MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

[Stauber1]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

News out of Mpls. just keeps getting better and better all the time.

So now in addition to recruits bailing on the Gophers the Gophers now are bailing on them.

I don't know exactly how to take this. Fans have been crying for more blue-collar type players, and now that the coaching staff has seemingly adjusted their recruiting strategy to find the guys they think will fit best instead of simply the most talented, are fans going to begin criticizing them for that?
If you look at Walters' stats, this past season he put up 61pts but was also a -22. He was a -30 the year before.
We can't have it both ways.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

I don't know exactly how to take this. Fans have been crying for more blue-collar type players, and now that the coaching staff has seemingly adjusted their recruiting strategy to find the guys they think will fit best instead of simply the most talented, are fans going to begin criticizing them for that?
If you look at Walters' stats, this past season he put up 61pts but was also a -22. He was a -30 the year before.
We can't have it both ways.

I am a known "jump the gun" guy on most things and I probably have done so here. My apologies to my fellow posters.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

Who knocked you off the mountain? Those chowderheads, of course.

BC is the closest thing to a hockey dynasty right now. They won it all this year and in '08 plus were runner-up in '07 and '06. So four of the past five years, they've been 1st or 2nd in the nation - that's a hell of an accomplishment in this day and age where teams struggle just to maintain a roster with the NHL constantly raiding it. If either of our teams had done what they've done, I think we'd be talking **** to anyone within earshot too.

As for MN, it's really difficult to be arrogant about a team that has been so mediocre for three straight seasons. Hell, it's tough to feel anything positive about the program at all right now.

 

[brianvf]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

I am a known "jump the gun" guy on most things and I probably have done so here. My apologies to my fellow posters.

I don't think you necessarily jumped the gun with your sentiments on this one though. Walters had a very good season in the USHL, so asking him to play another year in the USHL while Lucia brings in a late addition player like Serratore instead makes no sense to me. Serratore had a decent year in the USHL, but not nearly as good as Walters.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

I don't think you necessarily jumped the gun with your sentiments on this one though. Walters had a very good season in the USHL, so asking him to play another year in the USHL while Lucia brings in a late addition player like Serratore instead makes no sense to me. Serratore had a decent year in the USHL, but not nearly as good as Walters.

Let's just say there is more here than meets the eye and leave it at that.

 

[Handyman]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

I don't think you necessarily jumped the gun with your sentiments on this one though. Walters had a very good season in the USHL, so asking him to play another year in the USHL while Lucia brings in a late addition player like Serratore instead makes no sense to me. Serratore had a decent year in the USHL, but not nearly as good as Walters.

They arent being brought in to fill the same roles, it isnt that hard to figure out. Plus as has been said on GPL it wasnt exactly a CIA secret Walters was going to be playing another year in the USHL...that isnt why he isnt coming.

Scooby jumped the gun...I understand why but there is way more than just the shadow of a story that is out there.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

So let me see if I have this straight.

• Lucia's son plays for the Gophers.

• Guentzel's son doesn't play for the Gophers, which no doubt causes rift in coaching staff.

• Guentzel leaves Gophers coaching staff.

• Air Force coach's son is brought in.

• Guentzel coaches Walters in Des Moines.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

So let me see if I have this straight.

• Lucia's son plays for the Gophers.

• Guentzel's son doesn't play for the Gophers, which no doubt causes rift in coaching staff.

• Guentzel leaves Gophers coaching staff.

• Air Force coach's son is brought in.

• Guentzel coaches Walters in Des Moines.

That's all correct but that's not the reason Walters is not coming to Minnesota.

 

[Skeeterman]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

That's all correct but that's not the reason Walters is not coming to Minnesota.

Is he coming at all, or just breathing hard?

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

I am a known "jump the gun" guy on most things and I probably have done so here. My apologies to my fellow posters.

IMO I don't think you jumped the gun here, but your apology shows a lot of class Scooby.

From the link report, it appears Ryan Walters was asked to be less of an agitator and more of a pure goal scorer. Jacob Cepis has a little of both and that doesn't seem to bother anyone. Hextall seems to do well with the combination. I can't imagine the gritty and successful Gopher teams of the past screening potential agitators that score goals (i.e. Pat Micheletti and a host of others). IMO I would rather see a guy like Ryan Walters agitating opponents and scoring goals than watching the typical small finesse guys get their butts kicked another season. Isn't that why they're bringing in Serratore and Larsen? Ryan Walters improved his game over last year and EXCELLED this season on a crappy team that has missed the playoffs for the two seasons he's played for them.

Furthermore, in reference to plus-minus stat for Walters, to begin with there is some disagreement as to the efficacy of this stat. Plus-minus is mainly used to measure defenders and forwards who play a defensive role. But it is directly affected by team performance and accurate comparisons can only be made by taking into consideration the defensive performances of the team as a whole. Des Moines has been seriously outscored for two seasons in a row and if one examines the same stats for other players, most of them have been "minus" for the last two seasons. That appears to be more of a coaching/team issue.

The fact is Lucia over recruited. Personally I'd like to see Walters play than Serratore.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

The fact is Lucia over recruited. Personally I'd like to see Walters play than Serratore.

It's not fair to compare the two. Serratore is basically a walk-on and is not going to expecting massive playing time unless it is earned while he is there with the Gophers.

The Walters situation is a classic more than meets the eye scenario and although I'd love to have his supposed goal scoring (see Hansen for why supposed) it sounds like both sides are probably sighing with relief that they found a way out.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

Whatever the truth actually is, the end result is it doesn't make MN look good. Even the offseasons after bad seasons have drama now.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

It's not fair to compare the two. Serratore is basically a walk-on and is not going to expecting massive playing time unless it is earned while he is there with the Gophers.

The Walters situation is a classic more than meets the eye scenario and although I'd love to have his supposed goal scoring (see Hansen for why supposed) it sounds like both sides are probably sighing with relief that they found a way out.

Serratore is not necessarily a walk on, they went after him. According his coach, the Gophers invested a lot of time looking and talking to him all last season. Lucia basically said on his last show, Serratore is being brought in for grit and grind.

"[The Minnesota coaching staff] said they needed a player like me," said Serratore. "They're looking for me to be a hard-working player and finish my checks."

My point is why waste a roster spot on another grinder when Walters has toughness and has at least proven he can also score goals in the USHL which is what this team needs. I think Walters has potential to beat a few guys out for a roster spot. I think you acquire as many potential goal scorers you can on the team for next season. I don't like the decision.

At the USHL team's post-season awards, Ryan Walters was named the fans' favorite player this past season.

Mike Guentzel said he liked Walters because he always played hard and was never intimidated. He also was the team's second leading scorer this season. That combination of grit and talent explains why Bucs fans voted for him.

 

[4four4]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

Serratore is not necessarily a walk on, they went after him. According his coach, the Gophers invested a lot of time looking and talking to him all last season. Lucia basically said on his last show, Serratore is being brought in for grit and grind.



My point is why waste a roster spot on another grinder when Walters has toughness and has at least proven he can also score goals in the USHL which is what this team needs. I think Walters has potential to beat a few guys out for a roster spot. I think you acquire as many potential goal scorers you can on the team for next season. I don't like the decision.

Lucia probably knows the Serratore kid a little better than Walters. Just a hunch.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

Whatever the truth actually is, the end result is it doesn't make MN look good. Even the offseasons after bad seasons have drama now.

I agree with you here. The drama around this team is ridiculous.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

IMO I don't think you jumped the gun here, but your apology shows a lot of class Scooby.

From the link report, it appears Ryan Walters was asked to be less of an agitator and more of a pure goal scorer. Jacob Cepis has a little of both and that doesn't seem to bother anyone. Hextall seems to do well with the combination. I can't imagine the gritty and successful Gopher teams of the past screening potential agitators that score goals (i.e. Pat Micheletti and a host of others). IMO I would rather see a guy like Ryan Walters agitating opponents and scoring goals than watching the typical small finesse guys get their butts kicked another season. Isn't that why they're bringing in Serratore and Larsen? Ryan Walters improved his game over last year and EXCELLED this season on a crappy team that has missed the playoffs for the two seasons he's played for them.

Furthermore, in reference to plus-minus stat for Walters, to begin with there is some disagreement as to the efficacy of this stat. Plus-minus is mainly used to measure defenders and forwards who play a defensive role. But it is directly affected by team performance and accurate comparisons can only be made by taking into consideration the defensive performances of the team as a whole. Des Moines has been seriously outscored for two seasons in a row and if one examines the same stats for other players, most of them have been "minus" for the last two seasons. That appears to be more of a coaching/team issue.

The fact is Lucia over recruited. Personally I'd like to see Walters play than Serratore.

I think in fairness to MN's program, this is happening all over. A recruit may not be happy with his situation, thinking that either the coaching staff has made committments it now can't/won't keep or anticipating playing time problems due to the addition of more recruits to fill the same roster spots. The recruit's family may get involved, raising alarms with the program. Or the program may have simply overrecruited, as you note.

Partys go their separate ways.

But at MN this is coming on top of a couple of seasons where expectations clearly haven't been met, and so it gets compounded on message boards and in the media.

Wasn't it just a couple of seasons ago the exact same discussion was had regarding Mike Eave's recruiting problems? Wisconsin seems to have found a way out of it.

 

[Handyman]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

My point is why waste a roster spot on another grinder when Walters has toughness and has at least proven he can also score goals in the USHL which is what this team needs. I think Walters has potential to beat a few guys out for a roster spot. I think you acquire as many potential goal scorers you can on the team for next season. I don't like the decision.

First of all they didnt tell him to get rid of his edge, they told him to stop running his mouth. Big difference. Second, that isnt the reason he isnt coming that is just what is said publically. Third, he would have completely screwed up the lockerroom and Lucia cant afford that this season. It isnt like he is Thomas Vanek, the positives don't outweigh the negatives and I cannot believe the level of criticism Lucia has taken over this because overall it is exactly what people have been asking for. Lucia didn't just bring in a guy because he had talent, he did his due diligence and saw what impact said recruit could have on the team as a whole. The only reason there is any drama is cause his dad went public with their side. Read into that what you will...

As someone who has called for Lucia's head since about November of last season, I can flat out say I am behind him 100% on this one.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

Lucia probably knows the Serratore kid a little better than Walters. Just a hunch.

Without a doubt. Reports I've read state that Lucia has known the whole Serratore clan since HS and still stays in touch with Frank at AF and Tom at BSU.

 

[Montelena]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

In the whole scheme of things when you net out what Serratore brings vs Walters it may not make a big difference. Walters will get you more offense but Serratore may give you a better defensive/grinder game and accept his role on a lower line more so than Walters.

It's tough to predict these things. For example, look at Anders Lee. Looks like Notre Dame is getting a gem after he was most likely available to a number of the top WCHA schools but wasn't pursued heavily.

Most likely Walters will end up very satisfied with his ultimate choice as he'll do a better job deciding on what is best for him. I think both sides win here.

 

[Stauber1]

Re: MN Golden Gopher 2010 Offseason Thread

Serratore is not necessarily a walk on, they went after him. According his coach, the Gophers invested a lot of time looking and talking to him all last season. Lucia basically said on his last show, Serratore is being brought in for grit and grind.



My point is why waste a roster spot on another grinder when Walters has toughness and has at least proven he can also score goals in the USHL which is what this team needs.

With all due respect, I think this is a fairly simplistic take on it all, and the kind of thinking Lucia has been criticized for. There are a lot of elements in hockey that make up a successful team, and I think it's fair to say MN are missing a few right now. Moreover, recruiting a freshman to fill an immediate goal scoring need doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless that freshman is a Phil Kessel or a Zach Parise. The time when a freshman really can fill an immediate need is when the kid is brought in and understands his role is to do nothing more than play very hard and disciplined, and to really push the guys ahead of him both for playing time and in practice.

I'm not even going to touch on the talk about Walters not getting on with current players, because I have zero knowledge about that. All I will say is that if the coaching staff has determined the attitude/mentality of the kid doesn't align with the program, who is in it, and how it is run...then thank god they figured that out before Walters was here on campus (for both parties).

And Just for the record, Walters only had 4 more goals than Serratore last season.

I'm with Handy on this one. It truly baffles me that people are getting worked up and criticizing Lucia over this when it is EXACTLY what fans have been crying for the past year and a half.