Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

[Kepler]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

Nah. Nothing that I can say or do that can smear this guy more than he's already smeared himself.

Point of the post was more of a jab at some posters around here. I always think it's amusing to see the reaction when someone falls all over themselves defending someone they don't know, or know nothing about, and then they learn the person turns out to be a complete turd. Judging by the posts, seems to have worked.

The problem with that sword is the edge facing you is even sharper...

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

The problem with that sword is the edge facing you is even sharper...

Hey, if you ain't bleeding, you ain't trying.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

Hey, if you ain't bleeding, you ain't trying.

Speaking of not trying...

Be proud, righties. This is your First Family now.

America: "Well, at least the Palins are the lowest they'll ever go."

Republicans: "Hold my beer."

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

Nah. Nothing that I can say or do that can smear this guy more than he's already smeared himself.

Point of the post was more of a jab at some posters around here. I always think it's amusing to see the reaction when someone falls all over themselves defending someone they don't know, or know nothing about, and then they learn the person turns out to be a complete turd. Judging by the posts, seems to have worked.

I really don't understand your point. It shouldn't matter if the guy is the next Bernie Madoff or the next candidate for Pope. Only the actions taken on the plane between the company's representative, the federal officials, and the passenger are all that matter. This really is the perfect case of a business school's lesson that happens within a vacuum.

1) Ticket purchased
2) boarding pass issued
3) ticketholder boards plane
4) request a volunteer to get off the plane in order to make life/planning easier for an employee.
5) force an unwilling ticketholder off the plane when not enough volunteers step forward
6) Have a paying customer chosen at random arrested because he has an inflexible calendar of his own at the destination and wants to stay on the flight.
7) Have the same paying customer knocked unconscious - a person is given a concussion when that happens, and dragged off the plane in a bloody mess, inflicting possible long-term brain damage from knocking the man unconscious. (CTE, anyone?)

United generated a PR nightmare for itself, as did the airport's police force.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

I really don't understand your point. It shouldn't matter if the guy is the next Bernie Madoff or the next candidate for Pope. Only the actions taken on the plane between the company's representative, the federal officials, and the passenger are all that matter. This really is the perfect case of a business school's lesson that happens within a vacuum.

1) Ticket purchased
2) boarding pass issued
3) ticketholder boards plane
4) request a volunteer to get off the plane in order to make life/planning easier for an employee.
5) force an unwilling ticketholder off the plane when not enough volunteers step forward
6) Have a paying customer chosen at random arrested because he has an inflexible calendar of his own at the destination and wants to stay on the flight.
7) Have the same paying customer knocked unconscious - a person is given a concussion when that happens, and dragged off the plane in a bloody mess, inflicting possible long-term brain damage from knocking the man unconscious. (CTE, anyone?)

United generated a PR nightmare for itself, as did the airport's police force.

Of course it doesn't matter, or shouldn't. I agree with you 100%.

Except, that's not quite the narrative that was put out there by people stoking outrage for the incident, and adopted by some here.

This wasn't just "passenger A was asked to leave, and when he didn't, was dragged kicking and screaming from the plane."

No, the narrative was delivered somewhat differently. It wasn't just generic passenger A. He was a doctor, with the implication that we are dealing with a well educated, stable, thinking individual. He was urgently needed back in Louisville at the hospital the next morning, with the implication that others people's lives are at stake here, not just this guy who wants to get home, just like everyone else. Why was this done? To stir up emotions.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

So if no one had mentioned his job you would be posting differently on the subject. I am sure YOU believe that but we all know it isnt true.

But lets for arguments sake say that is true...you are way too easy to trigger. I mean all it took was a bunch of outragers for you to completely dismiss the rights of an individual who was obviously mistreated. I mean that is your right of course...but if you lose your empathy and common sense because some people tweet about the outrage of the day you are no more mamby pamby than they are. Congrats.

But hey, you keep fighting the good fight...you and United look like geniuses

 

[Kepler]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

No, the narrative was delivered somewhat differently. It wasn't just generic passenger A. He was a doctor, with the implication that we are dealing with a well educated, stable, thinking individual. He was urgently needed back in Louisville at the hospital the next morning, with the implication that others people's lives are at stake here, not just this guy who wants to get home, just like everyone else. Why was this done? To stir up emotions.

Much in the way you dropped your little nugget.

For every person who colors the situation in one way, you'll find another who does it in reverse. And while I can at least understand people who would jump to the defense of an individual being roughed up, I just can't climb into the head of the person whose first instinct is the jab at that person and defend the airline.

Are both reactions equally emotional and uninformed? Yes. Does one of them seem a little creepy to me? Why, yes. Yes it does.

See also:

Cops and the people they shoot.

Corporations are the people their goods and services may have mangled.

High status people and the low status people they pick on.

And on and on.

Yeah, I guess both reactions are equally from the hip, but the guy who immediately jumps to the defense of the stronger party? I mean, who reacts that way?

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

I'm not surprised by reactions- the right loves corporations more than people. It doesn't matter as long as it's not affecting them directly

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

So if no one had mentioned his job you would be posting differently on the subject. I am sure YOU believe that but we all know it isnt true.

But lets for arguments sake say that is true...you are way too easy to trigger. I mean all it took was a bunch of outragers for you to completely dismiss the rights of an individual who was obviously mistreated. I mean that is your right of course...but if you lose your empathy and common sense because some people tweet about the outrage of the day you are no more mamby pamby than they are. Congrats.

But hey, you keep fighting the good fight...you and United look like geniuses

I think I've made it pretty clear in earlier posts that I'm skeptical as to whether this guy's rights were violated. United could certainly have tried a couple of other methods to avoid the current public relations nightmare, such as maybe offering more money to get someone to volunteer, or even follow uno's suggestion of bumping this guy before he entered the plane. But their failure to do so doesn't, in my opinion, rise to the level of violating his rights. Once he refused the lawful instructions of a security officer, he was looking for trouble.

But I'll admit to being a bit of a contrarian. When public outrage starts to swarm in one direction, I tend to look for reasons to go the opposite way. There is nothing the news media and blogosphere likes better than a story of our evil corporate overlords stomping on one of us. Let's see if we can't get the pitchforks and torches out. Anything that busts their narrative, frankly I enjoy.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

I think I've made it pretty clear in earlier posts that I'm skeptical as to whether this guy's rights were violated. United could certainly have tried a couple of other methods to avoid the current public relations nightmare, such as maybe offering more money to get someone to volunteer, or even follow uno's suggestion of bumping this guy before he entered the plane. But their failure to do so doesn't, in my opinion, rise to the level of violating his rights. Once he refused the lawful instructions of a security officer, he was looking for trouble.

But I'll admit to being a bit of a contrarian. When public outrage starts to swarm in one direction, I tend to look for reasons to go the opposite way. There is nothing the news media and blogosphere likes better than a story of our evil corporate overlords stomping on one of us. Let's see if we can't get the pitchforks and torches out. Anything that busts their narrative, frankly I enjoy.

That'd be fine but how do you live with such a hollow victory? Like I said before, he's going to get paid and the airline is going to suffer immeasurable losses. In other words, no matter how you look at United Airlines screwed up.

I guess if it were me I'd have a hard time reveling in such a thing when I knew the end result was a disaster.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

That'd be fine but how do you live with such a hollow victory? Like I said before, he's going to get paid and the airline is going to suffer immeasurable losses. In other words, no matter how you look at United Airlines screwed up.

I guess if it were me I'd have a hard time reveling in such a thing when I knew the end result was a disaster.

I don't measure these things as wins and losses. Whatever impact it has on me personally, it's likely to be extremely minor. It's just an event.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

I don't measure these things as wins and losses. Whatever impact it has on me personally, it's likely to be extremely minor. It's just an event.

Ok, but that's like caring about all the stats from a hockey game but ignoring the final result.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

He was asked to leave involuntarily. He refused.
He was told possible jail time. He refused.
He was told he'd be removed forcibly. He refused AND threatened a lawsuit.

Now, here's where it gets messed up:

Security completely effed him up upon removal, their fault.
He threw a tantrum and tried to prevent a "clean" forced removal, his fault. Here's a hint, if you resist like he did, bad (accidental) things may happen. I really don't think security tried to injure him, but I also admit security wasn't exactly precise in their removal.

He's now suing for all the money and saying that he was more frightened at that moment than when he fled 'Nam. Okay, whoa. Hold your horses.........that's a dam good lawyer, and a ridiculous statement.

 

[goldy_331]

He was asked to leave involuntarily. He refused.
He was told possible jail time. He refused.
He was told he'd be removed forcibly. He refused AND threatened a lawsuit.

Now, here's where it gets messed up:

Security completely effed him up upon removal, their fault.
He threw a tantrum and tried to prevent a "clean" forced removal, his fault. Here's a hint, if you resist like he did, bad (accidental) things may happen. I really don't think security tried to injure him, but I also admit security wasn't exactly precise in their removal.

He's now suing for all the money and saying that he was more frightened at that moment than when he fled 'Nam. Okay, whoa. Hold your horses.........that's a dam good lawyer, and a ridiculous statement.

It was messed up because United had no legal right to remove him. The flight was not overbooked, it was fully booked and United wanted seats for their employees. Nothing in the contracts give them the right to remove paying passengers for their dead heads.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

It was messed up because United had no legal right to remove him. The flight was not overbooked, it was fully booked and United wanted seats for their employees. Nothing in the contracts give them the right to remove paying passengers for their dead heads.

Thanks for posting this cause it's the last important piece that I was wondering about.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

It was messed up because United had no legal right to remove him. The flight was not overbooked, it was fully booked and United wanted seats for their employees. Nothing in the contracts give them the right to remove paying passengers for their dead heads.

I'm not sure that is true in every case. If a crew is needed at another airport to prevent delay of the flight they need to crew then I'm pretty sure they have the legal right to remove passengers from a flight. Flight delays can have cascading effects throughout the air travel system, and the FAA would give them the authority to make sure a crew gets where they need to be to prevent such a delay.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

I'm not sure that is true in every case. If a crew is needed at another airport to prevent delay of the flight they need to crew then I'm pretty sure they have the legal right to remove passengers from a flight. Flight delays can have cascading effects throughout the air travel system, and the FAA would give them the authority to make sure a crew gets where they need to be to prevent such a delay.

It seems to me that lost in all the discussion about whether United had a legal right to remove the passenger is a simple fact -- it's their plane. I'm certainly no expert in aviation law, but from what I've read, carriers have a right to control their own bumping processes. So long as they meet certain minimum requirements, it's "legal." They have to have a policy, and have it clearly stated. They need to first ask for volunteers. They need to offer some compensation to see if they can get people to volunteer. If they don't get enough volunteers, they need to have an established policy as to who they involuntarily bump. Once they do that, I'm pretty sure it's all "legal."

 

[Handyman]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

And again, I dont care if it was legal or not. It was bad business and they are paying for it. As they flipping should. You reap what you sow. This ranks up there with businesses that take a stance on gay marriage or abortion or something then cant handle getting protested over it. You have the right to take a stand, but people have a right to dislike you for it.

 

[joecct]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

You can't be prosecuted for exercising your 1st Amendment rights. However, you can be persecuted.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Nice Planet 13: This Planet Sucks

And again, I dont care if it was legal or not. It was bad business and they are paying for it. As they flipping should. You reap what you sow. This ranks up there with businesses that take a stance on gay marriage or abortion or something then cant handle getting protested over it. You have the right to take a stand, but people have a right to dislike you for it.

Legality is determined by campaign bribes. Morality is determined by all of us acting in concert.

UAL can go f-ck themselves.