NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Under my scenario? No. If the first team scores, the opposing team gets one possession and then they are forced to score a TD.

Also, one amendment to my first suggestion: If the game clock hits 0:00 in OT, and one team has kicked a field goal but not scored again, they win. Example: Colts and Bills go to OT at 13-13. Bills kick a FG in the first possession. No one else scores and OT runs out. Bills win 16-13, even though they didn't score 4+ points in OT.

In the NFL version is it a tie if time runs out and only one field goal was scored?

 

[ajoyce02]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

My next question about this rule change, who is going to explain it to McNabb?

 

[Hammer]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

In the NFL version is it a tie if time runs out and only one field goal was scored?

I don't think so. At least I hope not. 16=13 would really make things hell for Simple Math.

 

[French Rage]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Heh: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/23/tebows-pre-wonderlic-prayer-request-falls-flat/

Per a league source, after the person administering the test to Tebow's group had finished, Tebow made a request that the players bow their heads in prayer before taking the 50-question exam.

Said one of the other players in response: "Shut the f--k up." Others players in the room then laughed.

 

[GreatLakerMohawk]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Personally, I hate this new rule. Don't want to lose on the first possession? Play defense. It's that simple.

That's always been my point of view. If you don't find it to be fair, then stop the other team from moving the football. Football isn't just about offense.

I will laugh though at the first game that ends in OT on a returned kick off.

"BUT ITS NOT FAIR!!!!"

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

The rule is pretty simple, I think.

Same sudden death rules apply. But if the first possession results in a safety or field goal, the other team gets one possession to regain the lead. If the other team ties on the second possession, normal sudden death rules apply.

Truthfully, I don't see how that is so complicated. Although I'm assuming that there's a correlation between those folks and the "you can't have a tie game!" folks.

As for GLM's point... yeah, I can buy that. But the way the game is called these days, you're usually just one bad pass interference call away from putting a team in easy field goal range.

 

[ajoyce02]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

That's always been my point of view. If you don't find it to be fair, then stop the other team from moving the football. Football isn't just about offense.

I will laugh though at the first game that ends in OT on a returned kick off.

"BUT ITS NOT FAIR!!!!"

I don't know about you, but I'm surprised at how outnumbered I am by so many people on this topic. Maybe my thought process just isn't up to modern standards.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Heh: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/23/tebows-pre-wonderlic-prayer-request-falls-flat/

I wonder if he realizes that if he's in the NFL, he'll have to work on Sundays.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

The rule is pretty simple, I think.

Same sudden death rules apply. But if the first possession results in a safety or field goal, the other team gets one possession to regain the lead. If the other team ties on the second possession, normal sudden death rules apply.

Truthfully, I don't see how that is so complicated. Although I'm assuming that there's a correlation between those folks and the "you can't have a tie game!" folks.

As for GLM's point... yeah, I can buy that. But the way the game is called these days, you're usually just one bad pass interference call away from putting a team in easy field goal range.

I was under the impression that if a safety is scored the game is over.

 

[unofan]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

I was under the impression that if a safety is scored the game is over.

Correct.

 

[GreatLakerMohawk]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

I don't know about you, but I'm surprised at how outnumbered I am by so many people on this topic. Maybe my thought process just isn't up to modern standards.

It's stunning to me really but there's got to be something we're missing here... Somewhere. Of course, a lot of folks want to see something like college's OT too and that's a joke.

 

[CLS]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

ajoyce02 and GLM, not trying to be argumentative here, but like you don't undertand our point of view, I don't understand yours. Would you be OK if MLB changed the extra innings rule so that if the visitors got a run in the top of an extra inning, the game is over? After all, you could say "Don't want to lose in the top of the inning? Pitch and play defense. It's that simple."

I understand that the comparison isn't exact; in baseball one team can't score, but in football, the team with possession is much more likely to score. Football is much closer to baseball than it is to sports like hockey or lax, where there is a way to start an overtime in a way in which both teams have a relatively even chance to score (or perhaps more precisely in which who gets the first possession is determined by the players' skill and not by a coin flip). Those are situations in which true sudden death makes the most sense.

 

[GreatLakerMohawk]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

ajoyce02 and GLM, not trying to be argumentative here, but like you don't undertand our point of view, I don't understand yours. Would you be OK if MLB changed the extra innings rule so that if the visitors got a run in the top of an extra inning, the game is over? After all, you could say "Don't want to lose in the top of the inning? Pitch and play defense. It's that simple."

I understand that the comparison isn't exact; in baseball one team can't score, but in football, the team with possession is much more likely to score. Football is much closer to baseball than it is to sports like hockey or lax, where there is a way to start an overtime in a way in which both teams have a relatively even chance to score (or perhaps more precisely in which who gets the first possession is determined by the players' skill and not by a coin flip). Those are situations in which true sudden death makes the most sense.

Unlike in football, baseball isn't sudden death OT and that comparison is a non-starter to begin with since the home team always gets last ups. Since baseball isn't played that way, it's kind of silly to create a situation that has never existed in order to draw a comparison.

Just having possession in football doesn't make it automatic to score. The defense has a job to do too, if they succeed at it, they give their offense a chance to score, sometimes with great field position in the process. It's always been my argument that offense isn't the only thing played in football and that if you're meant to win a game, both offense and defense have to do their job (never mind special teams as well). Just winning a coin toss doesn't guarantee squat if your offense gets stuffed out by the opposing defense.

With this half-arse solution to fixing overtime, why don't they just outlaw field goals and say you have to put someone down in the end zone to win it? Touchdowns or a safety apparently wins the game so hey, why not?

 

[CLS]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

. . . Just having possession in football doesn't make it automatic to score. The defense has a job to do too, if they succeed at it, they give their offense a chance to score, sometimes with great field position in the process. It's always been my argument that offense isn't the only thing played in football and that if you're meant to win a game, both offense and defense have to do their job (never mind special teams as well). Just winning a coin toss doesn't guarantee squat if your offense gets stuffed out by the opposing defense.

OK, so you're saying that because there is no guarantee that the team that wins the coin toss will win, and apparently because the kicking team can do something to negate the advantage of initial possession that giving both teams a possession isn't necessary. Is that right? Or are you arguing that initial possession isn't an advantage at all?

And the argument on the other side is that initial possession is a significant advantage that a team has on the basis of a coin flip, and because kicking a field goal is perceived as being too easy, it is necessary to give both teams a possession.

With this half-arse solution to fixing overtime, why don't they just outlaw field goals and say you have to put someone down in the end zone to win it? Touchdowns or a safety apparently wins the game so hey, why not?

No disagreement here, other than that this would take placekicking out the the game completely, and that there probably would be a lot of games that take very long to decide, which is a player safety problem with a sport like football.

OK, I'm disengaging. Thanks for replying.

 

[GreatLakerMohawk]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

OK, so you're saying that because there is no guarantee that the team that wins the coin toss will win, and apparently because the kicking team can do something to negate the advantage of initial possession that giving both teams a possession isn't necessary. Is that right? Or are you arguing that initial possession isn't an advantage at all?

And the argument on the other side is that initial possession is a significant advantage that a team has on the basis of a coin flip, and because kicking a field goal is perceived as being too easy, it is necessary to give both teams a possession.

Of course winning the coin toss is an advantage unless you have a beastly defense then you may not mind. Having some control of whether you can win the game is preferable. My argument against those saying that the OT period is unfair has always been that if you don't want the coin toss to be the reason for the outcome... Play better defense.

If your team is going to get dinked and dunked into field goal territory then losing via something like a field goal is rather appropriate.

 

[ajoyce02]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Unlike in football, baseball isn't sudden death OT and that comparison is a non-starter to begin with since the home team always gets last ups. Since baseball isn't played that way, it's kind of silly to create a situation that has never existed in order to draw a comparison.

Just having possession in football doesn't make it automatic to score. The defense has a job to do too, if they succeed at it, they give their offense a chance to score, sometimes with great field position in the process. It's always been my argument that offense isn't the only thing played in football and that if you're meant to win a game, both offense and defense have to do their job (never mind special teams as well). Just winning a coin toss doesn't guarantee squat if your offense gets stuffed out by the opposing defense.

With this half-arse solution to fixing overtime, why don't they just outlaw field goals and say you have to put someone down in the end zone to win it? Touchdowns or a safety apparently wins the game so hey, why not?

What he said, I can't say it much better than that.

And I actually understand why people might want a rule change, but I just think it's stupid. What surprises me is the number of people who support this change. I thought I heard a stat somewhere (though I can't seem to find it right now) that the % of teams who win on the first possession isn't that much greater than one might expect.

Maybe a numbers wonk can do some research magic, I just don't have time to dig it up right now.

 

[French Rage]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

What he said, I can't say it much better than that.

And I actually understand why people might want a rule change, but I just think it's stupid. What surprises me is the number of people who support this change. I thought I heard a stat somewhere (though I can't seem to find it right now) that the % of teams who win on the first possession isn't that much greater than one might expect.

Maybe a numbers wonk can do some research magic, I just don't have time to dig it up right now.

A lot of people like to bring up that the team winning the flip wins 60% of the time, but they ignore that it's only like %35 on the first possession and the rest of the 60% is on successive possessions, and frankly if both teams have already had the ball once I could care less at that first.

I'm not crazy about the current rule, I'm on the side of having another mini-quarter that goes to the end, but this rule makes it more complicated and convoluted than it needs to be.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Yeah it's something like 30 something percent of teams that get the ball first and drive down the field and win right away.

 

[ajoyce02]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Yeah, 60% is one of the numbers quoted (in fact I found it cited in an ESPN.com article) but that sounds about right on the first-possession winners.

30% just doesn't seem to be that many to warrant a change in the rule, it tells me more often than not there are at least 2 possessions (or a QB who fumbles and it's returned for a TD by the defense, I'm looking at you Aaron Rodgers).

There is really no point in me arguing about it, I can't do anything to change it. I just think it's stupid.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Re: NFL Offseason: The Saints won the Superbowl, and are now Marchin on to the NFL Draft.

Yeah, 60% is one of the numbers quoted (in fact I found it cited in an ESPN.com article) but that sounds about right on the first-possession winners.

30% just doesn't seem to be that many to warrant a change in the rule, it tells me more often than not there are at least 2 possessions (or a QB who fumbles and it's returned for a TD by the defense, I'm looking at you Aaron Rodgers).

There is really no point in me arguing about it, I can't do anything to change it. I just think it's stupid.

30% is a huge amount. 3 out of 10 games the other team never touches the ball. That's gigantic.

What if they did something like during overtime the kicker kicked from the 40?

Most likely touchback city, and they get the ball at the 20.