USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
- Thread starter AMC
- Start date
- Status
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
The 2008 team had some genuine quality on it in Bishop, Ryan, Tyler, Sweetland, Duffy, and Hopson. This year's team doesn't have that but definitely has much better third and fourth lines along with better depth on defense. Looking back on it, 2008 was a very strange year. They had the quality players I mentioned but also had seven or eight guys who had no business playing D1 hockey. I believe the seven game losing streak they went on in February coincided with Ryan and Sweetland getting hurt or they probably would have finished fifth in the league.
Regardless of who the coach is it is going to take a few more years for Maine to be decent again. I don't think coaching has been the issue with either Red or Timmy, it is getting the talent. I like some of the guys Red has lined up the next few years but others obviously see it differently.
The 2008 team had some genuine quality on it in Bishop, Ryan, Tyler, Sweetland, Duffy, and Hopson. This year's team doesn't have that but definitely has much better third and fourth lines along with better depth on defense. Looking back on it, 2008 was a very strange year. They had the quality players I mentioned but also had seven or eight guys who had no business playing D1 hockey. I believe the seven game losing streak they went on in February coincided with Ryan and Sweetland getting hurt or they probably would have finished fifth in the league.
Regardless of who the coach is it is going to take a few more years for Maine to be decent again. I don't think coaching has been the issue with either Red or Timmy, it is getting the talent. I like some of the guys Red has lined up the next few years but others obviously see it differently.
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
IIRC Bish had a pretty rough first half that year and then stood on his head in February and March and during that stretch they couldnt find the net with a map and compass.
This is worse than I ever envisioned. Its a wreck.
IIRC Bish had a pretty rough first half that year and then stood on his head in February and March and during that stretch they couldnt find the net with a map and compass.
This is worse than I ever envisioned. Its a wreck.
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
It really is bad, I can't tell whats going on except lack of talent. I don't believe thats all of it though.
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
It's a 50/50 deal IMO. Lack of talent and coaching/recruiting.
It's a 50/50 deal IMO. Lack of talent and coaching/recruiting.
In 18 games played Vesey has 2 goals and 2 assists.
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Maybe some guys are made to be asst coaches and not head coaches?
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
Agreed. Another point I'd add would be the lack of "institutional success" in recent years, between the players AND the coaching staff. It's what I worry about with UNH gradually falling away from the top echelon of HE and D-1 overall. If you're up there and competing at those levels regularly, then your players and coaches know what's involved, and probably have a good idea on how to sustain it, while trying to press further up the competitive pyramid.
Once you get away from those things for a couple of years, then *maybe* you begin to lose track, both on and off (recruiting) the ice. Expectations (perhaps subconsciously?) begin to drop, your program's results drop, and you can't attract the same level of recruits you used to get. It's a vicious cycle. UNH had missed the final four of the HE Tourney for a few years not too long ago, but were eking their way into the NCAA's ... and now, having missed the last two NCAA's, they've had two decent runs in the HE Tourney to get to Boston to keep the program's profile (and momentum?) at least somewhere in the mix. And at least these last two seasons (with a promising start in Year Three this season) they've finished the HE RS pretty strongly. UNH now has to find a way to keep some late season relevancy this season to try to start a march back up the ranks. Coach Umile certainly comes with his flaws, but he's kept his program on the fringes of the mx even in his worst seasons. Frankly, he's surprised me that way, since his UNH mentor wasn't able to pull that trick off himself.
I think one of UMaine's problems now is the program has lost touch with ALL of that. None of the current UMaine players or coaches can point to any point in their current tenures where they've enjoyed success on even a modest level. Turning this around is going to be a huge ask, and will have to be rebuilt from the ground floor. The only guy I can think of who might logically be interested and willing is probably not attainable (Leaman). But if I was at UMaine and wanted to turn the program around in a way that energized the campus and community like the old days, I'd start exploring that possibility now, and be patient that it might take a few years for his window of opportunity/interest to open. BC eventually got around to hiring Coach York, so there is precedent.
Good luck, truly ... no one misses the ferocity and banter of the old UNH-UMaine rivalry than me.
Agreed. Another point I'd add would be the lack of "institutional success" in recent years, between the players AND the coaching staff. It's what I worry about with UNH gradually falling away from the top echelon of HE and D-1 overall. If you're up there and competing at those levels regularly, then your players and coaches know what's involved, and probably have a good idea on how to sustain it, while trying to press further up the competitive pyramid.
Once you get away from those things for a couple of years, then *maybe* you begin to lose track, both on and off (recruiting) the ice. Expectations (perhaps subconsciously?) begin to drop, your program's results drop, and you can't attract the same level of recruits you used to get. It's a vicious cycle. UNH had missed the final four of the HE Tourney for a few years not too long ago, but were eking their way into the NCAA's ... and now, having missed the last two NCAA's, they've had two decent runs in the HE Tourney to get to Boston to keep the program's profile (and momentum?) at least somewhere in the mix. And at least these last two seasons (with a promising start in Year Three this season) they've finished the HE RS pretty strongly. UNH now has to find a way to keep some late season relevancy this season to try to start a march back up the ranks. Coach Umile certainly comes with his flaws, but he's kept his program on the fringes of the mx even in his worst seasons. Frankly, he's surprised me that way, since his UNH mentor wasn't able to pull that trick off himself.
I think one of UMaine's problems now is the program has lost touch with ALL of that. None of the current UMaine players or coaches can point to any point in their current tenures where they've enjoyed success on even a modest level. Turning this around is going to be a huge ask, and will have to be rebuilt from the ground floor. The only guy I can think of who might logically be interested and willing is probably not attainable (Leaman). But if I was at UMaine and wanted to turn the program around in a way that energized the campus and community like the old days, I'd start exploring that possibility now, and be patient that it might take a few years for his window of opportunity/interest to open. BC eventually got around to hiring Coach York, so there is precedent.
Good luck, truly ... no one misses the ferocity and banter of the old UNH-UMaine rivalry than me.
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
Excellent post Chuck. You really hit on a lot of what I've been saying. And we all miss the rivalry. Not just with you guys but with all the old school battles. I don't think I'm a radical by saying a big change has to be made. There is nothing more in this world I love...aside form my children and family members ..than Maine hockey. It's killing me. Ugh!!!!
Agreed. Another point I'd add would be the lack of "institutional success" in recent years, between the players AND the coaching staff. It's what I worry about with UNH gradually falling away from the top echelon of HE and D-1 overall. If you're up there and competing at those levels regularly, then your players and coaches know what's involved, and probably have a good idea on how to sustain it, while trying to press further up the competitive pyramid.
Once you get away from those things for a couple of years, then *maybe* you begin to lose track, both on and off (recruiting) the ice. Expectations (perhaps subconsciously?) begin to drop, your program's results drop, and you can't attract the same level of recruits you used to get. It's a vicious cycle. UNH had missed the final four of the HE Tourney for a few years not too long ago, but were eking their way into the NCAA's ... and now, having missed the last two NCAA's, they've had two decent runs in the HE Tourney to get to Boston to keep the program's profile (and momentum?) at least somewhere in the mix. And at least these last two seasons (with a promising start in Year Three this season) they've finished the HE RS pretty strongly. UNH now has to find a way to keep some late season relevancy this season to try to start a march back up the ranks. Coach Umile certainly comes with his flaws, but he's kept his program on the fringes of the mx even in his worst seasons. Frankly, he's surprised me that way, since his UNH mentor wasn't able to pull that trick off himself.
I think one of UMaine's problems now is the program has lost touch with ALL of that. None of the current UMaine players or coaches can point to any point in their current tenures where they've enjoyed success on even a modest level. Turning this around is going to be a huge ask, and will have to be rebuilt from the ground floor. The only guy I can think of who might logically be interested and willing is probably not attainable (Leaman). But if I was at UMaine and wanted to turn the program around in a way that energized the campus and community like the old days, I'd start exploring that possibility now, and be patient that it might take a few years for his window of opportunity/interest to open. BC eventually got around to hiring Coach York, so there is precedent.
Good luck, truly ... no one misses the ferocity and banter of the old UNH-UMaine rivalry than me.
Excellent post Chuck. You really hit on a lot of what I've been saying. And we all miss the rivalry. Not just with you guys but with all the old school battles. I don't think I'm a radical by saying a big change has to be made. There is nothing more in this world I love...aside form my children and family members ..than Maine hockey. It's killing me. Ugh!!!!
Ma#1ne Hky
New member
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
Your last couple sentence's state pretty much how a lot of Maine Hockey Die-Hards feel about the Program and what Hockey is @ UMaine...hard to believe how much this program has sunk and with no relief in sight...frustrating/maddening...we ALL KNOW that there will never/ever be another Shawn Walsh...but at the same time it doesn't mean this Program has to be bad forever...there is someone out there that could and would take on this monster of a job to try and restore UMaine Hockey...but it's many-many things that have hurt this Program...the last three AD's/recruiting/lack of deep pocket Donors/season ticket holders...and not throwing Mr. Creech under the Bus here but he has NO KNOWLEGDE about the game of Hockey and what it means to the U and the Die-Hards all over Maine and the Alumni through out the US..he is a Basketball/Football person and you just don't turn on the switch and know hockey and see what happens when this Program is running on all cylinders...sadly...just look @ UML/Providence/and to some degree Merrimack...once those three schools brought in Hockey wise administrative people things started to change...UML with Norm Bazin,Providence with Nate Leaman and Merrimack with Dennehey...and all three improved there Arena's...UML turning it into more of a College Hockey venue instead of a AHL building, Providence has remodeled there Building along with Merrimack...positives there for sure...we can ONLY HOPE these days and that stinks to most.
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
I know a lot of others feel like I do. And that's a good thing. It's to the point now where something and something very different has to be done...see the definition of insanity!
Ma#1ne Hky
New member
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
...!!
Let The "MAINE HOCKEY DIE-HARD's" Brigade move on..!
...!!blackbearbandie
Registered User
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
"Goaltender commits to UMaine"
https://bangordailynews.com/link/goaltender-commits-to-umaine/
"Goaltender commits to UMaine"
https://bangordailynews.com/link/goaltender-commits-to-umaine/
AMC
Registered User
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
....with what money?
Maine needs SOMETHING to draw top recruits to Orono.
-Does Maine have a top echelon coach everyone wants to play for? Doesn't look like it.
-Does Maine have a top class, shiny facility that gets visiting recruits excited? Not anymore.
-Does Maine's campus have new dorms and academic buildings that could get a potential student excited? Not even close.
-Does Maine offer a world class education like Harvard or Yale? No.
If you are a top recruit right now, why are you picking Maine over any of a number of other schools? What's the sales pitch?
....with what money?
Maine needs SOMETHING to draw top recruits to Orono.
-Does Maine have a top echelon coach everyone wants to play for? Doesn't look like it.
-Does Maine have a top class, shiny facility that gets visiting recruits excited? Not anymore.
-Does Maine's campus have new dorms and academic buildings that could get a potential student excited? Not even close.
-Does Maine offer a world class education like Harvard or Yale? No.
If you are a top recruit right now, why are you picking Maine over any of a number of other schools? What's the sales pitch?
I would be interested in hearing Ben Hutton's thoughts on whether Red is a good coach or not. He has been a smashing success so far in Vancouver and the fans out there absolutely love him. Surely Red had something to do with that didn't he? Maine hasn't had a lot of team success in the last few years, obviously, but I think he has done a decent job at developing certain players. Renouf and Merchant are two other guys who have improved dramatically, and I think both will have long pro careers.
I think longer term Maine's big selling point will be it being a good place to develop. It also offers something different than other schools which will appeal to certain kids. If administration ever gets their act together and fills the place up again that would help a lot too. I'm not sure you want the kids whose only concern is how shiny all the facilities are.
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
Well you start with a young energetic smart hungry coach, and save 80-100K in salary.
Facility is mediocre but it still is one of the greatest atmospheres in college hockey when it's full and the team is doing well.
The kids coming to play hockey are looking towards a pro career for the most part. Facilities dorms etc don't carry that much weight.
Harvard or Yale? No. And not good examples as they are the top1% of the top1%. You can get a decent education at Maine. Plus a Bachelors degree is like a high school diploma was 20 years ago so who cares.
Do you think the school should just drop the program then if it has nothing to offer? If the program started to show progress and some success the big money donors would come back. Then you'd get your new rink.
Well you start with a young energetic smart hungry coach, and save 80-100K in salary.
Facility is mediocre but it still is one of the greatest atmospheres in college hockey when it's full and the team is doing well.
The kids coming to play hockey are looking towards a pro career for the most part. Facilities dorms etc don't carry that much weight.
Harvard or Yale? No. And not good examples as they are the top1% of the top1%. You can get a decent education at Maine. Plus a Bachelors degree is like a high school diploma was 20 years ago so who cares.
Do you think the school should just drop the program then if it has nothing to offer? If the program started to show progress and some success the big money donors would come back. Then you'd get your new rink.
AMC
Registered User
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
I'm just saying that without a major, major financial investment there's no real striking reason to be a Maine Black Bear instead of a Colgate Raider or a Vermont Catamount or a Northern Michigan Wildcat. Maine puts out a few pros, but so do those types of school. Maine's facilities aren't going to knock anyone's socks off. Maine's campus is a decrepit pit if you aren't an engineer, so no big bonus points there. Academically, Maine is decent. So are lots of places.
And no, I don't want to give up and cut the hockey program. I want to cut the football program and pour its funding into hockey.
I'm just saying that without a major, major financial investment there's no real striking reason to be a Maine Black Bear instead of a Colgate Raider or a Vermont Catamount or a Northern Michigan Wildcat. Maine puts out a few pros, but so do those types of school. Maine's facilities aren't going to knock anyone's socks off. Maine's campus is a decrepit pit if you aren't an engineer, so no big bonus points there. Academically, Maine is decent. So are lots of places.
And no, I don't want to give up and cut the hockey program. I want to cut the football program and pour its funding into hockey.
Re: Maine Hockey: Summer 2015 on the Stillwater
I get it and pretty much agree with you. It was the same deal right before Semler left and Shawn took over. Look at the money that poured in once the success came. Not saying we can ever find another Shawn Walsh but it's worth taking a chance on some young assistant and maybe catch lightening in a bottle again. The rest would follow. At this point the program is just about beyond saving. It's a vicious cycle and like I said before they can do nothing and stay the course and watch the corpse rot or make a change.
- Status