LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

[Flem Of The North]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

Flem of the North....order me what you are drinking .

I'm drinking 4th place and a bid into the NCAA Tournament if it started today and CCHA Coach of the Year Jim Roque.

 

[Hockeyintheblood]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

Not surprised that Ravn didn't play. Roque didn't want to address the question when Crawford asked, which is not surprising either.
Anyway, they rang the bell, so everybody can be happy and look forward to a promising weekend

I am not surprised Ravn or Murdock didn't play in this game as I am sure Roque wanted the win since this team had played several NCAA teams and I am sure he wants to keep the ratings up. If they finish the second half with good results it will improve future recruiting. K2 is the Rock that Roque has built the team on starting last season. Pun intended. IMOO. Also he did give Murdock the start out east which is awesome for Murdock, wonder how they thought he played? Anyways have four tickets to Fridays game and am looking forward to it.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

I'm drinking 4th place and a bid into the NCAA Tournament if it started today and CCHA Coach of the Year Jim Roque.

The other side of the coin is that the schedule is tough from here on out and they haven't put together two solid games in one series since Miami in late October. Much too early to start talking about the NCAA tournament or CCHA Coach of the Year. By the end of this month, we'll have a somewhat better idea of how they are faring in terms of team goals. It's nice they are doing well but they still have to prove they can do it over an entire season.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

Not surprised that Ravn didn't play. Roque didn't want to address the question when Crawford asked, which is not surprising either.
Anyway, they rang the bell, so everybody can be happy and look forward to a promising weekend

It's kind of like Roque is ignoring him and hoping he'll go away. I don't know what happened after they recruited Ravn, but my impression is that Roque changed his mind about Ravn as a Lakers goalie but didn't tell him up front that maybe he should look elsewhere to play. That's taking nothing away from Kapalka, who has played very well for the Lakers, but Ravn has never been given a chance to show what he can do, even as a backup goalie.

 

[LSSULaker889294]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

Hopefully Ravn will get his chance next year if Kapalka leaves early for the pros.

 

[soofan]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

Hopefully Ravn will get his chance next year if Kapalka leaves early for the pros.

I don't see any of those events happening.
It takes a lot to go pro as sophomore, and regarding Ravn, it seems to me Roque is just having a power trip. They had the same credentials before arriving at LSSU.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

I don't see any of those events happening.
It takes a lot to go pro as sophomore, and regarding Ravn, it seems to me Roque is just having a power trip. They had the same credentials before arriving at LSSU.

Even if Kapalka does leave for the pros after this season, they will bring in Marble next season and there's no telling who will be the #1, #2 and #3 goalies. If Kapalka stays, they may ask Marble to play one more year in Juniors.

 

[DopeyBaker]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

I don't see any of those events happening.
It takes a lot to go pro as sophomore, and regarding Ravn, it seems to me Roque is just having a power trip. They had the same credentials before arriving at LSSU.

By power trip, you mean Roque is playing the goalie that gives the team the best chance of winning? What is this coach thinking?

 

[soofan]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

By power trip, you mean Roque is playing the goalie that gives the team the best chance of winning? What is this coach thinking?

Come on, don't be so stupid ... probably just because TS made a comment.

This was an exhibition game. Roque lured him down to lssu and has been messing around with him since then, although he was a top goalie in junior, and then praised by Roque during his visit on campus.
From what I have read here and heard from teammates, I understand he has an excellent reputation as hard worker and team person.

Showing a bit of recognition at no cost/risk would only be standard coaching practice and it is almost certain that the whole team expected it.
Not doing so is a very bad message to the rest of the team, and highly questionable.

Frankly, it has to be either a nasty trick or really poor coaching ... probably both.

I may be alone thinking so on this forum (I hope not), but that's my thinking.

 

[soofan]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

This young man isn't the first to go through this at your little college the past five years.

The Truth Is Out There.....
TBA

I don't know about that.
I was just incidentally there when Ravn visited the school with Roque, and he was described as a great goaltender.
I think that when the coach himself is disrespectful, it is tough for the players to be dedicated.

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

By power trip, you mean Roque is playing the goalie that gives the team the best chance of winning? What is this coach thinking?

Amen.

Read the stories about every recruit, at every D-I school, and you will see biographies extolling excellence. A player doesn't get recruited because they are not good players. And a player doesn't get recruited to sit on the bench. But in D-I sports, players sit on the bench, or in the stands during games. These were excellent Junior players, who have probably been the best players on their respective teams their whole lives. But at each level of hockey, the competition picks up. As a kid, I was a top-two defenseman. As I moved into midgets, I was a top-four defenseman. In Juniors, I was a top-seven defenseman. In my playing days, I saw so many goalies parents and family, and the goalies themselves, become so confused as to their lack of playing time. More than any other position, the competition for golaie is tough. And the loser, or the lesser player, ends up sitting all game. Even a fourth line forward feels as though they can contribute. Not so with goalies.

Furthermore, goalies didn't get to be picked for certain teams merely because they are nice guys. Generally, they dominated in their previous league at their previous level.

In college hockey, it gets a little trickier because there are grades and classes involved.

So one young player sits, and I can't even believe, for the life of me, why anyone on this boad, or in the LSSU family, cares. Kapalka is a top D-I goalie who is so good that its a real possiblity that he could go pro at the end of the year. And the team is ranked nationally, in the home-playoff spot in the conference, and finally playing meaningful games in the second half of the season . . . . and there are actual tears of rage and frustration being spilled for a 3rd string goalie? Come on, people -- give it a rest. Do any of you see him in practice? In the wieght room? Do you know his grades? Know his attitude?

You can carp about Roque all day and night, but I can't understand the silliness -- absurd silliness -- of complaining that the coach doesn't play a third-string underclassmen goalie. That is, without a doubt, the silliest complaint about a coach I've ever heard.

Now -- as for the educational portion of my rant: Advice to athletes in college who complain about playing time: GROW UP. Life isn't free. Life is not fair. Good people lose. Bad people win. You will learn this lesson one way or another. Frankly, there isn't a better way to learn about life's nasty twists than sitting in college playing hockey every day. Does the young goaltender feel bad? Yes -- they ALWAYS do. From Pee-Wee to the NHL, backup goalies are always -- ALWAYS -- convicnced that if they could just get a shot, they would prove their worth. Every upper-level hockey team at every age group, all over the world, has at least two goalies. One plays. One sits. And in my whole life in hockey, I have rarely seen a young goalie happy about sitting.

Oftentimes, the goalie's mommy and daddy scream bloody murder. The goalie says the "coach is mean." This happens in PeeWee, it happens in D-I. I am sorry if you have been told you are the next Ken Dryden. Chances are you are not even the next Blaine Lacher. Chances are good you are not even good enough to start, and you will spend your career at LSSU as a backup. Its called depth. And although you've spent your whole life as the best goalie . . . in the end reality and life always have the last word.

 

[Laker54]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

By power trip, you mean Roque is playing the goalie that gives the team the best chance of winning? What is this coach thinking?

While I am not a Roque fan; I expect a coach to put the best goalie in net to win games. If K2 was a bad goalie I could understand wanting a different goalie. BUT LET'S GET REAL K2 IS ONE OF THE TOP GOALIES IN THE COUNTRY! Anyone should only expect the coach to put the best players on the ice each and every night. Is there a problem with having strong back up goalies? Not to my way of thinking. Their time will come.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

Amen.

Read the stories about every recruit, at every D-I school, and you will see biographies extolling excellence. A player doesn't get recruited because they are not good players. And a player doesn't get recruited to sit on the bench. But in D-I sports, players sit on the bench, or in the stands during games. These were excellent Junior players, who have probably been the best players on their respective teams their whole lives. But at each level of hockey, the competition picks up. As a kid, I was a top-two defenseman. As I moved into midgets, I was a top-four defenseman. In Juniors, I was a top-seven defenseman. In my playing days, I saw so many goalies parents and family, and the goalies themselves, become so confused as to their lack of playing time. More than any other position, the competition for golaie is tough. And the loser, or the lesser player, ends up sitting all game. Even a fourth line forward feels as though they can contribute. Not so with goalies.

Furthermore, goalies didn't get to be picked for certain teams merely because they are nice guys. Generally, they dominated in their previous league at their previous level.

In college hockey, it gets a little trickier because there are grades and classes involved.

So one young player sits, and I can't even believe, for the life of me, why anyone on this boad, or in the LSSU family, cares. Kapalka is a top D-I goalie who is so good that its a real possiblity that he could go pro at the end of the year. And the team is ranked nationally, in the home-playoff spot in the conference, and finally playing meaningful games in the second half of the season . . . . and there are actual tears of rage and frustration being spilled for a 3rd string goalie? Come on, people -- give it a rest. Do any of you see him in practice? In the wieght room? Do you know his grades? Know his attitude?

You can carp about Roque all day and night, but I can't understand the silliness -- absurd silliness -- of complaining that the coach doesn't play a third-string underclassmen goalie. That is, without a doubt, the silliest complaint about a coach I've ever heard.

Now -- as for the educational portion of my rant: Advise to athletes in college who complain about playing time: GROW UP. Life isn't free. Life is not fair. Good people lose. Bad people win. You will learn this lesson one way or another. Frankly, there isn't a better way to learn about life's nasty twists. Does the young goaltender feel bad? Yes -- they ALWAYS do. From Pee-Wee to the NHL, backup goalies are always -- ALWAYS -- convicnced that if they could just get a shot, they would prove their worth. Every upper-level hockey team at every age group, all over the world, has at least two goalies. One plays. One sits. And in my whole life in hockey, I have rarely seen a young goalie happy about sitting.

Oftentimes, the goalie's mommy and daddy scream bloody murder. The goalie says the "coach is mean." This happens in PeeWee, it happens in D-I.

Much of what you say is true, but you're missing the main point. Pretty much everyone carries 3 goalies in college these days. The Lakers obviously don't have the hockey budget of most Div 1 schools and they don't spend much effort trying to recruit their #3 goalie. Their #3 guy typically isn't a top goalie at the Junior A level. Soofan and I believe Ravn was recruited as a #1 or #2 goalie. His credentials were just as good as Kapalka's. We're not complaining about Kapalka being the #1 guy. But Ravn has never been given a chance to see what he can do even as a backup Laker goalie. Outside of a couple of exhibition games last season, he's seen no playing time. Sure he was thrown in for the 3rd period of a game at Miami last season when the Lakers were getting pounded, but he's never played a full Div 1 game. My contention is that Roque changed his mind about Ravn's role as a Laker #1/2 goalie at some point; I suspect it was even before the start of last season, otherwise why would he have even brought in Kapalka with BMW and Ravn already in the fold. I don't know what his reasons were. Maybe he felt that once they got a commitment from Kapallka, he was going to be the guy and he had more potential than Ravn. Maybe taking Kapalka was a package deal as part of getting Campbell and that left Ravn as the odd man out. Maybe there is something else to it than that. I don't know. I don't have any problem with Roque mainly going with a #1 guy, in this case Kapalka who has certainly turned out to be an excellent goalie for the Lakers. But it seems obvious that he doesn't even view Ravn as the main backup to Kapalka, otherwise he wouldn't have brought in Murdock this season. With Roque's change of mind about Ravn's role, I think the fair thing to do would have been for Roque to tell Ravn up front (before last season) that he would be better off looking elsewhere to pay college hockey. Being a #2 or #3 goalie probably never seems fair to the guys who fill those roles, but part of fairness is at least giving a guy a chance to see what he can do and soofan and I don't believe Roque has given Ravn that fair chance. That's the main point. Roque could easily have played Ravn in a non-conference game or two last season or this, but he hasn't even done that.

 

[sm2pk]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

I think Roque was hoping Ravn just left school when he brought in Murdock. They have Marble recruited for next year and that puts 4 goalies on the roster. Someone is playing games with someone .

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

Oh I don't know. Perhaps the kids is a horse-crap goalie in practice or maybe his juniors skills just have not translated when he made the jump? Maybe he WAS told that he can stay on, but there was no palying time likely -- and he decided to stay rather than transfer or quit? Personally for me it barely moves the meter vis-a-vis allegedly offensive conduct by a head coach. My point was this: Kids get recruited all the time who just never get a chance -- for one reason or another. I bet there is a "Ravn Story" probably with every single D-I team in the NCAA.

People can have issues with the coach all they want. But being critical of a coach because of the playing time of a third-string goalie is not a valid complaint. (In my opinion). This is not about mind games, or screwing kids over, or lying, or cheating. This is how competative sports works. Guess what? The fourth-string QB at Alabama was probably a top-flight high school star who was promised -- if he came to Alabama -- he would have a chance to start. Likely as not, this kid won't even DRESS for most games and might spend four years at the school never taking a single snap. Is the coach messing with his head and playing mind-games? No.

Here is the story, short and sweet: If you want to play D-I sports, there is going to be at least two or three equally excellent players trying to take your spot just from your own team. Another 10-15 kids are being constantly recruited, sitting in the wings, and ready to arrive on campus every Fall with an equal desire to take your spot.


My first weeks of training camp (many, many, many years ago) in juniors, I was struggling with the speed and size of the players. And one of the coaches said to me -- words that I carry always -- "Nobody is forcing you to be here, and there are over 1,000 players in Junior A who will take your spot in less than 10 seconds." Meaning: This is competition. Nobody is forcing you to subject yourself to this situation. Nothing is promised, in reality, including a spot on the team.

I guess I would have some sympathy if Kapalka was struggling. But we have possible one of the best NCAA goalies, so it all seems silly.

Should the coach play the backups in holiday NC games? Only if the coach feels a player has earned the ice time. Nothing should be given. This isn't Rudy. I want LSSU to win, every game. I want the best line-up on the ice every game. They are going to need every percentage point to get into the NCAA's. The loss to RIT hurt, for that exact reason. Beat Vermont was great, but then the loss offset the PWR bonus they had gained.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for any players. They don't have to be here. They can transfer to D-III without skipping a year and play all day long. I give the kid credit for sticking around this year. But unless he starts thoroughly outplaying Kapalka in practice, I am MORE than satisfied with the current work being done by the coaching staff regarding the LSSU goalie situation.

 

[soofan]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

!!!
Sorry about that.
I was sharing my own small and partial experience, not about about a person, but about a practice.
I didn't mean to cause bickering about someone who certainly doesn't deserve it.
I am not even a truly involved hockey fan and not as knowledgeable as most of you. I am just being curious about how things work out for all Lakers teams.
The other teams don't have national ambitions ... or dreams, and much less at stake.

From talking to many coaches I gather that team spirit implies loyalty and respect, and you have to walk the talk.
Listening and reading a bit about the performances over the last 5 years, I thought it made sense to consider that the coaching is ineffective.

I was probably wrong as you are having a tremendous season right now and cheering for the coach of the year, and Div.1 hockey is no doubt very different from minor team sports.

 

[Flem Of The North]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

I was probably wrong as you are having a tremendous season right now and cheering for the coach of the year, and Div.1 hockey is no doubt very different from minor team sports.

You got that right we are. Hey Theresa Truth Squad Sellers? Sm2pk? when are you going to join the party and become true Laker and Jim Roque fans?

 

[backbencher]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

Cool down gents, this is getting a bit too much gossip.

Interesting to see how some people have so much crap to say about someone's attitude and talent while admitting that they don't know. I know this a fans forum, but here is some uplifting read.
"it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt". Abraham Lincoln.

If those who don't think like Flem of the North or Lakerblue are bloody idiots, Abraham Lincoln is one of us.
"I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true.
I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have.
I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong."

The good news is that respecting values brings success and reputation.

If your boss screws your colleague, you won't care; but how long will you trust your boss ?
If you don't trust your boss, how far are you ready to go for him ?

When lakerblue was still dreaming about a bright future, rude, sly and opportunist coaches had a chance to make it. Some could even be successful. Not anymore, many things have changed (not only ).

Nowadays, young educated coaches make it to the NHL in a few years outclassing the old school because human skills outweigh basic hockey knowledge (or indeed alumni status), and authority is achieved through credibility and leadership rather that fear and manipulation.

Taking care of each player does not mean baby-sitting but setting individual goals, explaining, building self confidence and helping development ... and cutting (only) if the player does not contribute.
Practices must be creative and adjusted to the needs.
Communicate, teach and grow, cannot be replaced by manipulate, cheat and cut. One good season in a long career won't prove it wrong.

lakerblue is right : Some just can't adjust. What applies to players also applies to coaches.

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

My point: If you want to dislike Coach Jim Roque, go ahead. Complain about his strategy. Complain about his inability to coax more goals from his offense. Complain about his W-L record.

If you have an ax to grind against the coach -- my point is this: Playing time for a third string goalie is not the hill you want to attack.

Personally, I am neither a Roque-hater nor a Roque cheerleader. I want LSSU to win, every game, every season. The first and only time I found myself deeply disliking a head coach was Scott Borek, who I felt was over his head. I don't feel Coach Roque is over his head. And if his coaching style is to play the best palyers on his roster, every game, and try to squeeze wins from every game, no matter the time nor place nor opponent, I am personally fine with that. I don't beleive for one small second that the morale of the team is negatively impacted by the personal feelings of a third string goalie.

 

[lakerfan133]

Re: LSSU Hockey 2011-2012

Lakers played unexpectedly well tonight, clean up a few small mental errors and we would have won