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Minnesota @ Wisconsin: Secondary Rivalry, Just As Much Hatred

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Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: Secondary Rivalry, Just As Much Hatred

JDUBBS1280 said:
Read the thread. We didn't start this. But I am not going to have a Badger hockey fan tell me what were and were not the biggest catalysts for the growth of Minnesota hockey.

I'm sorry the truth comes off as arrogance, but facts are facts.
Click to expand...

I originally posted without quoting the particular post I was referring to...I was not intending to refer to the entire line of discussion.
 
Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: Secondary Rivalry, Just As Much Hatred

In fact, I think Mariucci (the poster) even went out of his way to compliment the apparent changes to the Badger's recruiting philosophies (more in-state recruiting than past decades) and said that he hoped it brought the Badger program dividends in the future. Sounds real arrogant to me :rolleyes:
 
Gurtholfin said:
So you're going to stick with that most 5-6 year olds and their parents join (or joined back in the day) youth hockey because they believe (d) they could be a Gopher some day? Talk about stupid points...

Most kids who play youth hockey had parents who play (ed) hockey or have parents who were looking for a sport amongst many sports that their kid might enjoy.
Click to expand...

Again... We are talking 1950's and 60's.
 
Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: Secondary Rivalry, Just As Much Hatred

JDUBBS1280 said:
Read the thread. We didn't start this. But I am not going to have a Badger hockey fan tell me what were and were not the biggest catalysts for the growth of Minnesota hockey.

I'm sorry the truth comes off as arrogance, but facts are facts.
Click to expand...

Exactly

How many in this thread laughed at the idea Mariucci or the Gophs did not have a huge impact on Minnesota hockey. If saying I prefer the Sioux rivalry because of the level of respect and knowledge of the game than so be it, i'm arrogant.

btw, to the pole smoker who said my mother would be proud, she died the other day fk wad!!
 
Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: Secondary Rivalry, Just As Much Hatred

Gurtholfin said:
So you're going to stick with that most 5-6 year olds and their parents join (or joined back in the day) youth hockey because they believe (d) they could be a Gopher some day? Talk about stupid points...

Most kids who play youth hockey had parents who play (ed) hockey or have parents who were looking for a sport amongst many sports that their kid might enjoy.
Click to expand...

You know exactly what the discussion was/is about. Mariucci and the Gophs are the reason the sport is what it is in MN today.
 
Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: Secondary Rivalry, Just As Much Hatred

Again, a few of you are trying to take EVERYTHING hockey that has ever happened within your border and attach it to the Gophers and being a Gopher fan.

Being a fan/enthusiast for hockey in Minnesota is great. You have a lot to be proud of if that gets you off. But when Tom Gilbert comes in to play the Wild, it has NOTHING to do with the Gophers.

The Gopher program and Gopher fandom is separate and its accomplishments stand and are judged on their own. And those accomplishments are quite good. Just not as good as ours or your neighbor to the west.

There is no question that hockey is bigger and has a prouder tradition in the state of Minnesota than hockey in the state of Wisconsin. No one would argue that. But that's not a feather in the Gopher's cap any more than it is a negative on the Badgers.
 
JDUBBS1280 said:
At first there wouldn't be. You're right. And now you know why the Gophers struggled in the 1950's and 60's. However, they are in a MUCH better position today because of those struggles. That's what we are trying to explain to you, but you're too stubborn to listen.
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No, I'm "stubborn" because I find your conclusions to be highly speculative and presumptuous.

No way can you assume that WI would have turned into some version of what southern Minnesota became if Johnson focused on filling out his squads with mediocre leftover talent instead of looking outside to build teams that would actually win.

Plus, the list of local recruits missed out on by UW is pretty short.
 
Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: Secondary Rivalry, Just As Much Hatred

Gurtholfin said:
So you're going to stick with that most 5-6 year olds and their parents join (or joined back in the day) youth hockey because they believe (d) they could be a Gopher some day? Talk about stupid points...

Most kids who play youth hockey had parents who play (ed) hockey or have parents who were looking for a sport amongst many sports that their kid might enjoy.
Click to expand...

As has been said already we are talking about the past. Did you read the Brooks excerpt? Kinda goes against your point, doesn't it?

And I'm still waiting for your supporting argurments regarding your "myths" of hockey in Minnesota. You sort of left those out of your reply. Maybe by omission you are admitting how ridiculously stupid that statement was?
 
Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: Secondary Rivalry, Just As Much Hatred

JDUBBS1280 said:
Again... We are talking 1950's and 60's.
Click to expand...

So in the 50s and 60s, thousands of parents believed that their kids would be one of 8 or so kids per year that were chosen for the Gophers? I'm sure you'll produce some quote from the Hockey Bible that you keep referring to...

Believe me, while there are certainly parents that believe that little Johnny is the next big star, but there are many, many more who realize that little Johnny is just like dad and not going anywhere other than to a high school team some day. Do you really believe that all those parents, especially back then, were chasing a NCAA/NHL dream?
 
Gurtholfin said:
Again, a few of you are trying to take EVERYTHING hockey that has ever happened within your border and attach it to the Gophers and being a Gopher fan.

Being a fan/enthusiast for hockey in Minnesota is great. You have a lot to be proud of if that gets you off. But when Tom Gilbert comes in to play the Wild, it has NOTHING to do with the Gophers.

The Gopher program and Gopher fandom is separate and its accomplishments stand and are judged on their own. And those accomplishments are quite good. Just not as good as ours or your neighbor to the west.

There is no question that hockey is bigger and has a prouder tradition in the state of Minnesota than hockey in the state of Wisconsin. No one would argue that. But that's not a feather in the Gopher's cap any more than it is a negative on the Badgers.
Click to expand...

MY GOD! I can't explain it in any more simple terms than I already have. There are a lot of factors that made Minnesota Hockey (not the Gophers, Minnesota Hockey) what it is today. Arguably the biggest factor was the recruiting philosophies of John Mariucci. Without the in-state recruiting philosophy of John Mariucci, which was continued by Glen Sonmore, Herb Brooks, and Doug Woog (among others), Minnesota Hockey wouldn't be nearly as large and as deep as it is today.

Read the book. There are quotes from high school coaches, former players, and even an NHL commissioner with zero Minnesota ties that endorses this very fact.
 
Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: Secondary Rivalry, Just As Much Hatred

johnnypohlfan said:
And I'm still waiting for your supporting argurments regarding your "myths" of hockey in Minnesota. You sort of left those out of your reply. Maybe by omission you are admitting how ridiculously stupid that statement was?
Click to expand...

The whole point of that statement is/was that you guys are here spouting about how great your local talent is and how all of them want to be Gophers and how great the Gopher tradition is, but you have so little hardware (or at least less than others) to show for it. The "Myth" is that the Gophers are a greater program than us or the Sioux.

Again, Hockey in Minnesota is great. The Gophers are a solid program, but certainly not the greatest ever or most accomplished. And with the competitive advantages that you believe that you've had, you should be more accomplished.
 
Gurtholfin said:
Again, a few of you are trying to take EVERYTHING hockey that has ever happened within your border and attach it to the Gophers and being a Gopher fan.

Being a fan/enthusiast for hockey in Minnesota is great. You have a lot to be proud of if that gets you off. But when Tom Gilbert comes in to play the Wild, it has NOTHING to do with the Gophers.

The Gopher program and Gopher fandom is separate and its accomplishments stand and are judged on their own. And those accomplishments are quite good. Just not as good as ours or your neighbor to the west.

There is no question that hockey is bigger and has a prouder tradition in the state of Minnesota than hockey in the state of Wisconsin. No one would argue that. But that's not a feather in the Gopher's cap any more than it is a negative on the Badgers.
Click to expand...

It's a bit confusing that they can't separate the two. Recruiting in state means nothing when you don't have people to choose from. Minnesota may have grown in the post WWII years, but there are a LOT of reasons for that. And that's on top of the fact that the Iron Range was already producing a lot talent back then.

But whenever we don't give Mariucci all the credit for everything that ever happened, panties are twisted and we're being "ignorant" of the gophers' self-importance.
 
Gurtholfin said:
So in the 50s and 60s, thousands of parents believed that their kids would be one of 8 or so kids per year that were chosen for the Gophers? I'm sure you'll produce some quote from the Hockey Bible that you keep referring to...

Believe me, while there are certainly parents that believe that little Johnny is the next big star, but there are many, many more who realize that little Johnny is just like dad and not going anywhere other than to a high school team some day. Do you really believe that all those parents, especially back then, were chasing a NCAA/NHL dream?
Click to expand...

Yes. Kids in Minnesota aspired to A) play for their high school team and B) play for the Gophers one day. You still see some of that today, though not nearly as much. Shall I post a few recent articles on committed Gopher players to prove this point?
 
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Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: Secondary Rivalry, Just As Much Hatred

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
But whenever we don't give Mariucci all the credit for everything that ever happened, panties are twisted and we're being "ignorant" of the gophers' self-importance.
Click to expand...

Not only that, but we have to give him credit AS a Gopher and not just as an ambassador for the game.
 
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