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Nice Planet 2012

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Re: Nice Planet 2012

Old Pio said:
It's true that Himmler and Goering, to name two, tried to work out some sort of a deal with the Allies that didn't include the Soviets. I'm not aware of any evidence those overtures were met with anything other than categorical rejection. Since Allied forces had over run some of the death camps (there's film of Ike touring them) it seems doubtful they had any realistic expectation of "quietly covering up" anything.

Frankly, while the body count of the Holocaust was many times greater than the Katyn massacre, I'm not comfortable with your apparant attitude that Katyn was the price we (and of course the Poles) had to pay for a successful alliance to defeat Hitler. And it wasn't as if Katyn was the only monstrous crime committed by Stalin. You're aware of the terror famine in Ukraine (the Holodomor) that killed millions, perhaps even more than in the Holocaust, right? Of course you wouldn't have been aware of it if you'd been relying on Walter Duranty and the NYT, but that's another rant for another day.
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Oh, I'm well aware of what Stalin did to the Ukraine. Had an Ukrainian roommate years ago.

My thoughts are that the Allies all had Nazi Germany on the ropes, Italy out for the count, and was duking it out in the Pacific and SE Asia with Japan, which was still could have gone either way. Would any sane General or Commander would have wanted to tick off Stalin at that time and have to go Wrestle the Russian Bear. If there's anything to learn from history, is that you do not mess with the Bear on his home turf. As he's more than willing to just invite you in, stretch your supply lines out, and then get ready for winter when you're loosing as many men to Soviet Snipers as you are to the elements. To the War weary nations of Europe, and the rest of the Allies, having Stalin on board to settle things in Europe and lending an hand against Japan was a lesser of evils situation.
 
Re: Nice Planet 2012

bigmrg74 said:
To the War weary nations of Europe, and the rest of the Allies, having Stalin on board to settle things in Europe and lending an hand against Japan was a lesser of evils situation.
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Yeah, but that doesn't make it any less right. I know you would agree with that though.
 
Re: Nice Planet 2012

bigmrg74 said:
Oh, I'm well aware of what Stalin did to the Ukraine. Had an Ukrainian roommate years ago.

My thoughts are that the Allies all had Nazi Germany on the ropes, Italy out for the count, and was duking it out in the Pacific and SE Asia with Japan, which was still could have gone either way. Would any sane General or Commander would have wanted to tick off Stalin at that time and have to go Wrestle the Russian Bear. If there's anything to learn from history, is that you do not mess with the Bear on his home turf. As he's more than willing to just invite you in, stretch your supply lines out, and then get ready for winter when you're loosing as many men to Soviet Snipers as you are to the elements. To the War weary nations of Europe, and the rest of the Allies, having Stalin on board to settle things in Europe and lending an hand against Japan was a lesser of evils situation.
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How on earth did you make the leap from Katyn to Allied troops invading the Soviet Union? I fail to see the connection. And at the end, there was no question about which way the war in the Pacific was going to go. Just the details of where and when and how the Japanese would unconditionally surrender.

I'm afraid you have some idea in your head that's just not supported by history. This invasion you've mentioned now a couple of times, with no supporting evidence or citations. Calling Stalin out on Katyn wouldn't have reduced his enthusiasm to crush Germany. And he offered very little in the way of meaningful support against Japan, anyway. The plain fact is, letting the world know what a beast Stalin was would not have resulted in an Allied invasion of the Soviet Union. Why do you think it would?
 
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Re: Nice Planet 2012

dxmnkd316 said:
You won't get criticism from me. I think it's perfectly fine to remember the day in your own way. Especially if you remember it in a private manner. It's become a dog and pony show. To the point that I get dirty looks for walking around during God Bless America when I'm at a baseball game (not even on 9/11).

You don't need to worry about wearing your patriotism on your sleeve to love your country.
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FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Bob, this is not directed at you. I know I'm going to take heat for this because it was only 11 years ago, but...do we still watch dozens of angles of footage from Dealey Plaza every Nov. 22nd? Do we gather around the TV to formally remember the Pearl Harbor massacre to the beat of the media drum every Dec. 7th? Oklahoma City on April 19th?

I'm not trying to hate America. I'm not helping the terrorists win. I'm not deliberately trying to be an ass. I simply want to know why everyone feels that the media should go through the dog and pony show every year. For those select few of you who are old enough to remember, please help me understand. Did people still have moments of silence for Pearl Harbor in 1952? Did JFK's assassination continue to get serious media vigils in 1974? Was anyone offended if this did not happen? We barely remember OKC, which was the worst incident of terrorism in my life prior to 9/11.

Am I a shithead for not spending more than a few minutes today recalling where I was and thinking about the victims and their families, without the aid of media stimulation?

I suspect a big part of the outrage is simply because Today was interviewing those Kardashian whores.
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+1 for both of you. Well put.

We are not victims, we're Americans. We'll take your best shot and be stronger for it. Then watch out, because you do not want America angry at you.
 
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Re: Nice Planet 2012

joecct said:
$9.00 gas in NJ
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/12/gas-prices-hit-8-in-new-jersey-pennsylvania-in-lukoil-protest/

Thank heaven they don't have the Turnpike / Parkway concession any more!
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I'm glad they waited until this week. We were in Tom's River last week and premium was about 20 cents cheaper than here. Of course, in the week since we've been back the price of premium has jumped by as much as 30 cents and about $4.45 12 miles outside State College. :mad:
 
Re: Nice Planet 2012

Chalk one up for union goonery. Chicago teachers evidently going to accept a "framework" which calls for 16% in raises over the next 4 years (plus 2% COLAs each year). The issue of teacher performance was kicked down the road. This will cost taxpayers, including the low and moderate income ones who can't afford private or parochial schools (unlike the 40% of unionized teachers who can and keep their kids from the tender mercies of CPS), hundreds of millions of dollars. And won't improve the quality of teaching for one single kid. Nice.


http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/09...hes-day-5-tentative-deal-may-be-in-the-works/
 
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Re: Nice Planet 2012

Let me get this straight, they get paid on average $102,000 for an equivalent 12 months of work, and now they are getting 3.8% raises and a 2% annual COLA? That's so out of far out line with what is reasonable it's jaw-dropping. That's 25% increase in pay over four years. In 2016, the average teacher will make $127,700*,**.

*=Assuming the COLA is additive and not multiplicative relative to the previous year's salary X*(1.038+.02) vs X*1.038*1.02
**=For an equivalent of 12 months of work.
 
Re: Nice Planet 2012

dxmnkd316 said:
Let me get this straight, they get paid on average $102,000 for an equivalent 12 months of work, and now they are getting 3.8% raises and a 2% annual COLA? That's so out of far out line with what is reasonable it's jaw-dropping. That's 25% increase in pay over four years. In 2016, the average teacher will make $127,700*,**.[/SIZE]
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And despite my Master's degree, I'll still be lucky to make half of that.
 
Re: Nice Planet 2012

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
And despite my Master's degree, I'll still be lucky to make half of that.
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Yeah. This is a case where teachers ARE overpaid. Like I said before, the equivalent pay right now is more than a senior-level chemical engineer in Chicago. Think about that for a second. Now, in four years they will make $95,000 in actual pay for nine months of work. Over $10,000 a month. ON AVERAGE!

I can't wait until that district starts bouncing checks. That city deserves its fate.
 
Re: Nice Planet 2012

dxmnkd316 said:
Yeah. This is a case where teachers ARE overpaid. Like I said before, the equivalent pay right now is more than a senior-level chemical engineer in Chicago. Think about that for a second. Now, in four years they will make $95,000 in actual pay for nine months of work. Over $10,000 a month. ON AVERAGE!

I can't wait until that district starts bouncing checks. That city deserves its fate.
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You're underestimating cost of living in Chicago by a lot...
 
Re: Nice Planet 2012

No, I said they are making more than senior-level chemical engineers in Chicago. I haven't seen anything like that outside of Chicago.

The citizens are already pay the legal maximum in property taxes.

Also, this: http://www.bestplaces.net/col/?salary=76000&city1=51714000&city2=52743000

And this: http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costofliving/costofliving.html (Which indicates about a 3% difference between Chicago and Mpls)

And this: http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx (which indicates about 2.2% difference)
 
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Re: Nice Planet 2012

I think it's great that teachers make that much. Full disclosure, I have been a teacher, and may or may not become one again in the future. When the economy turns to crap, people leave the business world and become teachers, because teaching pays more than unemployment but less than what they made before. When the economy improves again, a LOT of those people quit teaching and go back to the business world.

So, why not make teaching an attractive profession to motivated people? I will grant, however, that if you do that, there HAS to be a way to weed out crappy teachers.
 
Re: Nice Planet 2012

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
I would love to make six figures in Chicago. Might actually allow me to make a decent living. :rolleyes:
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That depends on whether you want to live in a neighborhood in which you feel your children are safe or not. If you take a job which has a requirement that you MUST live within the city limits, a neighborhood like that is typically VERY expensive to live in. (And yes, CPS does have a residency requirement.)
 
Re: Nice Planet 2012

dxmnkd316 said:
Yeah. This is a case where teachers ARE overpaid. Like I said before, the equivalent pay right now is more than a senior-level chemical engineer in Chicago. Think about that for a second. Now, in four years they will make $95,000 in actual pay for nine months of work. Over $10,000 a month. ON AVERAGE!

I can't wait until that district starts bouncing checks. That city deserves its fate.
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Don't forget the COLAs. And those figures do NOT include benefits. AIUI, they pay about 3% of their medical expenses under the current plan. I read that about 70% of every dollar spent on eduction in Chicago goes to teacher salaries and benefits. Teachers with 30 years in are retiring with annual pensions in the range of 70-75K. That doesn't leave much left for "luxuries" like computers does it? Not to mention maintenance and rennovation of crumbling schools.

Whatever we do, however, we can't demand any accountability from these fat cat union hacks who care zero about the kids they teach. These union disputes don't pit the unions against the city. They pit the unions against the low and moderate income citizens, who are stuck sending their kids to inferior schools populated by incompetent, greedy teachers who make way more money than they do. Yes, of course, there are many factors which contribute to the difficulty in teaching inner city kids. But the teachers are the only ones who get paid.
 .
 
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