What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

MLB 2010: The Second Half

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: MLB 2010: The Second Half

redwing77 said:
I don't know.

Are the Nationals modeled after the Chicago Cubs?
Click to expand...
No they are a classic Washington baseball team. First in war, first in peace, last in the National League.:D


It is very early in his career but with two DL stints this year it isn't the best start of a long and healthy career.
 
Re: MLB 2010: The Second Half

redwing77 said:
I don't know.

Are the Nationals modeled after the Chicago Cubs?
Click to expand...

RaceBoarder said:
Last I heard, Dusty Baker was destroying arms in the Cincy organization... That means Stras-Jesus should be ok...
Click to expand...

Yeah, but Riggleman is in Washington now. I think he preceeded Baker in Chicago.

This is a bad sign for Strasburg. Shut him down and continue his progression next season. Anything else is asking for trouble.
 
Re: MLB 2010: The Second Half

Lesson39.jpg
 
Re: MLB 2010: The Second Half

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=howard/100826

interesting article comparing clemens to pete rose.

since rose's career competely pre-dated me, do the people in real baseball circles honestly think he threw games?

i'm not so sure i buy the argument that gambling is worse than steroids because the impact is more guranteed. sure clemens could still give up homeruns and bonds could always strikeout, but rose's players could have overcome whatever managerial decisions he was making to make them lose, no?

i dont think its as cut and dry as say a basketball or soccer ref fixing a game. a manager has a much less direct impact than that obviously - and i would venture to say even a star player.
 
Re: MLB 2010: The Second Half

SteveF said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=howard/100826

interesting article comparing clemens to pete rose.

since rose's career competely pre-dated me, do the people in real baseball circles honestly think he threw games?

i'm not so sure i buy the argument that gambling is worse than steroids because the impact is more guranteed. sure clemens could still give up homeruns and bonds could always strikeout, but rose's players could have overcome whatever managerial decisions he was making to make them lose, no?

i dont think its as cut and dry as say a basketball or soccer ref fixing a game. a manager has a much less direct impact than that obviously - and i would venture to say even a star player.
Click to expand...

Gambling on a game, whether to win or lose a game, is the Ace of Spades of cheating. The reason it is that way is because it calls into question whether we are seeing actual competition, or something more akin to professional wrestling. Gambling tears at the basic fabric of competition. Once that is destroyed, the rest of the cheating isn't nearly as relevant, is it?

If gambling is the Ace of Spades, steroid use is more like the King or Queen of Hearts. It's still bad, but at least those who are juicing up don't leave any question of whether they're trying to compete.

I don't think Rose ever tried to lose a game. But if he only bet on games where he tried to win, what does that say about the games in which he did not bet at all? We're really going down a slippery slope here.

I reject the theory of a manager not having as much of an impact. The manager writes out the lineup card, and controls who pitches. That's a pretty significant effect on the game right there. He can hold a key player out under the guise of him needing a day off, or he can lift a pitcher a batter too early or too late, or since he was in the NL, lift a pitcher in the 5th for a pinch hitter while he's humming along with a 2-hitter in a 1-0 game.

Also, Pete Rose knew the rules about gambling. Those rules were in place for over 60 years before Rose started betting, and from what I understand those rules are clearly posted in every clubhouse, along with the consequences of violating such rules. He did the crime, now he's got to live with the punishment.
 
Last edited:
Re: MLB 2010: The Second Half

Stephen Strasburg is out for a long time. He needs Tommy John surgery and may be out for 2011. What a blow for the Nationals.

EDIT: Beat me to it, Hammer.
 
Re: MLB 2010: The Second Half

MountieBoyOz said:
Stephen Strasburg is out for a long time. He needs Tommy John surgery and may be out for 2011. What a blow for the Nationals.

EDIT: Beat me to it, Hammer.
Click to expand...
Also a blow to the Nationals: the fact that nobody else on their team is any good.

The point being, they weren't going to contend in 2011 anyway, even with a full season of a healthy Strasburg. At least now they know what their target date is.
 
Re: MLB 2010: The Second Half

jmh said:
Also a blow to the Nationals: the fact that nobody else on their team is any good.

The point being, they weren't going to contend in 2011 anyway, even with a full season of a healthy Strasburg. At least now they know what their target date is.
Click to expand...

But people with Tommy John Surgery take an extra year to become their old selves. So he could be back in 2012 but may not pitch well until 2013.


Poor Nationals...cannot catch a break. It is like the the curse of the Expos followed them and combined with the poor luck of being a baseball team in the nationals capital.
 
Re: MLB 2010: The Second Half

Dude Love said:
That sucks. Maybe they shouldn't have rushed a kid who only threw like 130 innings in a year before this.
Click to expand...

He only threw a whopping 123 innings this year between the minors and Washington, and probably wasn't going to push 160 innings on the year, had he stayed healthy. That's a natural progression.

However, inadvertently you do make a good point. You've got to keep the innings down on younger pitching, especially age 23 and under. People complain about babying these young arms, but go back and take a close look at the careers of Carlton, Koufax, Seaver, Bob Gibson and Nolan Ryan. Those arms didn't sniff 200 innings until at least 23, and in Ryan's case, age 25 (note: Ryan threw 202 IP as a 19-year-old in the minors in 1966). This idea that back in the day, we brought up 19 and 20 year old pitchers and they threw 250 innings a year for 20 years is complete hogwash. They kept the innings down on the arms at a young age, and then once they got closer to age 25, they turned them loose, and then and only then did you see the big IP totals. The kids 30 and 40 years ago that threw big inning totals at 21 and 22 blew their arms out just as fast as the kids do today.

That, and I wonder what a return to the 15-inch mound would do for the health of today's pitchers.
 
Last edited:
Re: MLB 2010: The Second Half

Hammer said:
He only threw a whopping 123 innings this year between the minors and Washington, and probably wasn't going to push 160 innings on the year, had he stayed healthy. That's a natural progression.

However, inadvertently you do make a good point. You've got to keep the innings down on younger pitching, especially age 23 and under. People complain about babying these young arms, but go back and take a close look at the careers of Carlton, Koufax, Seaver, Bob Gibson and Nolan Ryan. Those arms didn't sniff 200 innings until at least 23, and in Ryan's case, age 25 (note: Ryan threw 202 IP as a 19-year-old in the minors in 1966). This idea that back in the day, we brought up 19 and 20 year old pitchers and they threw 250 innings a year for 20 years is complete hogwash. They kept the innings down on the arms at a young age, and then once they got closer to age 25, they turned them loose, and then and only then did you see the big IP totals. The kids 30 and 40 years ago that threw big inning totals at 21 and 22 blew their arms out just as fast as the kids do today.

That, and I wonder what a return to the 15-inch mound would do for the health of today's pitchers.
Click to expand...

Actually, he's already thrown 145. :D You missed his AA innings it appears.
 
Re: MLB 2010: The Second Half

Okay. According to Baseball Reference, I saw 123 (68 in WSH + 55.1 in the minors). That's fine. That's still not completely out of line. He could have been capped and shut down before getting to 170.

Baseball Reference on Strasburg

The next one to watch could be Rick Porcello. 170 IP last year at age 20 + at least 149 combined this year at age 21.
 
Last edited:
Re: MLB 2010: The Second Half

Hammer said:
Okay. According to Baseball Reference, I saw 123 (68 in WSH + 55.1 in the minors). That's fine. That's still not completely out of line.

The next one to watch could be Rick Porcello.
Click to expand...

I agree. It's not out of line but with the added torque he's putting on his arm to pitch at the speeds he is, that magnifies each of those innings.
 
Re: MLB 2010: The Second Half

My mistake. The article I was reading referenced his minor league time as a whole and i double counted the AA. :o :o

My point is still applicable though. Pitching at the speeds he does puts that much more torque on his arm.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top