FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!
As Kep would say, "Colorado has herp-a-derps, too."
As Kep would say, "Colorado has herp-a-derps, too."
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Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!
- Thread starter dxmnkd316
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St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!
With what you're saying here, it reads as though you're allowing for those forced couplings, where the child is brainwashed into wanting to marry the guy who's leading the parents'/community's cult.
Now, something tells me that you're not supporting such a thing. However, we have to write the law to cover situations all sorts of situations, which is how these issues came about originally. Many states (all now?) have added what are known as "Romeo and Juliet" laws, which preclude the high school kids, those young lovers intending where no harm to the under aged participant would happen aside from the standard potential outcomes to sexual conduct - STIs, pregnancy, etc.
With what you're saying here, it reads as though you're allowing for those forced couplings, where the child is brainwashed into wanting to marry the guy who's leading the parents'/community's cult.
Now, something tells me that you're not supporting such a thing. However, we have to write the law to cover situations all sorts of situations, which is how these issues came about originally. Many states (all now?) have added what are known as "Romeo and Juliet" laws, which preclude the high school kids, those young lovers intending where no harm to the under aged participant would happen aside from the standard potential outcomes to sexual conduct - STIs, pregnancy, etc.
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!
I'm thinking Johnny Football the senior, and Jenny Cheerleader the freshman, who pair up on their own in HS. That sort of thing. I was unaware of the RJ laws....
I'm thinking Johnny Football the senior, and Jenny Cheerleader the freshman, who pair up on their own in HS. That sort of thing. I was unaware of the RJ laws....
What happens when Johnny graduates, joins the Army, and Jenny is a HS soph? When he comes back on leave and they continue the ficky ficky boom boom, is he in trouble?
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!
She is a legal citizen, she can speak whatever language she wants. As long as she understands the language enough to function she should be fine. (and she can since she knew what the idiot was saying)
And let me just tell you Americans dont do what you say they should when they go abroad. They are more apt to mock the language or speak an Americanized version of it than speak the actual language. (go to Mexico sometime it is everywhere)
And just because we dont have a law about an official language doesnt mean English is not the official language. You are the one kidding yourself. Everything is in English first and other languages at the whim of who is in charge. The only reason to make it a law is to bar people who dont speaking it from citizenship...no thank you. White people have no right to say that since a very high percentage of us probably descend from immigrants who did not speak English when they came here or lived here. Maybe if I thought it wouldnt be abused I would agree but we both know the crap that will be tried to keep them out we do crap like that all the time.
She is a legal citizen, she can speak whatever language she wants. As long as she understands the language enough to function she should be fine. (and she can since she knew what the idiot was saying)
And let me just tell you Americans dont do what you say they should when they go abroad. They are more apt to mock the language or speak an Americanized version of it than speak the actual language. (go to Mexico sometime it is everywhere)
And just because we dont have a law about an official language doesnt mean English is not the official language. You are the one kidding yourself. Everything is in English first and other languages at the whim of who is in charge. The only reason to make it a law is to bar people who dont speaking it from citizenship...no thank you. White people have no right to say that since a very high percentage of us probably descend from immigrants who did not speak English when they came here or lived here. Maybe if I thought it wouldnt be abused I would agree but we both know the crap that will be tried to keep them out we do crap like that all the time.
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!
The first generation speaks only the language of the old country. The second generation speaks both. The third generation speaks only the language of the new country. That's the way it's always been.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!
It's not quite so clearly delineated as that. I play hockey with a pair of cousins who immigrated to the US from Russia at the same time, came with their grandparents and parents. They older generations speak mostly Russian and a little bit of English. Meanwhile, the cousins, who were both around 10 years old when moving here, just a few months difference in ages, and have varying skills in English. Pavel, he speaks fine English, though it's heavily accented, and can also speak perfect Russian. Demitry, he can speak English without much accent at all, unless you're listening hard, you wouldn't know he immigrated here as a child; he also has a harder time speaking Russian than his cousin - he speaks the Russian equivalence of Spanglish.
Meanwhile, I'm learning through a couple coworkers, both of whom are second generation Americans whose parents moved here from Latin America, they speak both languages just fine (accented), and their kids tend to speak English primarily, but understand everything said to them in Spanish without any loss of translation.
It's not quite so clearly delineated as that. I play hockey with a pair of cousins who immigrated to the US from Russia at the same time, came with their grandparents and parents. They older generations speak mostly Russian and a little bit of English. Meanwhile, the cousins, who were both around 10 years old when moving here, just a few months difference in ages, and have varying skills in English. Pavel, he speaks fine English, though it's heavily accented, and can also speak perfect Russian. Demitry, he can speak English without much accent at all, unless you're listening hard, you wouldn't know he immigrated here as a child; he also has a harder time speaking Russian than his cousin - he speaks the Russian equivalence of Spanglish.
Meanwhile, I'm learning through a couple coworkers, both of whom are second generation Americans whose parents moved here from Latin America, they speak both languages just fine (accented), and their kids tend to speak English primarily, but understand everything said to them in Spanish without any loss of translation.
My grandparents came over on the boats separately. Neither spoke much English on arrival. They learned and insisted their kids spoke English. My wife's grandparents were the same. My dad, aunt and uncles had to learn some Norwegian before they went over to visit the old country. Grandma and Grandpa never taught them Norwegian at home, they said "you're Americans, speak English.". Grandma and Grandpa had heavy accents, but spoke only English (unless they were keeping secrets from the kids).
This is not the case today. The Twin Cities have enclaves where only Spanish or Somali or Hmung are spoken. These people are not assimilating and they don't do their kids any service by making English the second language.
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Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!
I also highly question any claim that it's prevalent nor the norm across more than a few households in any of these communities. They know where the bread will be buttered and it's not by insisting their children put English second.
My wife was on the board for the Thai Association of MN for a decade before we moved here and we interacted with hundreds of Thais as well as Hmong, Vietnamese and Koreans. During our involvement we didn't run into a single family that shunned English. I realize that's not the same as the Somalis for instance (which I imagine is the main community in mind in the TC), but where is the evidence even they are refusing to assimilate beyond supposed anecdotes of demanding cultural food options at the food shelf?
I also highly question any claim that it's prevalent nor the norm across more than a few households in any of these communities. They know where the bread will be buttered and it's not by insisting their children put English second.
My wife was on the board for the Thai Association of MN for a decade before we moved here and we interacted with hundreds of Thais as well as Hmong, Vietnamese and Koreans. During our involvement we didn't run into a single family that shunned English. I realize that's not the same as the Somalis for instance (which I imagine is the main community in mind in the TC), but where is the evidence even they are refusing to assimilate beyond supposed anecdotes of demanding cultural food options at the food shelf?
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I only have anecdotes. I just know what I see at Sam's Club and other public spaces where the whole family speaks a language that is not English. As I said, that did not happen with my grandparents. They insisted on their kids speaking English in public.
Another anecdote is the growing requirement in Minneapolis public schools for the large number of ESL teachers and all the other languages that need to translated within the schools. Again, when prior generations arrived, they assumed it was up to them to learn the language.
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Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!
I know many Americans don't try to speak other languages of the countries they are visiting. I don't like it. At least learn some phrases/basic things before you go. Attempt to speak the native language.
And the whole boat argument is bunk. When "we" first came to America, we also ended up having slaves. So is that okay, too? You come here, learn the English language. Speak the English language in business transactions, conversations with others that you may/may not know in non-business transactions (co-workers, hanging out at a bar, whatever). Go ahead and speak your native language at your home, or in a private convo in public.
Again, not saying you have to master it, but make an honest attempt to learn and speak it. We both know Pedro, the truck driver we have in common. He is FAR from the best English speaker, but he tries. Very broken English, HEAVILY accented, but he tries. Kudos to him.
I know many Americans don't try to speak other languages of the countries they are visiting. I don't like it. At least learn some phrases/basic things before you go. Attempt to speak the native language.
And the whole boat argument is bunk. When "we" first came to America, we also ended up having slaves. So is that okay, too? You come here, learn the English language. Speak the English language in business transactions, conversations with others that you may/may not know in non-business transactions (co-workers, hanging out at a bar, whatever). Go ahead and speak your native language at your home, or in a private convo in public.
Again, not saying you have to master it, but make an honest attempt to learn and speak it. We both know Pedro, the truck driver we have in common. He is FAR from the best English speaker, but he tries. Very broken English, HEAVILY accented, but he tries. Kudos to him.
unofan
Well-known member
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!
Just be cause they speak it to each other doesnt mean they dont know it or "shun" it. That anecdote doesnt prove anything except they want their kids to know their native language.
Just be cause they speak it to each other doesnt mean they dont know it or "shun" it. That anecdote doesnt prove anything except they want their kids to know their native language.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!
Just my thoughts. Free speech, as it were (although that thought could be censored on this forum, per the 1st Amendment; not public speech).
Just my thoughts. Free speech, as it were (although that thought could be censored on this forum, per the 1st Amendment; not public speech).
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
I get your view, but I don't agree with it.
FFS, I willingly spoke Spanglish with a waiter at an Ecuadorian restaurant last Thursday.
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!
Free speech doesn't mean you get protection from people pointing out that you're dumb.
Free speech doesn't mean you get protection from people pointing out that you're dumb.
Re: Nice Planet XII: It's Cruel to be Kind!
I appreciate your opinion, without attacks. Wish more discussions would be like that.
I appreciate your opinion, without attacks. Wish more discussions would be like that.
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