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L V C Hockey Program Is Over
- Thread starter ICEKING
- Start date
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
That's actually one of the biggest myths ever created. Lebanon Valley's last year in the NE was in 2003-04. They hosted a first round playoff game: http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0304/boxes/mlvcsuf1.f28. The Northeast went to a pre-determined site for a semifinal/final (Matthews Arena), which was decided long before LVC finished second in the NE regular season that year.
Not sure about that one, either. The 1997-98 season was the last season of the old North/Central/South league. The league alignment was as follows:
NORTH: Fitchburg State, Johnson & Wales (first-year program), Worcester State, Plymouth State, Framingham State, Curry, Nichols, Roger Williams, Salve Regina (first-year program).
CENTRAL: St. Michael's, UMass Dartmouth, Bentley, Southern New Hampshire (then NH College), Assumption, Tufts, Suffolk, Stonehill
SOUTH: Wentworth, Skidmore, Iona, Villanova, Western New England, Fairfield, Quinnipiac, Sacred Heart
Bentley, Quinnipiac, Fairfield, Iona, and Sacred Heart all went D-I starting with the 1998-99 season; Villanova and Roger Williams dropped hockey. Skidmore moved to the East.
The 1998-99 season was the first season of the Northeast, with the league lineup as follows: UMass Dartmouth, Fitchburg State, St. Michael's, Wentworth, Southern NH, Worcester State, Johnson & Wales, Framingham State, Assumption, Plymouth State, Tufts, Curry, Nichols, Suffolk, Western New England, Stonehill, Lebanon Valley, Salve Regina
Southern NH and St. Mike's played each other in the final Division II National Championship game that year.
St. Michael's and Tufts continued to play in the Northeast until the end of the 2000-01. Tufts actually was the #1 seed for the 2001 tournament, but was upset by Salve Regina in the first round. LVC won the league, beating Wentworth at Wentworth. St. Michael's began play in the ECAC East in 2001-02 (http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0102/schedules/stmm), while Tufts began playing in the NESCAC for hockey in 01-02.
That's actually one of the biggest myths ever created. Lebanon Valley's last year in the NE was in 2003-04. They hosted a first round playoff game: http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0304/boxes/mlvcsuf1.f28. The Northeast went to a pre-determined site for a semifinal/final (Matthews Arena), which was decided long before LVC finished second in the NE regular season that year.
Not sure about that one, either. The 1997-98 season was the last season of the old North/Central/South league. The league alignment was as follows:
NORTH: Fitchburg State, Johnson & Wales (first-year program), Worcester State, Plymouth State, Framingham State, Curry, Nichols, Roger Williams, Salve Regina (first-year program).
CENTRAL: St. Michael's, UMass Dartmouth, Bentley, Southern New Hampshire (then NH College), Assumption, Tufts, Suffolk, Stonehill
SOUTH: Wentworth, Skidmore, Iona, Villanova, Western New England, Fairfield, Quinnipiac, Sacred Heart
Bentley, Quinnipiac, Fairfield, Iona, and Sacred Heart all went D-I starting with the 1998-99 season; Villanova and Roger Williams dropped hockey. Skidmore moved to the East.
The 1998-99 season was the first season of the Northeast, with the league lineup as follows: UMass Dartmouth, Fitchburg State, St. Michael's, Wentworth, Southern NH, Worcester State, Johnson & Wales, Framingham State, Assumption, Plymouth State, Tufts, Curry, Nichols, Suffolk, Western New England, Stonehill, Lebanon Valley, Salve Regina
Southern NH and St. Mike's played each other in the final Division II National Championship game that year.
St. Michael's and Tufts continued to play in the Northeast until the end of the 2000-01. Tufts actually was the #1 seed for the 2001 tournament, but was upset by Salve Regina in the first round. LVC won the league, beating Wentworth at Wentworth. St. Michael's began play in the ECAC East in 2001-02 (http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0102/schedules/stmm), while Tufts began playing in the NESCAC for hockey in 01-02.
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
Thanks for the information
From Someone whom should Know
Thanks for the information
From Someone whom should Know
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
I defer to your knowledge regarding the LVC playoff rule - I had read that (probably on here - perhaps there was a threat to do that if they stayed in) I know that travel was the issue, and LVC didn't seem to want to go. I recall a lot of chatter about travel being an issue with St. Mike's, and a reason given that Castleton wouldn't have the choice of going to the NE when they started up. Again, I'm repeating the chatter on the board, which as I recall was from credible sources.
I defer to your knowledge regarding the LVC playoff rule - I had read that (probably on here - perhaps there was a threat to do that if they stayed in) I know that travel was the issue, and LVC didn't seem to want to go. I recall a lot of chatter about travel being an issue with St. Mike's, and a reason given that Castleton wouldn't have the choice of going to the NE when they started up. Again, I'm repeating the chatter on the board, which as I recall was from credible sources.
Matthew Webb
Whiner.
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
NCHA is fine as the rule only applies to transfers from one NCHA school to another.
NCHA is fine as the rule only applies to transfers from one NCHA school to another.
Warren Thompson
Registered User
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
How could Villanova, a D1 school in all other sports, have played D3 ice hockey? I must be missing something here.
How could Villanova, a D1 school in all other sports, have played D3 ice hockey? I must be missing something here.
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
Short answer: because a lot of schools were playing hockey before the ncaa ever existed.
http://www.augenblick.org/chha/info_cls.htmlHow could Villanova, a D1 school in all other sports, have played D3 ice hockey? I must be missing something here.
Short answer: because a lot of schools were playing hockey before the ncaa ever existed.
collegehcky2
Vinegar Strokes
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
From Scott Biggar's column it would seem the ECAC is being proactive in adding hockey programs, but the economic times and expense of a hockey team has a lot of schools unwilling to bump their club programs up to NCAA. Hopefully some of the schools that already fund their programs will at least discuss becoming full-fledged D-III programs.
From Scott Biggar's column it would seem the ECAC is being proactive in adding hockey programs, but the economic times and expense of a hockey team has a lot of schools unwilling to bump their club programs up to NCAA. Hopefully some of the schools that already fund their programs will at least discuss becoming full-fledged D-III programs.
Warren Thompson
Registered User
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
OK, but I'm still a bit ferhoodled. I went to that Website above and found the following: "Connecticut is a Division 1 school that formerly played Division 1 hockey on the Division 3 level." QUESTION: how on earth do you play D1 hockey on the D3 level?
OK, but I'm still a bit ferhoodled. I went to that Website above and found the following: "Connecticut is a Division 1 school that formerly played Division 1 hockey on the Division 3 level." QUESTION: how on earth do you play D1 hockey on the D3 level?
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
Classified as D1 by the NCAA - playing at the DIII level.
Classified as D1 by the NCAA - playing at the DIII level.
elbojpb
Well-known member
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
elbo
Agree -- who? I don't think there is anyone out there willing or able to reclassify.
And for the players willing to transfer (and I talked to somebody who said their son was looking), who is going after somebody from a program that was 0-50? They're ticked right now and the emotions are up, but after cooler heads prevail, they may realize that since none of them are playing pro after graduation, that may be better to be a big fish in a smaller pond than shark food in the ocean.
elbo
Agree -- who? I don't think there is anyone out there willing or able to reclassify.
And for the players willing to transfer (and I talked to somebody who said their son was looking), who is going after somebody from a program that was 0-50? They're ticked right now and the emotions are up, but after cooler heads prevail, they may realize that since none of them are playing pro after graduation, that may be better to be a big fish in a smaller pond than shark food in the ocean.
WNYHOCKEY66
Registered User
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
Ive heard of 2 players from LVC looking to transfer to other ACHA D1 teams. That does not bode well for a team that WILL be playing ACHA D1 schools...
I hope it works out for all players and they can play hockey and get a degree!
Ive heard of 2 players from LVC looking to transfer to other ACHA D1 teams. That does not bode well for a team that WILL be playing ACHA D1 schools...
I hope it works out for all players and they can play hockey and get a degree!
cooperalls
Registered User
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
Technically from what I understand that Scranton is still an NCAA Independent that chooses to play in the ACHA they have to still follow all of NCAA div. III rules and regulations can only play 25 games per year.
Now I am curious if that is what Lebanon Valley is going to do since it seems like the Athletic Department is going to fund it from the President's message. Which mean they would technically still be an NCAA Div. III Independent just competing in the ACHA. If they are still considered NCAA Div. III Independents (Leb. Valley and Scranton) the other question is what if the ECAC West was able to keep them as Affiliate members that never played any games unless they agreed to to play a few would that give them the 7 for the AQ? Also if they are still considered an NCAA Div. III Independent do they still count towards the ratio????
Technically from what I understand that Scranton is still an NCAA Independent that chooses to play in the ACHA they have to still follow all of NCAA div. III rules and regulations can only play 25 games per year.
Now I am curious if that is what Lebanon Valley is going to do since it seems like the Athletic Department is going to fund it from the President's message. Which mean they would technically still be an NCAA Div. III Independent just competing in the ACHA. If they are still considered NCAA Div. III Independents (Leb. Valley and Scranton) the other question is what if the ECAC West was able to keep them as Affiliate members that never played any games unless they agreed to to play a few would that give them the 7 for the AQ? Also if they are still considered an NCAA Div. III Independent do they still count towards the ratio????
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
Adding to the answers above...
Once up a time (up until the mid-90's) the NCAA was less strict about the divisional classifications in sports like hockey and lacrosse, and you had a fair amount of crossover play. Many of the weaker D1 hockey programs played almost exclusively D2/D3 schedules as D-1 independents, not affiliated with conferences. Some of the independents included Air Force, Army, the Alaska teams, Holy Cross, Fairfield and Notre Dame.*
* Little known fact - Notre Dame actually dropped its hockey program to club status for one season (1983-84) after leaving the CCHA, then played as a D-1 independent for several seasons until returning to the CCHA in 1992.
In addition to the D-1 independents (who staged their own separate, unsanctioned championship), there were also several programs that were classified as D3 for hockey only, and played in the ECAC. Along with the aforementioned Villanova, a few examples of teams in this category were UConn, Canisius, and Iona. Was it confusing at times? Yeah, a bit. But it was also fun as hell, and mostly you just worried about playing against the team lined up across from you, not whether they were eligible for your division championship or not. Also, D3 teams got to occasionally experience great road trips like to Colorado Springs or Alaska, something that would never happen in the current cost-cutting era.
Of course, the NCAA put a stop to this by mandating that schools could not "play down" in a particular sport (and could only "play up" to D1 if grandfathered in), which led to the formation of the MAAC as a home for many of the previous D3 and D1 Independent programs. One could also say that it indirectly led to a few of the schools dropping hockey over the next several years (particularly Iona and Fairfield) when they decided they were unable to compete at the D1 level.
Adding to the answers above...
Once up a time (up until the mid-90's) the NCAA was less strict about the divisional classifications in sports like hockey and lacrosse, and you had a fair amount of crossover play. Many of the weaker D1 hockey programs played almost exclusively D2/D3 schedules as D-1 independents, not affiliated with conferences. Some of the independents included Air Force, Army, the Alaska teams, Holy Cross, Fairfield and Notre Dame.*
* Little known fact - Notre Dame actually dropped its hockey program to club status for one season (1983-84) after leaving the CCHA, then played as a D-1 independent for several seasons until returning to the CCHA in 1992.
In addition to the D-1 independents (who staged their own separate, unsanctioned championship), there were also several programs that were classified as D3 for hockey only, and played in the ECAC. Along with the aforementioned Villanova, a few examples of teams in this category were UConn, Canisius, and Iona. Was it confusing at times? Yeah, a bit. But it was also fun as hell, and mostly you just worried about playing against the team lined up across from you, not whether they were eligible for your division championship or not. Also, D3 teams got to occasionally experience great road trips like to Colorado Springs or Alaska, something that would never happen in the current cost-cutting era.
Of course, the NCAA put a stop to this by mandating that schools could not "play down" in a particular sport (and could only "play up" to D1 if grandfathered in), which led to the formation of the MAAC as a home for many of the previous D3 and D1 Independent programs. One could also say that it indirectly led to a few of the schools dropping hockey over the next several years (particularly Iona and Fairfield) when they decided they were unable to compete at the D1 level.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
Good post.
Also, some of those teams made trips to D-III schools. I remember Elmira hosting Alaska-Fairbanks and Alabama-Huntsville in the early 90's...man those were fun years. Wish I understood everything more back then...but sa da tay...I was still in grade school for those years.
Good post.
Also, some of those teams made trips to D-III schools. I remember Elmira hosting Alaska-Fairbanks and Alabama-Huntsville in the early 90's...man those were fun years. Wish I understood everything more back then...but sa da tay...I was still in grade school for those years.
Re: L V C Hockey Program Is Over
In reading the ACHA Meeting minutes thoughout the years, there have been attempts by various schools to bring the ACHA more in compliance with the NCAA (such as ending the spring try-out for incoming freshman and limiting the game count to the NCAA Divisional limits), but these were voted down. They run it close to the NCAA, but have enough quirks to be different.
Joining the ACHA is not the end of the world. When Penn State came to Salem St last year for the Christmas Tournament, many of the SSC players thought they'd have a cakewalk because they were playing a "club" team. A few knew better. Final score -- Salem State 2-1 and it took a shorty late in the 3rd to get there. LVC should be competitive within the A-1 world. They're not going to win the national tournament right off the bat, but they'll have more success on the ice than they are currently experiencing.
They'll get games - just for the opposition to play at the HPA. To fill out the schedule, why not be the 4th team in an ECAC-NE tournament? URI on occasion has done that and done quite well.
Penn State's ACHA-1 (A-1) program is also fully funded through the athletic department (IMO a lot better than some D-III schools!!). As a club sport they are not bound to any NCAA regulations, but follow the ACHA Handbook. I am going to assume (that word again!) that LVC will do the same thing.
In reading the ACHA Meeting minutes thoughout the years, there have been attempts by various schools to bring the ACHA more in compliance with the NCAA (such as ending the spring try-out for incoming freshman and limiting the game count to the NCAA Divisional limits), but these were voted down. They run it close to the NCAA, but have enough quirks to be different.
Joining the ACHA is not the end of the world. When Penn State came to Salem St last year for the Christmas Tournament, many of the SSC players thought they'd have a cakewalk because they were playing a "club" team. A few knew better. Final score -- Salem State 2-1 and it took a shorty late in the 3rd to get there. LVC should be competitive within the A-1 world. They're not going to win the national tournament right off the bat, but they'll have more success on the ice than they are currently experiencing.
They'll get games - just for the opposition to play at the HPA. To fill out the schedule, why not be the 4th team in an ECAC-NE tournament? URI on occasion has done that and done quite well.