Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

[bakdraft21]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

they got 2 schools last yr and 2 this yr............whos the 2 next yr???

 

[OZFEST]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

I understand the Lil Ponies being subjected to rules and regs of what ISS SUNY has put together, but Neumann being a private school am I to understand they violated their own grant program or what was granted beyond what the NCAA allows?

Either way I just want to say NO CANADIANS FOR YOU!

 

[Pioneers#1]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

At this point, I just want to see Utica win the EcacWest for the First time in program history.

With the NCAA Tournament, we'd get screwed anyways as usual with all the bias that goes around.

 

[vcxc3200]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

Norwich, Plattsburgh, Oswego, River Falls, Castleton are probably all in before Utica and thats if Utica can sweep the remainder of the season. You might even have to consider SNC out west as well. So you have Norwich/Castleton, Plattsburgh/Oswego, and maybe even River Falls/SNC? If there are no upsets in those brackets there are your three Pool C bids. Sorry I don't forsee the ECAC West getting a bid. Not only that, Utica has to still play Neumann...you know that team Utica is 1-8-1 vs in the last 10 games....and two more games with Elmira. I could easily see Utica with 2-3 more losses. A 17-8 Utica team. Same with Elmira, they could easily have 6-8 losses, those Brockport and Geneseo losses will bite them. Had they won those games I could see Elmira in discussions with a Castleton/Plattsburgh for a Pool C. Hobart will lose too many more. Manhatanville...just like Elmira...Western NE and Weslyan loss...and 6 of their 9 left on the road...good luck...no and Neumann.......no.....

Compare that with Oswego's, Plattsburgh's, Norwich's, and Castleton's schedule I can only see those teams losing max 3 more games, including the playoff's. You also have a 2 loss Amherst team and 1 loss Williams team out there in a pretty weak NESCAC this year.

I think the ECAC West is too close for any team to run the table. They would send a competitive team, but I'm not sure they will be one of the best remaining teams when it comes time for Pool C bids.

And it's certainly a realistic possibility that what i described doesnt happen, we lose another 3-4 games, and thus we're out of the discussion for another year. That's certainly very real as well. It's a tightrope situation, to be sure.

But, i do like the conditions Utica is up against relative to who they're playing and where. A Neumann team that Utica played to a one goal loss at the iceworks now has to come to the aud twice, that's huge. Hobart's beatable if business is taken care of, and I think Utica will be more apt to beat manhattanville on a wider sheet of ice, and lord knows which m'ville shows up that game. Point being, relative to others, i like this schedule. although it may or may not be enough. with teams like castleton playing the way they're playing, getting a bid in the east just got even tougher because the ECAC-E is guaranteed to eat up a Pool C unless either Norwich or Castleton goes into collapse mode.

There's 3 games that really are making me sweat more than others, Tomorrow night vs. Elmira, the return trip to the ice casino, and the trip to the thunderdomes. Particularly the last one. Utica has NEVER played well in that building, and Heenan has yet to figure it out. He's even gone so far as to adjust off ice conditions such as what the boys are eating, where they stay, and what route the bus takes. It's slightly insane but if nothing else has worked yet....

We'll see what tomorrow brings. To be honest, i'll know a lot more about our chances after round two with Elmira tomorrow night. Anybody coming out to the game?

 

[vcxc3200]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

I understand the Lil Ponies being subjected to rules and regs of what ISS SUNY has put together, but Neumann being a private school am I to understand they violated their own grant program or what was granted beyond what the NCAA allows?

Either way I just want to say NO CANADIANS FOR YOU!

...Says the guy who has twenty three of them

 

[NUProf]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

Not quite.

Last year, only Potsdam was on probation. Buffalo State and Geneseo were on probation the year before.

Last year, Potsdam would not have made the playoffs anyway, probation or not. They finished eighth. Morrisville finished fifth. Morrisville was in no matter what.

The year before, Morrisville finished seventh, out of the playoff picture, and Buffalo State finished last. However since Geneseo finished fourth, Morrisville got in. That was the year Morrisville nearly upset Oswego in the semifinals after upsetting Fredonia in the play-in round.

I had the year wrong. I lose track of the "other" teams in the SUNYAC. I keep thinking it is a two team league.

 

[collegehcky2]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

At this point, I just want to see Utica win the EcacWest for the First time in program history.

With the NCAA Tournament, we'd get screwed anyways as usual with all the bias that goes around.

Yeah, totally.

 

[KnightsOfTheRound]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

I understand the Lil Ponies being subjected to rules and regs of what ISS SUNY has put together, but Neumann being a private school am I to understand they violated their own grant program or what was granted beyond what the NCAA allows?

Either way I just want to say NO CANADIANS FOR YOU!

Its because the Canadian grant awards went disproportionately to student athletes (the article claims all but one went to hockey players), such that they became de facto athletic scholarships, which is obviously forbidden. Public or private, all Division III schools need to play by the same rules regarding athletic scholarships.

And yeah, I wonder which two schools will be sanctioned next year.

 

[ncaacdn]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

Posts:102Re: Potsdam Penalized by NCAA for Violating Financial Aid Rules

"Would it not be easier for "border" teams to keep this ratio in balance than teams more distant to the Canadian border? I would think more canadian students would be inclined to enroll at Potsdam than say Cortland.

I also know that the ncaa is investigating one ECAC W school for simular infractions and I have heard rumors that they are investigating atleast one more. "

These schools have know about this investigation for some time now, If I had heard about this in early 2011 I'm sure the schools knew what was going on as well.

I've been told that in Neumann's case last year they gave all the Canadian Students two options:

1- Keep the CISIG award and continue their education but give up their spot on their team or;
2- Pay the CISIG award back and continue to play their choosen sport.

It is my understaning that CISIG award has been eliminated and reading the NCAA ruling under Penalties Neumann may still have the right to post-season play as long as no-one is using the CISIG award and since this award no is no longer in existence is it possible they still have a shot at post season play? Maybe I misread the information and someone can point it out to me where it says different than how I interpret the findings.

If they are a bubble team I think they are toast however if they finish strong and are eligible for they playoffs and they win the ECAC W they will be a tournament team.

 

[jerrynu26]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

I've been told that in Neumann's case last year they gave all the Canadian Students two options:

1- Keep the CISIG award and continue their education but give up their spot on their team or;
2- Pay the CISIG award back and continue to play their choosen sport.

It is my understaning that CISIG award has been eliminated and reading the NCAA ruling under Penalties Neumann may still have the right to post-season play as long as no-one is using the CISIG award and since this award no is no longer in existence is it possible they still have a shot at post season play? Maybe I misread the information and someone can point it out to me where it says different than how I interpret the findings.

If they are a bubble team I think they are toast however if they finish strong and are eligible for they playoffs and they win the ECAC W they will be a tournament team.

No, the NCAA handed out a post-season ban. It has nothing to do with what they might, or might not, have out for financial awards this year. They can still win the ECAC-West, but they may not participate in any NCAA tournament this year. In fact, if Neuman wins the ECAC-West, it might mean that no ECAC-West team goes on. (Depending on the other members won-loss, SOS, and OOC).

 

[KnightsOfTheRound]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

No, the NCAA handed out a post-season ban. It has nothing to do with what they might, or might not, have out for financial awards this year. They can still win the ECAC-West, but they may not participate in any NCAA tournament this year. In fact, if Neuman wins the ECAC-West, it might mean that no ECAC-West team goes on. (Depending on the other members won-loss, SOS, and OOC).

The year that Geneseo and Potsdam were sanctioned they were barred from the SUNYAC tournament, presumably for this very reason. Is there some reason the conference wouldn't bar Neumann this year?

 

[LakerEagleLover]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

The year that Geneseo and Potsdam were sanctioned they were barred from the SUNYAC tournament, presumably for this very reason. Is there some reason the conference wouldn't bar Neumann this year?

...perhaps because it makes too much sense...? Why let a team who can't move on to the dance play at the risk of no one going....smh

 

[norm1909]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

The year that Geneseo and Potsdam were sanctioned they were barred from the SUNYAC tournament, presumably for this very reason. Is there some reason the conference wouldn't bar Neumann this year?

The SUNYAC has an autobid, so I'm certain they wouldn't have wanted to give it up. The ECAC-West on the otherhand is, as Jerrynu26 is unlikely to be effected - i.e. if the ECAC-West can't field a team with a better "won-loss, SOS, and OOC" than Neumann then they are unlikely to get an at large bid anyway.

 

[ncaacdn]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

If they are banned from post season play that will include both conference and NCAA tournaments, however;

In the report Section C Penalties Part 4 it states:

•Effective immediately, any of the institution's athletics teams whose rosters include one or more students receiving Canadian International Student Initiative Grants and whose regular season performance affects playoff eligibility or seeding (e.g. ice hockey, soccer) shall end their seasons with the playing of their last regular season contest and shall not be eligible to participate in any postseason competition, including conference tournaments and NCAA championships

Since none of the students are currently receiving this financial aid package (in the report it mentions that it is no longer being offered) could they still potentially be included in post season play?



I could not find on source that says they are banned outright for post season play. It appears they are only banned if they have one or more athletes using the CISIG award.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

No, the NCAA handed out a post-season ban. It has nothing to do with what they might, or might not, have out for financial awards this year. They can still win the ECAC-West, but they may not participate in any NCAA tournament this year. In fact, if Neuman wins the ECAC-West, it might mean that no ECAC-West team goes on. (Depending on the other members won-loss, SOS, and OOC).

I'm pretty sure the article reads that Neumann and Morrisville are barred from ALL postseason play.

That means conference and NCAA tournament.

 

[KnightsOfTheRound]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

The SUNYAC has an autobid, so I'm certain they wouldn't have wanted to give it up. The ECAC-West on the otherhand is, as Jerrynu26 is unlikely to be effected - i.e. if the ECAC-West can't field a team with a better "won-loss, SOS, and OOC" than Neumann then they are unlikely to get an at large bid anyway.

For years I remember the ECAC-West tournament winner got a de facto autobid. I haven't followed as closely the past few years to see whether that pattern is still true or not, but since being the tournament winner is such a feather in a team's cap shouldn't it make sense to bar Neumann anyway?

Edit: apparently the point is moot

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

For years I remember the ECAC-West tournament winner got a de facto autobid. I haven't followed as closely the past few years to see whether that pattern is still true or not, but since being the tournament winner is such a feather in a team's cap shouldn't it make sense to bar Neumann anyway?

Edit: apparently the point is moot

There has only been one occasion where the ECAC West Tournament winner did not make the NCAA Tournament. It was 2010 when Manhattanville beat Elmira in the finals, but was still left out and Elmira was in. Elmira beat Curry in the First Round at the Domes and then nearly beat Norwich in the Quarterfinals. Led 1-0 but Norwich tied it with 46 seconds left and then won it early in OT.

 

[ncaacdn]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

I'm pretty sure the article reads that Neumann and Morrisville are barred from ALL postseason play.

That means conference and NCAA tournament.

The USCHO article reads that way to me as well but when I read the the NCAA report it appears to be a conditional ban, hence why I am wondering if there is a chance that Neumann may still be eligible.

Who knows how this will affect the teams play and if they don't have a strong finish it really won't matter in the end.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

Utica has NEVER played well in that building, and Heenan has yet to figure it out. He's even gone so far as to adjust off ice conditions such as what the boys are eating, where they stay, and what route the bus takes. It's slightly insane but if nothing else has worked yet....

NEVER is incorrect.

They made out pretty well in this stretch.

Utica:6 Elmira:2 - Dec. 4, 2004
Utica:2 Elmira:0 - Jan. 20, 2006
Utica:1 Elmira:1 - Jan. 21, 2006
Utica:3 Elmira:1 - Nov. 4, 2006

3-0-1 in four games in a row at the Domes. The two middle games featured the best weekend performance by a goaltender I have ever seen in my 20 years watching college hockey when Adam Dekker absolutely played out of his dome to lead Utica to the three points that weekend. The three stars of the game were Adam Dekker's stick, Adam Dekker's blocker and Adam Dekker's glove.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Neumann and Morrisville sanctioned by NCAA, banned from postseason

The USCHO article reads that way to me as well but when I read the the NCAA report it appears to be a conditional ban, hence why I am wondering if there is a chance that Neumann may still be eligible.

Who knows how this will affect the teams play and if they don't have a strong finish it really won't matter in the end.

That's an interesting catch. Definitely intriguing.

Maybe our esteemed ECAC West reporter Scott Biggar or SUNYAC reporter Russell Jaslow can help us get to the bottom of this.