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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
Not quite... it's just that we can see right through reflexive apologists.
Not quite... it's just that we can see right through reflexive apologists.
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Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
- Thread starter MissThundercat
- Start date
- Status
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
When people get defensive they impugn each other's motives. So, when conservatives get defensive they call liberals suckers or posers, and when liberals get defensive they call conservatives ignoramuses or sociopaths. And there's a kernel of truth to it since 10% of the people in question actually are those things. But then the other 90% get defensive for being painted with a broad brush, and the cycle continues...
It's icky but normal freight cost for a public discussion. I doubt you'll find it any better on other public forums, and to be honest most forums are much, much worse than here. There are a couple trolls but that's why God made Ignore, and as for the others -- they're passionate and emotional, but there are open minds here.
When people get defensive they impugn each other's motives. So, when conservatives get defensive they call liberals suckers or posers, and when liberals get defensive they call conservatives ignoramuses or sociopaths. And there's a kernel of truth to it since 10% of the people in question actually are those things. But then the other 90% get defensive for being painted with a broad brush, and the cycle continues...
It's icky but normal freight cost for a public discussion. I doubt you'll find it any better on other public forums, and to be honest most forums are much, much worse than here. There are a couple trolls but that's why God made Ignore, and as for the others -- they're passionate and emotional, but there are open minds here.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
Sad part is this is actually one of the more welcoming outlets. But you are correct that there are a lot of closed minds.
unofan
Well-known member
And your six year reference was to what, if not the president's time in office.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
It'd be interesting to know exactly how involved the prosecution was in this case. I believe they took a hands off approach, which is unusual (though not necessarily when the suspect is a cop the prosecution doesn't want to go after)
I also despise the gag order on grand jurors, even though it's pretty universal. Nothing says open and honest like keeping the deciders silent under penalty of jail.
It'd be interesting to know exactly how involved the prosecution was in this case. I believe they took a hands off approach, which is unusual (though not necessarily when the suspect is a cop the prosecution doesn't want to go after)
I also despise the gag order on grand jurors, even though it's pretty universal. Nothing says open and honest like keeping the deciders silent under penalty of jail.
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
I was talking with a co-worker about this. I wonder to what extent the grand jury decision would have been different if the jurors thought their identities, votes and comments were open to the public, and if the decision would have been affected, to what extent society is better as a result of jurors voting based upon perceived or actual public pressure.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
I think this is about what the ultimate goal of this is, trying to set up a permanent way for instances of use of lethal force by police officers to be investigated independently. Right now, it doesn't seem like the system is fair and impartial to both sides. Ultimately I think a system like that will prove police officers correct most of time, because most of the time they are, but it's in the cases where there is a question that the current system is failing on.
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
Remember, everyone, Black people kill other Black people because Black people are inherently violent and everyone should be afraid of them and make sure that we keep them in their place.
Inner city violence and crime has NEVER EVER been a direct result of poor people being desperate. Ever. And decades/centuries ago when it was the Italians or Irish living in the same sort of situation, they never resorted to crime or violence to break out from their slums. Never. So let's just keep reciting those crime statistics as being factored by race and pretend like that doesn't tell us something about ourselves.
Remember, everyone, Black people kill other Black people because Black people are inherently violent and everyone should be afraid of them and make sure that we keep them in their place.
Inner city violence and crime has NEVER EVER been a direct result of poor people being desperate. Ever. And decades/centuries ago when it was the Italians or Irish living in the same sort of situation, they never resorted to crime or violence to break out from their slums. Never. So let's just keep reciting those crime statistics as being factored by race and pretend like that doesn't tell us something about ourselves.
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
So it's not possible to understand the factors that lead to some criminal behavior and at the same time not excuse it?
Good to know.
So it's not possible to understand the factors that lead to some criminal behavior and at the same time not excuse it?
Good to know.
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
For that matter, there probably won't be many locations that aren't covered by some sort of camera or recording device.
How many drunk driving trials would we have now without breathalyzer tests?
New problems will crop up, but I think these types of police conduct disputes will become largely obsolete.
I ultimately think technology is going to address many of these things. 10 years from now no law enforcement officer will be without some sort of camera device recording everything he/she does. Municipal attorneys and insurers are going to insist on it.
For that matter, there probably won't be many locations that aren't covered by some sort of camera or recording device.
How many drunk driving trials would we have now without breathalyzer tests?
New problems will crop up, but I think these types of police conduct disputes will become largely obsolete.
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
I'm trying to figure out if the sarcasm was missed.
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
I don't believe in that kind of hope. I mean, in this day and age, I thought dashboard cameras were ubiquitous in police vehicles and yet here is a case where one wasn't present. Cameras aren't going to change the fact that these cases will be handled by DAs that are reluctant to prosecute police officers. Also, the use of video footage from body cameras in cases is being fought in court by police departments. Cameras aren't going to magically change the underlying problems.
Civil liberty advocates will argue against paragraph #2.
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
That's one reason why so many more police departments are installing video cameras in all their patrol cars. I wish I could remember where I saw the study cited: citizen complaints against the police dropped way, way down once all the interactions between police and citizens were recorded on tape.
Not arguing causality, it could cut either way in theory:
- are police now more restrained since they know they are being recorded?
- are spurious, unwarranted complaints now silenced since they know there is now hard evidence to the contrary?
That's one reason why so many more police departments are installing video cameras in all their patrol cars. I wish I could remember where I saw the study cited: citizen complaints against the police dropped way, way down once all the interactions between police and citizens were recorded on tape.
Not arguing causality, it could cut either way in theory:
- are police now more restrained since they know they are being recorded?
- are spurious, unwarranted complaints now silenced since they know there is now hard evidence to the contrary?
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
there was very little urban black-on-black crime in the 1940s and 1950s even though there was active and overt discrimination back then. how is it that as overt racism has declined black-on-black crime has increased?
and regarding the Irish and violent criminal behavior, where do you think the term "paddy wagon" came from to describe the police vans used to transport multiple arrestees at the same time?
there was very little urban black-on-black crime in the 1940s and 1950s even though there was active and overt discrimination back then. how is it that as overt racism has declined black-on-black crime has increased?
and regarding the Irish and violent criminal behavior, where do you think the term "paddy wagon" came from to describe the police vans used to transport multiple arrestees at the same time?
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
Probably, but they're about 10 years too late.
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
You may be correct that there was very little urban black-on-black crime in the 40s and 50s, Fresh, but I'd like to see a source. It strikes me as likely that, with over racism being much more prevalent then, many folks didn't consider black-on-black violence as a problem and it was under reported as a result. But I don't know that or have a source to support it.
You may be correct that there was very little urban black-on-black crime in the 40s and 50s, Fresh, but I'd like to see a source. It strikes me as likely that, with over racism being much more prevalent then, many folks didn't consider black-on-black violence as a problem and it was under reported as a result. But I don't know that or have a source to support it.
Foxton
Banned
Re: Nice Planet #8: You People Make Me Sick.
There are a whole host of issues stalefish is ignoring to try and downplay racism that is still present.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
No, he found an article written by a black person that kinda supports him, so he's not racist.
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