Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

[AMC]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

I get it and pretty much agree with you. It was the same deal right before Semler left and Shawn took over. Look at the money that poured in once the success came. Not saying we can ever find another Shawn Walsh but it's worth taking a chance on some young assistant and maybe catch lightening in a bottle again. The rest would follow. At this point the program is just about beyond saving. It's a vicious cycle and like I said before they can do nothing and stay the course and watch the corpse rot or make a change.

I have no problem if the goal of the program is to be, on average, in the middle of the Hockey East pack. That's probably fair for what UMaine is. Some years, a little better and make the NCAAs. Some years, a little worse and be in the bottom four. That's fine.

But if that is the case, 1.) I'm not sure the investment is there for even THAT level of success and 2.) the administration needs to stop trying to pull cash out the nose of the paying customers. Ticket prices are outrageous, and priced like this is a perennial Frozen Four team. It isn't. Have some respect for your fans, it isn't our fault this is where the program is.

Maine is, right now, a bottom of the barrel HEA team in all respects. Talent, investment, facilities, you name it. The only way to improve that is structural changes within the athletic department. And not just cosmetic tinkering. Like, a complete reimagining of what athletics at UMaine should look like. That hasn't happened in a long, long time. Sitting down with a blank, white piece of paper and doing the math on what level of success can be achieved, at what cost, for what programs and going from there.

Look ahead ten years. What Hockey East teams do you think will have a less successful (in whatever respect you want) next ten years than Maine? Would you trade Maine's next 10 years straight up for Northeastern? UConn? Vermont? UMass? Merrimack? I think I would, for all of them. Maybe not UMass. But the rest, no question.

 

[Drew S.]

I have no problem if the goal of the program is to be, on average, in the middle of the Hockey East pack. That's probably fair for what UMaine is. Some years, a little better and make the NCAAs. Some years, a little worse and be in the bottom four. That's fine.

But if that is the case, 1.) I'm not sure the investment is there for even THAT level of success and 2.) the administration needs to stop trying to pull cash out the nose of the paying customers. Ticket prices are outrageous, and priced like this is a perennial Frozen Four team. It isn't. Have some respect for your fans, it isn't our fault this is where the program is.

Maine is, right now, a bottom of the barrel HEA team in all respects. Talent, investment, facilities, you name it. The only way to improve that is structural changes within the athletic department. And not just cosmetic tinkering. Like, a complete reimagining of what athletics at UMaine should look like. That hasn't happened in a long, long time. Sitting down with a blank, white piece of paper and doing the math on what level of success can be achieved, at what cost, for what programs and going from there.

Look ahead ten years. What Hockey East teams do you think will have a less successful (in whatever respect you want) next ten years than Maine? Would you trade Maine's next 10 years straight up for Northeastern? UConn? Vermont? UMass? Merrimack? I think I would, for all of them. Maybe not UMass. But the rest, no question.

I think before that happens the legislature and governor need to decide what role the school/entire system is going to play in the state. Ever since King left office the entire system has been rudderless as far as I can tell. We can blame Timmy and the various AD's for our predicament but it really goes farther back than that.

 

[AMC]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

I think before that happens the legislature and governor need to decide what role the school/entire system is going to play in the state. Ever since King left office the entire system has been rudderless as far as I can tell. We can blame Timmy and the various AD's for our predicament but it really goes farther back than that.

Agreed. I really don't even blame Timmy. I don't think there is a coach out there, right now, that could get UMaine to national prominence. Everything associated with the entire UMaine system is broken.

 

[ck1969]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

I think before that happens the legislature and governor need to decide what role the school/entire system is going to play in the state. Ever since King left office the entire system has been rudderless as far as I can tell. We can blame Timmy and the various AD's for our predicament but it really goes farther back than that.

Agreed. They need to dump every campus except Orono and maybe USM and invest the millions it would save back into the flagship. Machias, Augusta, Farmington, Presque Isle can all go away.

 

[AMC]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

Agreed. They need to dump every campus except Orono and maybe USM and invest the millions it would save back into the flagship. Machias, Augusta, Farmington, Presque Isle can all go away.

Maine needs a comprehensive higher ed. system. That involves multiple campuses. They just need to get rid of the redundancies. Keep Orono the flagship and have all the engineering there. Center USM more in Portland as the professional/business school. Teachers school in Farmington. Combine the Presque Isle and Fort Kent campuses and do nursing there. Some lower level basic ed. classes happen at each campus. If you want to get a liberal arts degree in Northern Maine, that's what NMCC is for.

There's no need for there to be six campuses offering a degree in political science.

 

[ck1969]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

Maine needs a comprehensive higher ed. system. That involves multiple campuses. They just need to get rid of the redundancies. Keep Orono the flagship and have all the engineering there. Center USM more in Portland as the professional/business school. Teachers school in Farmington. Combine the Presque Isle and Fort Kent campuses and do nursing there. Some lower level basic ed. classes happen at each campus. If you want to get a liberal arts degree in Northern Maine, that's what NMCC is for.

There's no need for there to be six campuses offering a degree in political science.

You can do all of that at Orono.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

I have no problem if the goal of the program is to be, on average, in the middle of the Hockey East pack. That's probably fair for what UMaine is. Some years, a little better and make the NCAAs. Some years, a little worse and be in the bottom four. That's fine.

Oh. My. Lord. Someone put away the sharp objects. I think Walshy just did a 360 ... just, wow ...

Look ahead ten years. What Hockey East teams do you think will have a less successful (in whatever respect you want) next ten years than Maine? Would you trade Maine's next 10 years straight up for Northeastern? UConn? Vermont? UMass? Merrimack? I think I would, for all of them. Maybe not UMass. But the rest, no question.

Honestly, Merrimack has hit their ceiling ... UMass is the same sad sack of a program it's always been, despite those "in the know" being constantly certain they are SO close to turning the corner ... UConn is just going to turn out to be the next UMass ... and Northeastern is always going to be dependent upon at least two (if not all 3) of the other Beanpot schools hitting a competitive downswing at the same time. None of these schools have ANY real history of success in their respective programs. Only UVM rings the bell over UMaine for me, and that's simply because they have a better location, and they're closer to better Canadian recruiting areas.

Come down off the ledge, please ... some of you folks are starting to scare me!!

 

[BassAle]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

You can do all of that at Orono.

I think multiple campuses is the right thing, but there is too much redundancy. AMC is right, each campus should have a focus, the smaller campuses need to be scaled back to only do one or two things and do them well. I think you could repeat high-demand majors at a couple schools, and of course lower level general education courses need to be duplicated. UMaine - engineering, science should be the focus with some duplicated 'in-demand' majors like nursing and business. USM: Business, performing arts should be the primary focus. Farmington: education. UMFK, UMPI, Machias - 2 out of 3 of those should probably just go away since distance education and the community college system could pick up a lot of the non-traditionals that can't pickup and relocate to UM or USM.

 

[AMC]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

Oh. My. Lord. Someone put away the sharp objects. I think Walshy just did a 360 ... just, wow ...

Honestly, Merrimack has hit their ceiling ... UMass is the same sad sack of a program it's always been, despite those "in the know" being constantly certain they are SO close to turning the corner ... UConn is just going to turn out to be the next UMass ... and Northeastern is always going to be dependent upon at least two (if not all 3) of the other Beanpot schools hitting a competitive downswing at the same time. None of these schools have ANY real history of success in their respective programs. Only UVM rings the bell over UMaine for me, and that's simply because they have a better location, and they're closer to better Canadian recruiting areas.

Come down off the ledge, please ... some of you folks are starting to scare me!!

Maine has a kid coming in next year that wasn't alive the last time Maine won a national title. That history is pretty ancient in hockey terms.

The campus in Orono is an absolute ****hole. I can't imagine going to visit it, or the Alfond, being from anywhere away and having any desire to go to school there if I had other options.

 

[BBDiehard14]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

I'm just saying that without a major, major financial investment there's no real striking reason to be a Maine Black Bear instead of a Colgate Raider or a Vermont Catamount or a Northern Michigan Wildcat. Maine puts out a few pros, but so do those types of school. Maine's facilities aren't going to knock anyone's socks off. Maine's campus is a decrepit pit if you aren't an engineer, so no big bonus points there. Academically, Maine is decent. So are lots of places.

And no, I don't want to give up and cut the hockey program. I want to cut the football program and pour its funding into hockey.

Unfortunately, football won't be cut so long as Cosgrove has any sort of presence on campus. But I do agree with you that UMaine should drop football and do it fast.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

Maine has a kid coming in next year that wasn't alive the last time Maine won a national title. That history is pretty ancient in hockey terms.

Young kid ... or I'm getting older faster than I thought.

Seriously though, I guess you probably can say the same thing about Lake State.

The campus in Orono is an absolute ****hole. I can't imagine going to visit it, or the Alfond, being from anywhere away and having any desire to go to school there if I had other options.

I hear the fishing is pretty good. And I'll take Orono/Bangor over Schenectady any day, too.

 

[BBDiehard14]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

Young kid ... or I'm getting older faster than I thought.

Seriously though, I guess you probably can say the same thing about Lake State.



I hear the fishing is pretty good. And I'll take Orono/Bangor over Schenectady any day, too.

That and the mean streets of Lowell, the River Hawks' recent success not withstanding

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

Unfortunately, football won't be cut so long as Cosgrove has any sort of presence on campus. But I do agree with you that UMaine should drop football and do it fast.

BB -and I'll say it again- Maine football is a much better program than is Maine hockey of late. (And I don't want to see either one cut.)

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

I hear the fishing is pretty good. And I'll take Orono/Bangor over Schenectady any day, too.

The fishing used to be excellent just across the road from my old dorm (the decrepit Corbett Hall). I realize that, as a fisherman, I will be accused of exaggeration, but I know of *somebody* who caught several smallmouths between there and Stillwater that exceeded 5 lbs., tons of smaller ones, and a 4 lb.+ rogue chub that was big enough to break the tip off my favorite fly rod before I subdued him... I turned down a free ride at Long Beach State to go to Maine to fish and hunt. And I have never regretted that decision.

(And yeah, Schenectady is quite possibly the Anus of the Northeast, Camden NJ and Seabrook NH being its only true rivals in that regard. Been there many times for work, and you just don't stop at lights in some neighborhoods, unless you want to buy crack or catch a stray round. Orono is perhaps a bit dull by some standards, but it's nice to walk the streets at night without looking out for anything worse than the odd bull moose in rut.)

 

[BBDiehard14]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

BB -and I'll say it again- Maine football is a much better program than is Maine hockey of late. (And I don't want to see either one cut.)

But football is a money purgatory. That money could be better spent on the hockey program. I won't hold my breath over Cosgrove doing a **** thing to help the hockey program.

 

[ck1969]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

It doesn't matter if they did eliminate football. That money wouldn't go to the hockey program. The inept administration would find a way to waste it somewhere else. I still say close Machias, Presque Isle, Augusta and Farmington. Sell off all the buildings and land and you would have millions in surplus revenue. Do a revamp at the Orono campus, increase the enrollment to 20K and boom problems solved. New sports facilities, new dorms, new classroom buildings. The potential is there to make Orono a premier school in the Northeast. They need the foresight and balls to do it. Not to mention the jobs it would create with the massive construction. With the expansion you could offer transfers to all the displaced employees from the closed campuses.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

And yeah, Schenectady is quite possibly the Anus of the Northeast, Camden NJ and Seabrook NH being its only true rivals in that regard. Been there many times for work, and you just don't stop at lights in some neighborhoods, unless you want to buy crack or catch a stray round. Orono is perhaps a bit dull by some standards, but it's nice to walk the streets at night without looking out for anything worse than the odd bull moose in rut.

Clearly you've somehow missed out on the *delightful* experience that is Bridgeport CT.

... and FWIW, Salisbury MA makes their cross-border neighbors in Seabrook NH look like Beverly Hills 90210 by comparison. Definitely calls into question the impact of the nuclear plant ... or just plain ol' incest? Close call ...

 

[rufus]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

You can't fix slow,

And yet, somehow, they're not positionally sound, either. You can compensate for a lack of talent by being in the right place at the right time. Expected at least that with Red's coaching, that and cutting down on the stupid penalties. Taking a penalty to save a goal, I can live with. The hitting from behinds and such are just intolerable.

 

[rufus]

Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater

In 18 games played Vesey has 2 goals and 2 assists.

And what have we got, 1 goal out of the entire freshman class? Yeah, the recruiting's better.

I can't believe this program would be this bad under Corkum.

 

[walrus]

And what have we got, 1 goal out of the entire freshman class? Yeah, the recruiting's better.

I can't believe this program would be this bad under Corkum.

I wonder but it's obvious corkum doesn't understand the politics involved with the position, I'm confident red does. I agree whatever red is teaching doesn't seem to be getting thru or the guys can't execute it or its just plain wrong?