this perfect storm. And I'd imagine most of the officers involved are unprepared either by training or experience to deal with it.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

From what I've heard from the cops that I know of (not exactly a hotbed of racism, mind you, although it was a top spot for Hispanics and Hmong)...these cops spoke firmly, no Hollywood talk (gonna count to 5), but not exactly polite, either. Direct, succinct commands. There was no clarification questions to be had.

Things can change when people are posturing for the media.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

And that is what really drives me nuts about this, and anything cop-related. Media should not dictate law.

The groups involved in demonstrating in Ferguson all week long are really quite small. And invariably they become more animated when the lights and cameras are trained on them. What the hippies chanted in '68 in Chicago is still true: "The whole world is watching."
 
Last edited:
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

NBC news is saying 2 federal wrongful deaths cases were filed against Ferguson police yesterday, the cases involved the use of a taser back in 2011
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Above all, under no circumstances ever, is this cop to be given the benefit of any doubt.

In a criminal investigation, nobody gets the benefit of the doubt.

The benefit the cop gets is innocent unless proven guilty. It is starting to sound like there is so little real information and so little honesty from all parties concerned that regardless of what really happened the criminal standard of guilt (beyond reasonable doubt) will never be met. The civil standard (preponderance of the evidence), on the other hand, might be met.
 
Last edited:
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

To play devil's advocate... does anyone here think that LOTS of cops don't use threatening language to get people to do as they've commanded?

I'd have thought they were trained to use specific terms, if only for the department to escape liability. It's like firing an employee. You don't let your manager just wing it because you know the shmuck will say something that lands you in court. You train him exactly what to say and not to say.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Point of comparison: Just yesterday, St Louis PD went through a perhaps very similar situation with a shoplifter who became aggressive with cops and was killed (let's just assume that at least that much is a fairly direct comparison to what happened with Brown).

In the interest of "transparency", SLPD has already released a fair amount of information including their side of what happened, as well as cell phone video from a witness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j-P54MZVxMU (if you have the heart for it).

Now, to be fair, this is also an entirely different situation for a number of rather obvious reasons:
  • Powell (the "victim", for lack of better term, in SL) was armed with a knife and was undeniably behaving aggressively (or at the very least: aggressively enough to warrant a reaction from the cops).
  • You might be able to reasonably call the SL incident a suicide-by-cop.
  • We actually have fairly conclusive video evidence that, barring a major surprise, we don't have in the Ferguson case.
  • While we still only have limited information available in Ferguson, but there really isn't much to dispute in SL. You could make arguments about how quickly guns were drawn, or use this as a talking point as to what options cops have to disarm a guy like this before shooting him numerous times, but at the end of the day I don't know that you can really dispute any reasoning the cops can give for killing Powell.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Do you really think that the average black person who gets caught is just that much more obvious and that's why they get caught (and I'm mostly focusing on the small time arrests just to clarify)? I guess all I'm saying is, the nimrods that lived by you aren't necessarily representative of an entire population. And I highly doubt that the disparity in arrests is what it is because one race lacks discretion and the other doesn't.


I'll just put this here...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11385221/legarrette-blount-leveon-bell-pittsburgh-steelers-set-face-misdemeanor-marijuana-possession-charges


"Ross Township detective Brian Kohlhepp said traffic officer Sean Stafiej pulled over a Camaro operated by Bell around 1:30 p.m. after Stafiej, who was on a motorcycle, noticed a strong odor of marijuana coming from the vehicle. Stafiej found a 20 gram bag of marijuana inside the car."


I mean, dude's on a motorcycle and can smell it... lol.
 
Last edited:
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Anecdotal evidence is nice and all...

Point of comparison: Just yesterday, St Louis PD went through a perhaps very similar situation with a shoplifter who became aggressive with cops and was killed (let's just assume that at least that much is a fairly direct comparison to what happened with Brown).

In the interest of "transparency", SLPD has already released a fair amount of information including their side of what happened, as well as cell phone video from a witness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j-P54MZVxMU (if you have the heart for it).

Now, to be fair, this is also an entirely different situation for a number of rather obvious reasons:
  • Powell (the "victim", for lack of better term, in SL) was armed with a knife and was undeniably behaving aggressively (or at the very least: aggressively enough to warrant a reaction from the cops).
  • You might be able to reasonably call the SL incident a suicide-by-cop.
  • We actually have fairly conclusive video evidence that, barring a major surprise, we don't have in the Ferguson case.
  • While we still only have limited information available in Ferguson, but there really isn't much to dispute in SL. You could make arguments about how quickly guns were drawn, or use this as a talking point as to what options cops have to disarm a guy like this before shooting him numerous times, but at the end of the day I don't know that you can really dispute any reasoning the cops can give for killing Powell.

Not sure how true it is but I heard he had mental health problems as well.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Point of comparison: Just yesterday, St Louis PD went through a perhaps very similar situation with a shoplifter who became aggressive with cops and was killed (let's just assume that at least that much is a fairly direct comparison to what happened with Brown).

In the interest of "transparency", SLPD has already released a fair amount of information including their side of what happened, as well as cell phone video from a witness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j-P54MZVxMU (if you have the heart for it).

Now, to be fair, this is also an entirely different situation for a number of rather obvious reasons:
  • Powell (the "victim", for lack of better term, in SL) was armed with a knife and was undeniably behaving aggressively (or at the very least: aggressively enough to warrant a reaction from the cops).
  • You might be able to reasonably call the SL incident a suicide-by-cop.
  • We actually have fairly conclusive video evidence that, barring a major surprise, we don't have in the Ferguson case.
  • While we still only have limited information available in Ferguson, but there really isn't much to dispute in SL. You could make arguments about how quickly guns were drawn, or use this as a talking point as to what options cops have to disarm a guy like this before shooting him numerous times, but at the end of the day I don't know that you can really dispute any reasoning the cops can give for killing Powell.

I'm sure the reaction at how Ferguson handled things played a massive role in how St. Louis PD released information. My guess is they went above and beyond to make sure people knew it wasn't a similar incident to Ferguson.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

So my former cop buddy has been over a lot lately as our boys play hockey together and he lives 40 minutes from the rink while I live about 2. Anyway, been hearing a lot of "cop stories" lately - he worked Chicago, an upper middle class south suburb and had a last stop in a small rural town here in Wisconsin. The best stories (funniest) come from that last stop - the whole deer thing is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the depravity or rural folk. The call because some guy was jerking off a dog had me on the floor. Yes, he and a partner had to go sort that one out. :D

Anyway, I digress...

Asked him about my take on pot arrests that is based solely on my personal experiences. Did my take have any merit?

He told me this (and of course I'm paraphrasing) about working the city (Chicago):

We would try to educate people on what not to do. I would say to them, "I don't care if you smoke pot. Smoke yourself to death for all I care. Just move it into your house. When you bring it out here, you bring it into my world where it becomes my problem because it is my job to enforce the law where it pertains to the general public. The next time I see you out here, I'm going to bust you(r ***)."

He went on to tell me that he'd (they'd) see the same guy(s) in the same spot the very next day - sometimes later that same day and then it was on and the guy would get busted and claim harassment and profiling and everything else. These weren't isolated incidences, this was how things were/are. This little game goes on daily.


Of course this is hearsay and you can believe it if you want to or not.
 
Last edited:
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Ferguson aside, there's a big difference between being hassled for something against the law and hassled because you fit a profile. It is not a rarity for black people to complain they are hassled by cops for doing nothing. We can call virtually the entire black population of the country liars, or we can recognize there's a problem.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Ferguson aside, there's a big difference between being hassled for something against the law and hassled because you fit a profile. It is not a rarity for black people to complain they are hassled by cops for doing nothing. We can call virtually the entire black population of the country liars, or we can recognize there's a problem.


Agreed. There's no question that racial profiling exists in some (many?) places.

It's also far from a rarity for someone who was doing something wrong to claim (after the fact) that he wasn't doing anything wrong.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top