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Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

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Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

bigblue_dl said:
Isn't the idea of putting a noose around a kids neck terrible, regardless of the race of the kid? Would it be any less terrible if it was an asian kid or a native kid or a white kid? I don't think so. People of all races have been hanged. To me, regardless of who they did this to, it is a terrible act.
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While that is true...in Mississippi doing it to a Black kid holds a bit more weight than doing it to a white kid or an Asian. Sorry but what you are saying needs way more context and nuance than you are putting into it.
 
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

Handyman said:
Whose life is he trying to destroy exactly?

Keep ducking questions Tinfoil :D
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He is of the belief that intent matters. How about we take a look at all of the "hate crime" legislation, all of which can be enforced by one thing and one thing alone: intent. Each and every single person that has been convicted of a "hate crime" is affected.
 
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

FlagDUDE08 said:
He is of the belief that intent matters. How about we take a look at all of the "hate crime" legislation, all of which can be enforced by one thing and one thing alone: intent. Each and every single person that has been convicted of a "hate crime" is affected.
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Ok...so again whose life is being destroyed? The people committing hate crimes?
 
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

On the other hand, from the perspective of a billion Indians*, news of citizens being charged for peeing on the side of a building might signal the rise of Fascism in Europe! :eek:


*People in India, you dopes. And trust me, there's a lot of peeing going on in Indian streets.
 
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

I am still waiting to hear how charging people with hate crimes (who commit crimes of hate) somehow destroys their lives...
 
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

Handyman said:
I am still waiting to hear how charging people with hate crimes (who commit crimes of hate) somehow destroys their lives...
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Why is harassment (or worse - much worse) by a person of one race against a person of a different race worse or a different crime than the same actions made involving two people of the same race?

I do believe that's point Col. Flagg wants to make.
 
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

Handyman said:
I am still waiting to hear how charging people with hate crimes (who commit crimes of hate) somehow destroys their lives...
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I've always been a kind of "if the shoe fits" guy, but there is no question certain accusations attach a stigma to the accused more than others. Rapist, pedophile and racist certainly fit within that category.

Probably at its most basic the crime these people committed is assault. They intentionally placed another in fear of great bodily harm. But when you rename the crime and add an element of race to it, with the implicit (if not explicit) accusation that the accused is a racist or "hates" someone of another race, you've ramped up the emotion, and with it the stigma.
 
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

St. Clown said:
Why is harassment (or worse - much worse) by a person of one race against a person of a different race worse or a different crime than the same actions made involving two people of the same race?

I do believe that's point Col. Flagg wants to make.
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Because intent matters in our court system. It's the difference between murder 1 and manslaughter. In cases where a crime is committed out of racial hatred and clearly premeditated that should be taken into account.
 
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

If you hate "xxx" people and are willing to act out on that hate physically it gives you far more options to do so than say if you're unhappy with your wife, brother or a friend. Did being tagged a "serial killer" unfairly label Jeffrey Dahmer? How many here are upset that Obama didn't toss around, "terrorist" or whatever? We ascribe labels all the time to criminal activity and in some cases assign degrees of penalty. I don't see why this is so hard to comprehend.
 
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Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

trixR4kids said:
Because intent matters in our court system. It's the difference between murder 1 and manslaughter. In cases where a crime is committed out of racial hatred and clearly premeditated that should be taken into account.
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Prior to hate crimes legislation, intent only mattered in whether the crime was committed, more or less, accidentally or with premeditation. Now we've entered an era where the reason of the crime matters and could be punished more harshly, not just whether or not it happened. The family of the victim won't care that their loved one was killed because of some reason aimed directly at the victim or a broader swath of people - their loved one is still dead regardless.
 
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

Slap Shot said:
If you hate "xxx" people and are willing to act out on that hate physically it gives you far more options to do so than say if you're unhappy with your wife, brother or a friend. Did being tagged a "serial killer" unfairly label Jeffrey Dahmer? How many here are upset that Obama didn't toss around, "terrorist" or whatever? We ascribe labels all the time to criminal activity and in some cases assign degrees of penalty. I don't see why this is so hard to comprehend.
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A serial killer defines a killer who has murdered multiple people spread out over many different occasions, but not enough people in a single instance to be labeled a mass murderer. It's not an assignment of intent, only of quantity of deed.
 
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

St. Clown said:
A serial killer defines a killer who has murdered multiple people spread out over many different occasions, but not enough people in a single instance to be labeled a mass murderer. It's not an assignment of intent, only of quantity of deed.
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It does define a killer that has murdered multiple people over multiple instances but in addition describes someone that most likely intends to continue the behavior until caught/dead. Again a one time argument with your brother that leads to a fight to me is less alarming than someone that targets someone because of their race.
 
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!

Slap Shot said:
If you hate "xxx" people and are willing to act out on that hate physically it gives you far more options to do so than say if you're unhappy with your wife, brother or a friend. Did being tagged a "serial killer" unfairly label Jeffrey Dahmer? How many here are upset that Obama didn't toss around, "terrorist" or whatever? We ascribe labels all the time to criminal activity and in some cases assign degrees of penalty. I don't see why this is so hard to comprehend.
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I don't have a problem with labeling hate crimes, and treating them differently, as long as it is clear that the specific case is a hate crime. It seems like sometimes that isn't as cut and dry as it appears, and that, IMO, can lead to problems. Intent is not easy to determine is some cases.
 
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