trixR4kids
New member
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
Not sure if serious, but for some people it is disproportionately "their turn".
Not sure if serious, but for some people it is disproportionately "their turn".
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Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
- Thread starter Old Pio
- Start date
- Status
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
That's where the life isn't fair part comes in. Get over it.
That's where the life isn't fair part comes in. Get over it.
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
My theory on the protests is this. To the extent they are "organized" (which I believe they are), it's done solely for political purposes. It's an organized effort to force the district attorney, politically, to bring charges against the officer, and to a lesser extent, to apply pressure on the community as a whole to convict once the trial occurs.
We can debate whether that's right or wrong. It's obviously not a great justice system when it's path is dictated, at least in part, by "mob rule." But I'm sure others would argue pressure is necessary to force the hand of authorities who would otherwise "protect their own."
I don't think I'd be spending a lot of time down there either.
My theory on the protests is this. To the extent they are "organized" (which I believe they are), it's done solely for political purposes. It's an organized effort to force the district attorney, politically, to bring charges against the officer, and to a lesser extent, to apply pressure on the community as a whole to convict once the trial occurs.
We can debate whether that's right or wrong. It's obviously not a great justice system when it's path is dictated, at least in part, by "mob rule." But I'm sure others would argue pressure is necessary to force the hand of authorities who would otherwise "protect their own."
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Gurtholfin
Guest
trixR4kids
New member
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there. For the most part I agree with what you've been saying though.
(IRT Scooby)
I think it's grown into a broader issue of not being able to trust those who are supposed to protect and serve. And the way the police have been handling things (not just assaulting protestors and reporters, the leaking of the tapes against the DOJ's wishes, no transparency, not installing dash cams which could've shed light on what actually happened, etc).
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there. For the most part I agree with what you've been saying though.
(IRT Scooby)
I think it's grown into a broader issue of not being able to trust those who are supposed to protect and serve. And the way the police have been handling things (not just assaulting protestors and reporters, the leaking of the tapes against the DOJ's wishes, no transparency, not installing dash cams which could've shed light on what actually happened, etc).
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Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
Is it disproportionate to their crime rate?
And I didn't realize that when police don riot gear and/or use year gas that otherwise perfectly peaceful citizens have no choice but to turn violent.
Who knew?
Is it disproportionate to their crime rate?
And I didn't realize that when police don riot gear and/or use year gas that otherwise perfectly peaceful citizens have no choice but to turn violent.
Who knew?
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trixR4kids
New member
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
Ah yes, they just commit more crimes! Which is hilarious when looking at the disparity between MJ arrests despite white people using it just as much as blacks.
And maybe if they didn't show up in full riot gear this wouldn't have escalated, crazy concept. Or if they didn't just start throwing tear gas at people and calling them animals trying to provoke violence...
Yeah it's all the protestors!
Ah yes, they just commit more crimes! Which is hilarious when looking at the disparity between MJ arrests despite white people using it just as much as blacks.
And maybe if they didn't show up in full riot gear this wouldn't have escalated, crazy concept. Or if they didn't just start throwing tear gas at people and calling them animals trying to provoke violence...
Yeah it's all the protestors!
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
Is MJ pot?
Is MJ pot?
trixR4kids
New member
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
Yes
Not sure how that's deflecting, it's a perfect example of blacks being targeted for vehicle searches more than whites despite similar use. It partially explains why blacks "commit more crimes".
Yes
Not sure how that's deflecting, it's a perfect example of blacks being targeted for vehicle searches more than whites despite similar use. It partially explains why blacks "commit more crimes".
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
So cops ignore white people smoking pot and move onto the black guy?
So cops ignore white people smoking pot and move onto the black guy?
trixR4kids
New member
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
Well there definitely aren't any racist cops out there, that much is certain. Racism doesn't exist anymore and anyone who thinks so is a "race baiter".
Gurt, the disparity is pretty telling no matter what explanation you want to use.
Well there definitely aren't any racist cops out there, that much is certain. Racism doesn't exist anymore and anyone who thinks so is a "race baiter".
Gurt, the disparity is pretty telling no matter what explanation you want to use.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
A deflector and an apologist.
A deflector and an apologist.
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
But here's the problem. There is a reason the authorities don't just come out with a story immediately regarding what happened, especially when the facts may be controverted or puzzling. That story is going to be wrong.
We heard a story right away. It was of a very peaceful young man looking forward to his college career, pulled into a police car (for reasons not yet quite explained or even theorized), who barely escapes, attempts to flee this homicidal cop, is shot in the back and then basically executed in a hail of gunfire, all while standing there with his hands raised.
That story was there, from eyewitnesses, within hours of the shooting.
Turned out to be slightly incorrect, we now learn.
The cops, and the district attorneys who are directing them, know they need to get the story right. If they put something out there that's wrong, it can mean the difference between a conviction and an acquittal.
This cop may very well have acted illegally. If so, by all means he should be punished, just like anyone else. I'm not going to "indict" the entire police force of Ferguson because of it, or justify illegal behavior in response.
It's natural when you are the victim of something like this (Brown's family) to want answers right away. There are a lot of people who have inserted themselves into the victim's role and feel they are equally entitled.
But here's the problem. There is a reason the authorities don't just come out with a story immediately regarding what happened, especially when the facts may be controverted or puzzling. That story is going to be wrong.
We heard a story right away. It was of a very peaceful young man looking forward to his college career, pulled into a police car (for reasons not yet quite explained or even theorized), who barely escapes, attempts to flee this homicidal cop, is shot in the back and then basically executed in a hail of gunfire, all while standing there with his hands raised.
That story was there, from eyewitnesses, within hours of the shooting.
Turned out to be slightly incorrect, we now learn.
The cops, and the district attorneys who are directing them, know they need to get the story right. If they put something out there that's wrong, it can mean the difference between a conviction and an acquittal.
This cop may very well have acted illegally. If so, by all means he should be punished, just like anyone else. I'm not going to "indict" the entire police force of Ferguson because of it, or justify illegal behavior in response.
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Gurtholfin
Guest
trixR4kids
New member
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
Getting the story right is obviously important. Leaking the tape of Brown in the convenience store, and some of their other actions, not so much.
I'm not indicting the entire police force based solely on the shooting itself. They've had other issues as well that have caused the increasing distrust (beating up the wrong suspect and charging him with getting blood on their uniforms, the girl who got tear gassed By Wilson). This isn't just an issue with Ferguson PD either.
Getting the story right is obviously important. Leaking the tape of Brown in the convenience store, and some of their other actions, not so much.
I'm not indicting the entire police force based solely on the shooting itself. They've had other issues as well that have caused the increasing distrust (beating up the wrong suspect and charging him with getting blood on their uniforms, the girl who got tear gassed By Wilson). This isn't just an issue with Ferguson PD either.
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
Well Trixie, the experience (vast, compared to some) that I've had with MJ over the years has shown two very disparate methods of doing business. I just passed ten years since my last puff, but I'm an old Head and have had many friends over 20 some years...
I never knew any of my associates to stand a street corner. They only ever dealt with friends and people they knew through connections. They were also careful to never deal in anything worse as they knew that it could draw unwanted attention as that's what narco cops are really looking for.
On the other side, I lived within a block of a nasty section (apartments) of Madison for almost ten years. Had lots of fun interaction with the locals over that time, but my favorite were the deals that would take place literally at my curb. A car would pull up and a few minutes later, another and one guy would get out... you get the picture.
Well, that sort of dealing draws a lot of unwanted attention. I called it in every single time and even took photos of plates and forwarded them to a detective contact that I had made. Coz I'm anti-drugs or anti-blacks? No. Because I'm anti-drug-deals-taking-place-in-front-of-my-****ing-house-where-I-live-and-my-children-play.
Show a little discretion if you don't want to get caught.
For the cops, one method of dealing is like shooting fish in a barrel for busts while the other is way, WAY harder to track down.
I don't doubt that there are places where they are disproportionately targeted by the cops, but don't drive 20 over the limit when you have 7 pounds in the trunk. Don't sell on a corner. Don't travel to a white neighborhood (where you stick out already) to do your deals.
****ing common sense.
Also, they are still breaking the law, so there's that. They're not being busted for not breaking the law.
Had I ever been caught, I'd have known whose fault it was. The fact that I believe(d) that MJ should be legal would have no bearing on whose fault it was.
Well Trixie, the experience (vast, compared to some) that I've had with MJ over the years has shown two very disparate methods of doing business. I just passed ten years since my last puff, but I'm an old Head and have had many friends over 20 some years...
I never knew any of my associates to stand a street corner. They only ever dealt with friends and people they knew through connections. They were also careful to never deal in anything worse as they knew that it could draw unwanted attention as that's what narco cops are really looking for.
On the other side, I lived within a block of a nasty section (apartments) of Madison for almost ten years. Had lots of fun interaction with the locals over that time, but my favorite were the deals that would take place literally at my curb. A car would pull up and a few minutes later, another and one guy would get out... you get the picture.
Well, that sort of dealing draws a lot of unwanted attention. I called it in every single time and even took photos of plates and forwarded them to a detective contact that I had made. Coz I'm anti-drugs or anti-blacks? No. Because I'm anti-drug-deals-taking-place-in-front-of-my-****ing-house-where-I-live-and-my-children-play.
Show a little discretion if you don't want to get caught.
For the cops, one method of dealing is like shooting fish in a barrel for busts while the other is way, WAY harder to track down.
I don't doubt that there are places where they are disproportionately targeted by the cops, but don't drive 20 over the limit when you have 7 pounds in the trunk. Don't sell on a corner. Don't travel to a white neighborhood (where you stick out already) to do your deals.
****ing common sense.
Also, they are still breaking the law, so there's that. They're not being busted for not breaking the law.
Had I ever been caught, I'd have known whose fault it was. The fact that I believe(d) that MJ should be legal would have no bearing on whose fault it was.
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St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
This YouTube video has surface, allegedly the Michael Brown altercation/killing. I'm going to watch it when I take lunch.
http://youtu.be/VdL9dqkyjhM
This YouTube video has surface, allegedly the Michael Brown altercation/killing. I'm going to watch it when I take lunch.
http://youtu.be/VdL9dqkyjhM
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
I have a lot of questions about this incident.
What happened between Brown and the officer? Did this cop really just tell the kid to get off the street, and when he refused or didn't move fast enough, attempt to pull the kid into the car where he was sitting? Why would the cop have done that?
Why would a cop with no apparent history of violence or police brutality or race related incidents suddenly, during the middle of a sunny day, decide to go on a rampage against an 18 year old kid?
Why, in this day and age, do all police officers not have cameras, not just on the dash of their car, but on their person?
How close was the kid when he was shot, and what do the ballistics show? Were there shots fired that didn't hit anyone?
The list could go on and on.
But just because no one has yet provided me with these answers, I don't immediately assume wrongdoing on the part of the cops. But others have, and because they feel they have this right and are being denied, they have been taking action which has necessarily lead to confrontation with the authorities. I'm sure there is plenty of blame to go around, and people are right to question the judgment of the police, but the fact remains that if everyone would go back to their homes and jobs, or whatever it is they do, the "riots" would end and we could maybe move forward with trying to get some answers.
The convenience store videotape was a no-win for the authorities. They release it now, everyone accuses them of trying to deflect criticism by going after the victim. They don't release it now, they sit on it for a month before releasing and everyone asks what could they have possibly been thinking. "No Transparency!" Hiding evidence.
I have a lot of questions about this incident.
What happened between Brown and the officer? Did this cop really just tell the kid to get off the street, and when he refused or didn't move fast enough, attempt to pull the kid into the car where he was sitting? Why would the cop have done that?
Why would a cop with no apparent history of violence or police brutality or race related incidents suddenly, during the middle of a sunny day, decide to go on a rampage against an 18 year old kid?
Why, in this day and age, do all police officers not have cameras, not just on the dash of their car, but on their person?
How close was the kid when he was shot, and what do the ballistics show? Were there shots fired that didn't hit anyone?
The list could go on and on.
But just because no one has yet provided me with these answers, I don't immediately assume wrongdoing on the part of the cops. But others have, and because they feel they have this right and are being denied, they have been taking action which has necessarily lead to confrontation with the authorities. I'm sure there is plenty of blame to go around, and people are right to question the judgment of the police, but the fact remains that if everyone would go back to their homes and jobs, or whatever it is they do, the "riots" would end and we could maybe move forward with trying to get some answers.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
Re: Nice Plant #7: Get me off of this planet
I think, when it comes to the "peaceful protests turning violent, a lot of you need a dose of perspective. If you lived in a place where the police are confrontational towards you, you've witnessed and been subjected to it personally. A place where major wrongdoings towards people by police have gone unpunished. Now, a person has been killed by a member of that police force and you want justice but know the odds of it happening are long. Now, you go out to protest and the police meet you with body armor, armored trucks, and machine guns. Put yourself in that mindset: They have killed your neighbor, in your mind in cold blood, and now you stare down a police force armed to the teeth, seemingly looking for a fight. Your fight or flight instinct is going to kick in and, in this case, where a lot of people feel backed up against a wall, people are going to fight.
Does this excuse the actions of people rioting and such? No it doesn't. The problem is, is that the police in Ferguson cannot distinguish between people legitimately protesting and criminals committing crimes. They've just lumped them together, further inflaming tensions.
TL;DR People placed in an irrational situation are going to do irrational things.
I think, when it comes to the "peaceful protests turning violent, a lot of you need a dose of perspective. If you lived in a place where the police are confrontational towards you, you've witnessed and been subjected to it personally. A place where major wrongdoings towards people by police have gone unpunished. Now, a person has been killed by a member of that police force and you want justice but know the odds of it happening are long. Now, you go out to protest and the police meet you with body armor, armored trucks, and machine guns. Put yourself in that mindset: They have killed your neighbor, in your mind in cold blood, and now you stare down a police force armed to the teeth, seemingly looking for a fight. Your fight or flight instinct is going to kick in and, in this case, where a lot of people feel backed up against a wall, people are going to fight.
Does this excuse the actions of people rioting and such? No it doesn't. The problem is, is that the police in Ferguson cannot distinguish between people legitimately protesting and criminals committing crimes. They've just lumped them together, further inflaming tensions.
TL;DR People placed in an irrational situation are going to do irrational things.
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