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NFL 2019-20: The Patriots Are A Terrible 11-3 Team!

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The Sicatoka said:
Didn't say it was great, but it'd get rid of silly "false start" DQs.
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I'm surprised they don't have the technology to instantly post the penalty per runner and then just let them run. Let's say you get penalized 5x the amount of time you go early. So if you go .00001 whatevs, but if you go .1 you've blown the race.
 
The Sicatoka said:
But then we'd have race results of "X.XXX seconds including YY milliseconds of early start penalty*".
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No, we'd just have X.XXX seconds, full stop. Just like an auto race where you assess penalties.

I have a dumb question about wind aided. Wouldn't wind be a wash? The course is biaxially symmetrical -- so anything you pick up at x you lose at pi minus x. So why does it matter? Or is it varying winds that matter?
 
Kepler said:
No, we'd just have X.XXX seconds, full stop. Just like an auto race where you assess penalties.

I have a dumb question about wind aided. Wouldn't wind be a wash? The course is biaxially symmetrical -- so anything you pick up at x you lose at pi minus x. So why does it matter? Or is it varying winds that matter?
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For anything under 400m you’re not running the full track so it’s possible for the entire race to be in headwind or tailwind. Same with the run up for the long jump and triple jump.
 
Kepler said:
No, we'd just have X.XXX seconds, full stop. Just like an auto race where you assess penalties.

I have a dumb question about wind aided. Wouldn't wind be a wash? The course is biaxially symmetrical -- so anything you pick up at x you lose at pi minus x. So why does it matter? Or is it varying winds that matter?
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Anything with full laps, you're correct.

The 100, 200, 110 hurdles, long jump, triple jump, javelin, etc. are straight or nearly straight runs, so the wind affects them.

And wind aided doesn't nullify an attempt/race in terms of placement, it just prevents the setting of official new records if the wind is too strong in their favor.
 
unofan said:
Anything with full laps, you're correct.

The 100, 200, 110 hurdles, long jump, triple jump, javelin, etc. are straight or nearly straight runs, so the wind affects them.

And wind aided doesn't nullify an attempt/race in terms of placement, it just prevents the setting of official new records if the wind is too strong in their favor.
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Thanks.
 
Kepler said:
Yuck. That seems like throwing away the race in order to rationalize the records. Gross.
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It would be just like ski racing: the racers go solo and they can start whenever they want - their actual starts trigger the clock.

Not a fan. I understand it, but not a fan.
 
LynahFan said:
It would be just like ski racing: the racers go solo and they can start whenever they want - their actual starts trigger the clock.

Not a fan. I understand it, but not a fan.
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But you do that for skiing because 2 guys on a course will kill each other.
 
The rules are exactly the same for every single runner, and have been that way for a very long time. Sucks that he broke the rule by such a little amount, but he signed up to run the race based on those exact rules.

And I'm totally against the idea of sprint races becoming some kind of time trial- the race is about the whole part- not just who is the fastest- it's who can run the best race.

Drag racing is the same way- it's not the driver with the lowest ET or highest speed- it's who crosses the line first.

It's a shame, sure. But I'm betting he understands the rule, and accepts the outcome. And I'm fine with that.
 
MichVandal said:
The rules are exactly the same for every single runner, and have been that way for a very long time. Sucks that he broke the rule by such a little amount, but he signed up to run the race based on those exact rules.

And I'm totally against the idea of sprint races becoming some kind of time trial- the race is about the whole part- not just who is the fastest- it's who can run the best race.

Drag racing is the same way- it's not the driver with the lowest ET or highest speed- it's who crosses the line first.

It's a shame, sure. But I'm betting he understands the rule, and accepts the outcome. And I'm fine with that.
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Yeah screw him, he's in total control of the exact number of hundredths of seconds in which he reacts.
 
French Rage said:
Yeah screw him, he's in total control of the exact number of hundredths of seconds in which he reacts.
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I'm not being that harsh, but indeed he is. It's something they spend a lot of time practicing.

How do you define a false start and not have someone be 0.001 second off of that as some point? You can't say 0.100 +- 0.01, because that really means 0.090, and then 0.089 becomes the line to cross. It's terrible to be *that* close- but, again, they ALL signed up to run the race and compete knowing these are the rules.
 
MichVandal said:
I'm not being that harsh, but indeed he is. It's something they spend a lot of time practicing.

How do you define a false start and not have someone be 0.001 second off of that as some point? You can't say 0.100 +- 0.01, because that really means 0.090, and then 0.089 becomes the line to cross. It's terrible to be *that* close- but, again, they ALL signed up to run the race and compete knowing these are the rules.
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Unfortunately, these rules are based on a flawed study and it's results.

(Also, this guys' YouTube channel is phenomenal)
 
Jimjamesak said:
Unfortunately, these rules are based on a flawed study and it's results.

(Also, this guys' YouTube channel is phenomenal)
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If you think about it long enough, that is irrelevant. It's just a number that is close to human reactions. Move it to the actual study, and once someone gets DQd by 0.001 seconds, then the standard deviation in the study will need to be part of it. And the closer you get to the natural reaction time, the more likely you will get runners trying to guess the time.

The start is something they practice a HUGE amount, and for professionals, making it 0.1000 seconds is pretty clearly possible and very likely. A gross majority of competitors don't false start, afterall.

If the runners universally had a problem with 0.100 seconds, let them take care of it. Otherwise, they fully accept the time and the consequences.
 
MichVandal said:
If you think about it long enough, that is irrelevant. It's just a number that is close to human reactions. Move it to the actual study, and once someone gets DQd by 0.001 seconds, then the standard deviation in the study will need to be part of it. And the closer you get to the natural reaction time, the more likely you will get runners trying to guess the time.

The start is something they practice a HUGE amount, and for professionals, making it 0.1000 seconds is pretty clearly possible and very likely. A gross majority of competitors don't false start, afterall.

If the runners universally had a problem with 0.100 seconds, let them take care of it. Otherwise, they fully accept the time and the consequences.
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I'd think you let the runners set their own rules, they're the only ones who actually know anything from doing it, and they're the ones who will have the most at stake preserving fairness and sanity.
 
Slap Shot said:
Have DQs at the start suddenly become an epidemic? If not and the rules are clearly understood by all involved...
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It's not uncommon...

Back when I ran in high school (1999-2003), the big thing on the international level was charging ANY false start in the field to EVERYONE and then a 2nd being a DQ... The thinking was that me, being the slower runner, could try and time the gun. There would be no consequences for me to jump... And maybe play some head games with the faster people and cause them to sit on the 2nd start...

It's something that has always been on the minds of people...
 
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