MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

[Priceless]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

I love living here in Boston. Or did I move to New York, I forget... Yankees/Sox 4 hour marathon on MLB Network yesterday, both ends of the day/night DH today (MLBN now, then FOX at 7:00) and we complete the four game series tomorrow on ESPN. Remind me, do they cancel the playoffs in Major League Baseball if BOTH the Yanks and the RedSox miss the post-season, since these seem to be the only two teams MLB promotes?

They like ratings. The other options for 7:00PM games are Braves-Phillies and Rangers-Twins. The Yankees and Red Sox both have a national following and the Yankees come in sporting the best record in the game. If these games didn't draw ratings, ESPN, FOX and MLBN would pick up other games. If you don't like it, stop watching. If enough people feel the same way, the networks will respond...

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

They like ratings. The other options for 7:00PM games are Braves-Phillies and Rangers-Twins. The Yankees and Red Sox both have a national following and the Yankees come in sporting the best record in the game. If these games didn't draw ratings, ESPN, FOX and MLBN would pick up other games. If you don't like it, stop watching. If enough people feel the same way, the networks will respond...

I have stopped watching. MLB and the networks have essentially turned me into a fan that will only watch my own team. It didn't used to be that way.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

I have stopped watching. MLB and the networks have essentially turned me into a fan that will only watch my own team. It didn't used to be that way.

I've got to say, I've never thought about it before, but I'm the exact same way. I used to be able to watch baseball regardless of who was playing. I just enjoyed the game.

Now? I've found I enjoy listening to the game on the radio, and only when the Twins are playing. (Or I'm driving through Wisconsin and Bob Uecker is calling a game.)

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

I have stopped watching. MLB and the networks have essentially turned me into a fan that will only watch my own team. It didn't used to be that way.

It wasn't that way with me either. Until the last few seasons when all the national networks show us only RedSox and Yankees games. I was a huge fan of the NBC or CBS game of the week on Saturday, or ESPN Sunday night baseball, for years and years. And I didn't just tune in to see the Phillies or the Dodgers (the two teams I have rooted for since about 1974), but whoever was playing. And now I do refuse to tune into ESPN or MLBN baseball telecasts whenever they show a Boston or a Yankees game, which means I generally do not watch their live telecasts.

As for why they show the Yankees, I get that. Biggest market, historically most successful franchise, and still winning with regularity in the 21st century. They have always been the measuring stick of baseball. But as a student of the history of the game and most things connected to it, I can assure anyone that the appeal of the Boston Red Sox was not always what ESPN tries to peddle. The birth of "Red Sox Nation" can be traced roughly to the transformation of ESPN from a network that brought us a then unprecedented amount of live sports to the hype and controversy generating machine they are now. I cannot point to a time when I didn't know of people all over rooting for the Yankees, but I certainly know a time when the only Red Sox fan I knew was my New England born and raised uncle.

 

[Priceless]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

It wasn't that way with me either. Until the last few seasons when all the national networks show us only RedSox and Yankees games. I was a huge fan of the NBC or CBS game of the week on Saturday, or ESPN Sunday night baseball, for years and years. And I didn't just tune in to see the Phillies or the Dodgers (the two teams I have rooted for since about 1974), but whoever was playing. And now I do refuse to tune into ESPN or MLBN baseball telecasts whenever they show a Boston or a Yankees game, which means I generally do not watch their live telecasts.

As for why they show the Yankees, I get that. Biggest market, historically most successful franchise, and still winning with regularity in the 21st century. They have always been the measuring stick of baseball. But as a student of the history of the game and most things connected to it, I can assure anyone that the appeal of the Boston Red Sox was not always what ESPN tries to peddle. The birth of "Red Sox Nation" can be traced roughly to the transformation of ESPN from a network that brought us a then unprecedented amount of live sports to the hype and controversy generating machine they are now. I cannot point to a time when I didn't know of people all over rooting for the Yankees, but I certainly know a time when the only Red Sox fan I knew was my New England born and raised uncle.

It's not like that now. "Red Sox Nation" is not simply a marketing ploy. If it was, the networks would stop showing Red Sox games because they wouldn't draw ratings. One reason the Cubs and Braves are so popular outside their regions is that WGN and WTBS carried games to a national audience until relatively recently. At about the same time, the Red Sox started to get good (winning two World Series) and a top 5 payroll. The Red Sox - with help from the ESPN hype machine certainly - filled the gap and became America's Team (coming back from 0-3 down against the Yankees didn't hurt). Now they - along with the Yankees - are the teams most people outside New England like to hate. That still means ratings. No one outside their markets gives a crap if the Twins, Royals, Padres, Marlins, Astros or a dozen other teams win or lose. People care very much if the Yankees or Red Sox lose, hence they watch. Sorry if you don't like it. I would rather Fox and ESPN stay away from the Sox because normally when they do a game that means it isn't on NESN. Most fans would rather hear Orsillo and Remy and watch Jenny Dell than whoever ESPN has in the booth or Buck, McCarver and Rosenthal. No offense to Ken, but Jenny is far easier on the eyes

 

[bronconick]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

I've got to say, I've never thought about it before, but I'm the exact same way. I used to be able to watch baseball regardless of who was playing. I just enjoyed the game.

Now? I've found I enjoy listening to the game on the radio, and only when the Twins are playing. (Or I'm driving through Wisconsin and Bob Uecker is calling a game.)

I don't even pay attention to teams outside of the AL Central. No one else matters for playoff positioning. I had to pull up the standings to see who was leading elsewhere. Well done, MLB.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

I don't even pay attention to teams outside of the AL Central. No one else matters for playoff positioning. I had to pull up the standings to see who was leading elsewhere. Well done, MLB.

Ditto.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

It's not like that now. "Red Sox Nation" is not simply a marketing ploy. If it was, the networks would stop showing Red Sox games because they wouldn't draw ratings. One reason the Cubs and Braves are so popular outside their regions is that WGN and WTBS carried games to a national audience until relatively recently. At about the same time, the Red Sox started to get good (winning two World Series) and a top 5 payroll. The Red Sox - with help from the ESPN hype machine certainly - filled the gap and became America's Team (coming back from 0-3 down against the Yankees didn't hurt). Now they - along with the Yankees - are the teams most people outside New England like to hate. That still means ratings. No one outside their markets gives a crap if the Twins, Royals, Padres, Marlins, Astros or a dozen other teams win or lose. People care very much if the Yankees or Red Sox lose, hence they watch. Sorry if you don't like it. I would rather Fox and ESPN stay away from the Sox because normally when they do a game that means it isn't on NESN. Most fans would rather hear Orsillo and Remy and watch Jenny Dell than whoever ESPN has in the booth or Buck, McCarver and Rosenthal. No offense to Ken, but Jenny is far easier on the eyes

Red Sox "nation" is as insufferable as it ever was. I remember back the year before they won the Series, it was great. I loved rooting for them. Now I wish nothing but ill will towards them. I find myself rooting for the Yankees to win just to shut the collective mouth of Red Sox "nation". And I HATE the Yankees.

 

[The Rube]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

Red Sox "nation" is as insufferable as it ever was. I remember back the year before they won the Series, it was great. I loved rooting for them. Now I wish nothing but ill will towards them. I find myself rooting for the Yankees to win just to shut the collective mouth of Red Sox "nation". And I HATE the Yankees.

I'm almost the same. I won't cheer for the Yanks or against the BoSox currently. The year they won the series, yeah, I cheered for the BoSox like crazy. It was a great story. Now? Don't care either way about the BoSox.

 

[Priceless]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

Red Sox "nation" is as insufferable as it ever was. I remember back the year before they won the Series, it was great. I loved rooting for them. Now I wish nothing but ill will towards them. I find myself rooting for the Yankees to win just to shut the collective mouth of Red Sox "nation". And I HATE the Yankees.

I'm almost the same. I won't cheer for the Yanks or against the BoSox currently. The year they won the series, yeah, I cheered for the BoSox like crazy. It was a great story. Now? Don't care either way about the BoSox.

Personally, I'd rather win a World Series or two than have you guys cheer for the Sox. More than a fair trade IMHO.

 

[The Rube]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

Personally, I'd rather win a World Series or two than have you guys cheer for the Sox. More than a fair trade IMHO.

I am still a fan of Danger Ortiz, but the Damon thing ******ed me off. Honestly, if you weren't cheering for the BoSox during that run, you kinda hated America. And don't worry, I'll stay a Twins/Cubs fan.

 

[bronconick]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

The Red Sox Nation thing is dumb because it doesn't really exist.

I have met two Boston fans in my 30 odd years in Michigan, one of which actually grew up in the northeast. I have met more Pirates and Phillies fans, to say nothing of Cubs/White Sox for obvious reasons. I've met dozens of Yankees fans, probably tainted by the fact that Derek Jeter grew up in Kalamazoo.

Being "America's Team" for two weeks in 2004 because everyone hates the other guy doesn't make you a "Nation." It makes you an earlier version of the Dallas Mavericks and Oklahoma City Thunder.

 

[Priceless]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

The Red Sox Nation thing is dumb because it doesn't really exist.

I have met two Boston fans in my 30 odd years in Michigan, one of which actually grew up in the northeast. I have met more Pirates and Phillies fans, to say nothing of Cubs/White Sox for obvious reasons. I've met dozens of Yankees fans, probably tainted by the fact that Derek Jeter grew up in Kalamazoo.

Being "America's Team" for two weeks in 2004 because everyone hates the other guy doesn't make you a "Nation." It makes you an earlier version of the Dallas Mavericks and Oklahoma City Thunder.

You may feel that way, but ratings disagree with you. And personal anecdotes don't prove jack. Again, if there was no such thing as "Red Sox Nation" and no one gave a crap whether the Sox won or lost, they'd broadcast something else. TV executives don't get paid for thinking of ways to pizz you off. They get paid for putting things on the air that get ratings. If things don't get ratings, they get taken off the air. That's the way it works.

Also, the Red Sox have a pretty good track record of road attendance, placing in the top 5 every year from 2001-2010 (including #1 in 2005, 07 and 08). So if you want to believe there's no such thing as Red Sox Nation, you go right ahead.

 

[The Rube]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

I think he's trying to say that the Red Sox fanbase didn't have an official "nickname" until the WS. That's what turned some people. Please, someone, correct me if I am wrong on this.

 

[Priceless]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

I think he's trying to say that the Red Sox fanbase didn't have an official "nickname" until the WS. That's what turned some people. Please, someone, correct me if I am wrong on this.

No, what he's saying is that the Red Sox aren't a national draw, which just isn't true.

 

[The Rube]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

No, what he's saying is that the Red Sox aren't a national draw, which just isn't true.

They are a national draw for the average fan, I suppose. Just like any other major city team (NY, TX, LA).

 

[jen]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

Red Sox "nation" is as insufferable as it ever was. I remember back the year before they won the Series, it was great. I loved rooting for them. Now I wish nothing but ill will towards them. I find myself rooting for the Yankees to win just to shut the collective mouth of Red Sox "nation". And I HATE the Yankees.

What grates are the fans that continue to play the "woe is us, nothing good ever happens to us" card and the "Yankees are big market" card, neither of which are still in their hands. Some fans are not happy unless they're complaining. And a lot of those people are also Celtics (2010), Bruins (2011) and Patriots (2005) fans, so it's kind of like Kate Moss going to a Weight Watchers meeting and complaining she's fat. People don't want to hear it, especially when they follow teams that have NEVER won.

As far as ESPN ruining baseball because of over-coverage of the Red Sox and Yankees - I have to wonder how much those people actually liked baseball to start with. The same thing happened to me after the Packers won the Super Bowl in 1997. Didn't like football after that, but realistically - I didn't like it that much to start with, if that's why I chose not to watch it.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

As far as ESPN ruining baseball because of over-coverage of the Red Sox and Yankees - I have to wonder how much those people actually liked baseball to start with. The same thing happened to me after the Packers won the Super Bowl in 1997. Didn't like football after that, but realistically - I didn't like it that much to start with, if that's why I chose not to watch it.

While I'm but one viewer, I love baseball, and ESPN/TBS/MLBN has ruined it for me.

For the most part, the only thing I want to watch on TV is live sports, and for as long as I can recall, I'd watch any baseball game. I still remember being thrilled in 1995 when I got a chance to watch a Cleveland/Seattle game, a pairing I had never seen before to that point. ESPN realized the quality TV to be had from a match-up of an up-and-coming 1st place Indians team playing in a great 2 year old stadium versus a Seattle team also in contention with a couple of the league's best players and biggest stars. Yet when the opportunity was there earlier this year for telecasts of Nationals games or Pirates games or other similar match-ups, TBS brings us another Boston game. It doesn't grow the sport.

Look at the short term thinking that sunk the NBA for years following the departures of Magic, Michael and Bird by 1993. A sport that had seen startling ratings growth in the 80s and early 90s suddenly found itself being caught by the NHL for a few years. One of the main reasons the NFL is as popular as it is, is the NFL spends as much time promoting the entire league as it does the current team of the year or individual players. They will find a way to hype the week 4 game between Minnesota and Detroit as much as they do the game 3 hours later between New Orleans and Green Bay.

I do not for a minute thing the following teams like the Royals or the Rockies possess in 2012 is the same as the one Boston currently has. But MLB makes it out that Boston is more popular than the other 28 teams not called the Yankees combined. That is wildly untrue. And I mainly lament it as a fan of baseball who wishes for a more well rounded presentation of the game in the media. And as a student of the game, I know the current popularity of the Red Sox does not reflect their following historically, nor does it mean it will be guaranteed to continue. When the Sox had arguably the greatest hitter in the history of the game, they were much like any of the (then) other 14 teams not called the Yankees. Their popularity reached about as far as either the local newspaper coverage or radio broadcasts traveled. It was the same for the Impossible Dream team in 1967, or Clemens first taste at post season play in 1986. Their current popularity is not because there have always been tons of Red Sox fans all over the map. It is because of effective marketing geared to how we watch sports in the 21st century.

 

[bronconick]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

What grates are the fans that continue to play the "woe is us, nothing good ever happens to us" card and the "Yankees are big market" card, neither of which are still in their hands. Some fans are not happy unless they're complaining. And a lot of those people are also Celtics (2010), Bruins (2011) and Patriots (2005) fans, so it's kind of like Kate Moss going to a Weight Watchers meeting and complaining she's fat. People don't want to hear it, especially when they follow teams that have NEVER won.

As far as ESPN ruining baseball because of over-coverage of the Red Sox and Yankees - I have to wonder how much those people actually liked baseball to start with. The same thing happened to me after the Packers won the Super Bowl in 1997. Didn't like football after that, but realistically - I didn't like it that much to start with, if that's why I chose not to watch it.

Meh, the thing with baseball is that my team plays 6 out of 7 days a week. 18-20 hours a week is plenty of any one sport, so if they expect me to give a rats' *** about other teams, they're going to have to work for it.

I have to combine my college and pro football days to reach that amount for football (which is why I occasionally bail on the NFL after the Sunday early games) and my personal hockey watching is skewed by the fact that I follow a team that starts 55-60 games at 10pm my time or later, so I'm probably more likely to catch parts of earlier games if available and I'm in a hockey mood.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: MLB 2012, Part 1 - It's here

Hey, the Red Sox and Yankees are on Sunday Night. Sweet! (says the Red Sox fan in FL).

*reads through thread

*slowly backs out of the room