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Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Even if he did sustain the orbital injury, Brown's body was a good 35 feet from the vehicle where the alleged confrontation supposedly occurred. Which would still likely be problematic for Wilson.
Let's put 35 feet into some perspective...it's 10 yards.
Which is why the two need to be considered separately. If 20 guys out of a thousand protesters are rioting, looting, arsoning ("arsoning"?) and shooting, that says something about the 20 guys, not the thousand protesters.
There are clearly 3 distinct groups gathering in Ferguson at night. Police, people who just want to protest peacefully, and agitators.
His point was that in a small community like Ferguson it ought to be very clear who is from the area and who is from out of town. They can't know whether those "usual suspects" are genuine advocates of some agenda or agent provocatuers, but they can know they're outsiders. Thompson essentially said local community leaders should question those folks, find out who they are and why they're there, ask them to cool it, and if met with hostility coordinate with whatever law enforcement is there to keep an eye on them. I was very surprised by this, if only because I don't expect partisan shows like that to come up with reasonable solutions.
It's been my understanding that in the last couple days they have started pointing these people out to police so they can arrest them (the protesters don't want them there either) and hopefully avoid the use of teargas. Finally worked last night.
This officer needs to have his service weapon taken away an assigned to desk duty for the rest of his career.

From Deadspin: http://bit.ly/XAvOii
I don't know that I'd go that far, but he does look like he needs a long, unpaid, vacation and some anger management classes. Then he can maybe get his service weapon back.

I also see FlagDUDE changed his name to MattS.
 

I'm skeptical of this because it makes absolutely no sense for the cops to withhold such information for nearly two weeks. There's no criminal investigation into brown they need to protect, he's already dead. If the officer was injured, that should've been front and center. My understanding is that there were no ambulances called to the scene for several hours. If nothing else, why didn't the cop get one for himself?

Then again, as I've said before, a two year old could have handled the media and the public better than the Ferguson p.d. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if they claim brown was actually armed.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

I'm skeptical of this because it makes absolutely no sense for the cops to withhold such information for nearly two weeks. There's no criminal investigation into brown they need to protect, he's already dead. If the officer was injured, that should've been front and center. My understanding is that there were no ambulances called to the scene for several hours. If nothing else, why didn't the cop get one for himself?

Then again, as I've said before, a two year old could have handled the media and the public better than the Ferguson p.d. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if they claim brown was actually armed.

I'm as confused as you are. They could have defused tons of this crap that's going on by having an ambulance at the scene to take the officer in to have his injuries checked out. Would have been a slam dunk and there would have been no rioting.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

I'm as confused as you are. They could have defused tons of this crap that's going on by having an ambulance at the scene to take the officer in to have his injuries checked out. Would have been a slam dunk and there would have been no rioting.
I think we can all agree that Ferguson PD has bungled this from the beginning, so it wouldn't be a shock if they didn't release something that they should have.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

I agree with that.

I just don't need the character part to make me believe that it's doubtful that a cop would execute someone in broad daylight from 35 feet with potential witnesses present. Maybe that happened, but it seems awfully unlikely.

Then again, I don't have a knee-jerk bias against cops or authority.


Gotta think there was more to it. If it turns out that my logical conclusion is off base, then so be it.

Seems to me we've got three choices here:

A racist cop who murders a young black man in broad daylight because he was bored.

A legitimate stop which went badly wrong because of a misunderstanding by the officer. Or bad police work.

A legitimate stop and use of lethal force to stop a subject who had already assaulted the officer and was in the midst of attacking him again.

Seems to me the first is the least likely.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

A few days late, worth noting:

So let me close just saying a few words about the tensions there [Ferguson, MO]. We have all seen images of protestors and law enforcement in the streets. It's clear that the vast majority of people are peacefully protesting. What’s also clear is that a small minority of individuals are not. While I understand the passions and the anger that arise over the death of Michael Brown, giving into that anger by looting or carrying guns, and even attacking the police only serves to raise tensions and stir chaos. It undermines rather than advancing justice.

Let me also be clear that our constitutional rights to speak freely, to assemble, and to report in the press must be vigilantly safeguarded, especially in moments like these. There’s no excuse for excessive force by police or any action that denies people the right to protest peacefully. Ours is a nation of laws for the citizens who live under them and for the citizens who enforce them.

So to a community in Ferguson that is rightly hurting and looking for answers, let me call once again for us to seek some understanding rather than simply holler at each other. Let’s seek to heal rather than to wound each other. As Americans, we've got to use this moment to seek out our shared humanity that's been laid bare by this moment -- the potential of a young man and the sorrows of parents, the frustrations of a community, the ideals that we hold as one united American family.

I’ve said this before -- in too many communities around the country, a gulf of mistrust exists between local residents and law enforcement. In too many communities, too many young men of color are left behind and seen only as objects of fear. Through initiatives like My Brother’s Keeper, I'm personally committed to changing both perception and reality. And already we're making some significant progress as people of goodwill of all races are ready to chip in. But that requires that we build and not tear down. And that requires we listen and not just shout. That's how we're going to move forward together, by trying to unite each other and understand each other, and not simply divide ourselves from one another. We're going to have to hold tight to those values in the days ahead. That's how we bring about justice, and that's how we bring about peace.

BHO 8-18-14
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

I'm as confused as you are. They could have defused tons of this crap that's going on by having an ambulance at the scene to take the officer in to have his injuries checked out. Would have been a slam dunk and there would have been no rioting.

I disagree. I don't believe knowledge of potential injuries to Wilson would have made any difference at all to the "no justice no peace" crowd. "An unarmed black boy is still dead" they would scream. Jackson would have stayed in Chicago? Sharpton in New York? Je le doute. As to the release of Wilson's medical info (assuming there is any) there may be reasons other than incompetence to explain it. Although incompetence would seem to be the leading contender. This is a teensy tiny department, just a couple of short steps removed from Mayberry. With a nuclear explosion of a case. Why should we be surprised that they don't have deft public relations people on staff to deal with hundreds of media? Any injuries he sustained should be easily verifiable through hospital records and X-rays. And those records should resolve any questions about his injuries, except in the minds of the dead enders, of course.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

A few days late, worth noting:



BHO 8-18-14

What evidence of "excessive use of force" by police is there? Other than putting a stop to violence after it flares up? These several days and nights of demonstrating have proceeded under the watchful eye of law enforcement up to the point that the gun shots ring out, the Molotov cocktails and other objects start flying. Putting a stop to that criminality using non lethal means isn't "excessive use of force."
 
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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

I disagree. I don't believe knowledge of potential injuries to Wilson would have made any difference at all to the "no justice no peace" crowd. "An unarmed black boy is still dead" they would scream. Jackson would have stayed in Chicago? Sharpton in New York? Je le doute. As to the release of Wilson's medical info (assuming there is any) there may be reasons other than incompetence to explain it. Although incompetence would seem to be the leading contender. This is a teensy tiny department, just a couple of short steps removed from Mayberry. With a nuclear explosion of a case. Why should we be surprised that they don't have deft public relations people on staff to deal with hundreds of media? Any injuries he sustained should be easily verifiable through hospital records and X-rays. And those records should resolve any questions about his injuries, except in the minds of the dead enders, of course.

Seems to me that Ferguson is in the news every night and has elevated to a stratosphere beyond any other.
According to the FBI’s most recent accounts of “justifiable homicide,” in the seven years between 2005 and 2012, a white officer used deadly force against a black person almost two times every week, which Melissa Harris-Perry pointed out in her passionate and touching tribute to Brown. Of those black persons killed, nearly one in every five were under 21 years of age. For comparison, only 8.7 percent of white people killed by police officers were younger than 21.

Given these stats it seems to me that since this type of incident is happening every week something about this incident is unique otherwise we'd have a lot more riots going on right now.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/3609...-men-more-often-statistics-say-yes-absolutely
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

I'm skeptical of this because...

The majority of that post was unrelated to the claims of an injury, but rather persons stating there was an actual struggle that led to the officer having to defend himself as opposed to the insistence by so many here that he executed Harris.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Seems to me that Ferguson is in the news every night and has elevated to a stratosphere beyond any other.


Given these stats it seems to me that since this type of incident is happening every week something about this incident is unique otherwise we'd have a lot more riots going on right now.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/3609...-men-more-often-statistics-say-yes-absolutely

What's happening far more often is young black men being murdered by other young black men. But as to your statistical inference that cops are shooting and killing young black men out of racial animus, or something. Is it even remotely possible that young black men are disproportionately putting themselves in situations by their criminal behavior and resisting arrest that increases the likelihood that they'll get plugged by the police?

And if you want to make sociological arguments to justify that: slavery, segregation, unemployment, disintegrated families, poverty, drugs, etc you should acknowledge that it's not the job of cops to take these things into consideration when responding to a homicide, armed robbery or other serious crime.

84 people shot in Chicago over the July 4th weekend. Virtually all black. Virtually all of the shooters were black. Not a peep out of the Revs or the MSM.
 
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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

The majority of that post was unrelated to the claims of an injury, but rather persons stating there was an actual struggle that led to the officer having to defend himself as opposed to the insistence by so many here that he executed Harris.


Not only here, but during the protests in Ferguson and also hinted at by a media that wants a sensational story.
 
The majority of that post was unrelated to the claims of an injury, but rather persons stating there was an actual struggle that led to the officer having to defend himself as opposed to the insistence by so many here that he executed Harris.

There were reports a bullet was shot in the car. That's something that could've been verified quickly. My issue with the struggle and then the victim being shot 35 feet away from the vehicle is that suspects don't normally yo-yo towards and away from a cop. Either they fight the cop up close or they run. They don't fight, start to run, and then turn around and decide to fight again.

If he was running back at the cop, what the hell happened to get him to turn around at that point? And why hasn't that been reported at all?
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

If he was running back at the cop, what the hell happened to get him to turn around at that point?
It is an odd little sequence of events, if that's what really happened. Either Brown made a really odd and frankly moronic choice or there's really something amiss there.

And why hasn't that been reported at all?
The only reason we know for sure is that FPD has no shortage of ways to mismanage this situation, and are evidently knee deep in one hell of an investigation to figure out what the hell actually happened. That or constant riot control means that actually investigating and filing a report has taken a back seat. Or they've just been dinking around and playing Candy Crush all day. ****ed if anyone really knows.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

There were reports a bullet was shot in the car. That's something that could've been verified quickly. My issue with the struggle and then the victim being shot 35 feet away from the vehicle is that suspects don't normally yo-yo towards and away from a cop. Either they fight the cop up close or they run. They don't fight, start to run, and then turn around and decide to fight again.

If he was running back at the cop, what the hell happened to get him to turn around at that point? And why hasn't that been reported at all?

Good questions. Some of which have been addressed by the talk show lady's narrative. We'll see. What do you suppose would have been the reaction of "the community" if the FPD had immediately rushed forward with all the information its investigations revealed (within the limits of its capability)? Any chance some in "the community" would claim the cops were "trying the case in the press?" And trying to "bury the investigation?"
 
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Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Is this 35 foot thing fact? Or just that's how far the officer's car was from Brown's body? The cop obviously wasn't in the car when he shot Brown six times but he could have easily been right next to Brown when he was shot.
 
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet

Is this 35 foot thing fact? Or just that's how far the officer's car was from Brown's body? The cop obviously wasn't in the car when he shot Brown six times but he could have easily been right next to Brown when he was shot.

Same difference though. There was supposedly a struggle in the car, during which a shot may or may not have gone off. Brown then ends up dead 35 feet, or 12 yards, away from the car, shot from primarily if not entirely the front. He had to have gotten there and been facing the cop somehow.

If the cop is right up there next to him, that simply leads to more questions like why the hell the cop got within arm's reach of Brown after the altercation in the car or why he didn't keep his distance until Brown started obeying orders. And if he did keep his distance, the initial question remains, what the hell happened to make Brown stop walking/running away and then charge the officer again.
 
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